Dogs' NF Carto Mod (KR8 Atty)(510 vertical atty)

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Vaporer

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Away..
As far as cartomizers, tnx for all the replies.
I'd like to have at least 2-3ea of the same type.
A lot can be learned from more than just one and sometimes things happen on the 1st tear down that can be avoided on the "extra".

I saw your post in the Ask the Vet area. According to rule # 2 only Vets may answer.
"2. Any ECF Vet can answer it. We may also ask an expert on that topic who is not a Vet as yet, to assist."
 

Katya

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Vaporer

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Katya,
Some good info and pics from the link you posted. Thanks. I can see now that there are gonna be as many or more styles of cartomizers than attys. Anyone offering to send any, Only 808(901 threads) or 510 will be of much help as that's all I can connect to. unless they make one for an 801. I don't have a 4081 or an adapter to anything I own.

The pics and links I found showed 2 styles. One had a solid type wrap(sock) and one pic of a new tear down showed holes in the coil area. That was what I was wondering abt. Was the large black hole actually all burnt material or a blackened edge of a pre-cut hole. Then there are the "long hair" type from the link ScottBee had posted in my thread and they have a cart slid down over the "hair" as its the actual wick.

I cant say what I see excites me in a good way with the burnt material. Cartos are supposed to last quite a while, but the material should be kept wet. Questions come up to me on can it feed a long slow draw or hard one? Exactly when does the material start to burn? How often would a top off be needed to prevent this?
Lots of questions to be answered.

The link is a long thread by itself and is going to take some time reading it and the other links from it so I will probably start posting anything else in those or start a thread.
I don't want to hijack Dogsbodys thread and get off track from whats going on here with the original idea. Cartomizer rebuilding is something I wanted to look into and I can see this burning is going to be an issue right from the git go.

I subscribed to this thread so I can keep up with whats going on here.
I apologize for the short "takeover".
 

uzzaperez

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I just wanted to post my grats to dogsbody for this. I'm a long time carto user, gave up on "normal" atties a long time ago. I was pretty skeptical, but when I finally got a carto that didn't seem to be refilling so well anymore (sadly, I always tossed them at that point before so I don't have a stash of oldies to revive) I gave it a go. Filler came out easy and the carto is performing. Nice.

Quick tip, probably already said but I'm not going to read all billion posts in this thread - after you pull the filler, an easy way to center the sock that remains is to stick a paper clip up through the battery and and just straighten and center everything that way.

Thanks again. Great thread.
 

miss MiA

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Yes, apologies for OT Doggy, just want to map this out a little more here, as that could lay an important foundation for the side road Vaporer is planning to turn off on! :)

Katya,
Some good info and pics from the link you posted. Thanks. I can see now that there are gonna be as many or more styles of cartomizers than attys. Anyone offering to send any, Only 808(901 threads) or 510 will be of much help as that's all I can connect to. unless they make one for an 801. I don't have a 4081 or an adapter to anything I own.

Re the 4081s, someone is sending me one of those to try plus an adapter to do so with, but I'll ask her if she had anything in mind for it after that. If not, I could send it to you. Re the GreenCigs, while there is also a proprietary batt for that one, it will thread onto an 808 and there are a couple of simple ways to 'adapt' it without buying a dedicated adapter. One is using the 'staple mod,' the other is drilling a small hole into the 'G' of the logo on the carto. If, after I've sent you some, you need links on that let me know.

The pics and links I found showed 2 styles. One had a solid type wrap(sock) and one pic of a new tear down showed holes in the coil area. That was what I was wondering abt. Was the large black hole actually all burnt material or a blackened edge of a pre-cut hole. Then there are the "long hair" type from the link ScottBee had posted in my thread and they have a cart slid down over the "hair" as its the actual wick.

I cant say what I see excites me in a good way with the burnt material. Cartos are supposed to last quite a while, but the material should be kept wet. Questions come up to me on can it feed a long slow draw or hard one? Exactly when does the material start to burn? How often would a top off be needed to prevent this?
Lots of questions to be answered.

The link is a long thread by itself and is going to take some time reading it and the other links from it so I will probably start posting anything else in those or start a thread.
The thread Katya linked you to began about a year ago IIRC, then was most recently bumped sometime in March with the 'overflow' from a heated thread that got locked, and another which got deleted. By the time it was bumped again that last time, there had been some new developments in the world of cartos, so to read about those it may be efficient to pick it up around March, initially anyway. Altho I've participated in it I never read it from the beginning myself -- probably because of all I'd already read and learned in the aforementioned locked thread many of us were refugees from.

Anyway, in the thread Katya linked, from around March on anyway, the focus was kept on possible solutions and the current state of cartos, and there's good info in there on that. But another one, which is also linked in that one IIRC, that would definitely be very good for getting up to speed on the longstanding burn issue itself, and discussion/debate/arguing over the exact kind of questions you're now asking (i.e., how much can frequent top offs help, etc.) and is also a more recent reference on those aspects, is this locked one I mentioned above:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/kr808d-1/75215-all-my-used-cartos-toast.html

I'll digress to say, every time I refer someone there it's a selfless act lol, since I was one of the first ppl who replied on it and at that time I did not yet know about the burn issue!!!! :oops: Sure felt stoopid later, but it is true that the OP's level of toasting -- that he could basically see 'charcoal' upon merely peering in, not even dissecting the carto first, was extremely extreme and the part that had really thrown me!

Anyway, lots of pics, and links to other 'classic' burn threads, ended up getting posted in the 'Toast' thread. (No point in recreating the wheel on the parts that have already been discussed intensively numerous times, i.e., how bad can it get, is it preventable, what about this 'preventive' technique or that one, etc. etc.) In 'Toast' you'll also hear references to 'the other thread,' which was another even more heated one running simultaneously in a different subforum, with some of the same participants. That one ended up containing some input from engineer-y types on technical aspects that you may find useful... but later got deleted. However, note that I'd saved a .pdf print of that thread, so when reading 'Toast' and hearing references to it, or if for any other reason you decide you'd like to read that one too, PM me your email addy and I'll send it to you.

If at any point you become interested in reading more about the new higher resistance kind in particular, and the unfolding of discoveries on how they work, this thread contained a fair amount of that at a point not long after it was first started. (Became very OT in later days.)

Ok, don't know how 'branch offs' are typically handled, but Vaporer maybe you could start a thread in the modders forum that links here for background reading only and specifies that... However, actually not that much has come up here on the particular aspects you plan to branch into. So maybe it would be even better to start fresher -- begin a thread containing links to some of the classic burn threads you're about to read, as the 'prerequisites.' FYI, many ppl have followed the carto burn issue closely, but off the top of my head, two who have followed it especially closely are Scottbee and AlexTM. Maybe they can help fill in any blanks in the historical maze that you may come up against. However, Scottbee seems to be largely MIA lately, lost to real life and impending-summer boat prep and family fun or something silly like that! :rolleyes:;)
 

tiburonfirst

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Can you remove the filling/stuffing and then use the cart on an auto battery or will the juice kill the battery?

cathy, i have been dripping right on my 401 atomizer since february using an automatic battery. both, attys and bats, are still working fine. but there have been reports of bats going bad if you drip. i imagine the concept is the same with the cartos so i would have to say ....it depends:)
 

Dogsbody

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I don't want to hijack Dogsbodys thread and get off track from whats going on here with the original idea. Cartomizer rebuilding is something I wanted to look into and I can see this burning is going to be an issue right from the git go.
I subscribed to this thread so I can keep up with whats going on here.
I apologize for the short "takeover".

Yes, apologies for OT Doggy, just want to map this out a little more here, as that could lay an important foundation for the side road Vaporer is planning to turn off on! :))

Vaporer and miss MiA- Go for it, the reason I tried this in the first place was to try and reduce the burning filler issues, and I welcome all thoughts, comments and opinions on this matter.

Can you remove the filling/stuffing and then use the cart on an auto battery or will the juice kill the battery?
I use them on autos no problem, but I would recommend using a manual for at least a few days untill you get used to the few little things that can go wrong, which seems to be:

1 dripping straight down the middle.
2 overfilling (particularly with the 510)
3 juice leaking when holding PV upside down/shaking/transport etc.

Some users have reported 'leaky' cartos too, I am not totally sure about this but it may just be that some leak and some dont, so caution when using a new carto would be a good idea until you 'trust' it.


I just wanted to post my grats to dogsbody for this. I'm a long time carto user, gave up on "normal" atties a long time ago. I was pretty skeptical, but when I finally got a carto that didn't seem to be refilling so well anymore (sadly, I always tossed them at that point before so I don't have a stash of oldies to revive) I gave it a go. Filler came out easy and the carto is performing. Nice.

Quick tip, probably already said but I'm not going to read all billion posts in this thread - after you pull the filler, an easy way to center the sock that remains is to stick a paper clip up through the battery and and just straighten and center everything that way.

Thanks again. Great thread.

Thanks for the reply and the tip, uzzaperez.

I have tried this and it works like a charm. I am using a V4L regular cart--with the hard removable cap--I also put a drip tip in the opening. I find if I hold the device at a 45 degree angle when dripping it avoids the "down the center sock" leak. No leaks for a couple of days now.

Hey Ddubya, yeah good advice....45 degree is the go, thanks for the reply.

Good Stuff DB..I just came across this thread now.

Maybe next time you could sign off with a.....

"The dingoy oit me byebee"

:toast:
lol, I will do that, I meant to in a vid I made last night, but I forgot. next time!

Seeing as the "sock" unravels as it does... how imparitive is it to the over all functionality of the carto? were it to be removed.. would it still function?

when i fire my carto when its relatively dry... i can see a portion of the coil getting orange... the small part that i can see starting to glow appears to be at the base of the carto... so if the sock runs up the entire length of the tube, yet the only part of the coil getting orange is at the very bottom of it... is the sock really that crucial?

Edited: Afterthought,, it seems to me... that the tube running up the center is keeping the juice from flowing out the bottom hole... so if the part of the coil getting hot is at the bottom then as long as there is juice "there"... and the tube is intact to prevent leakage.. why is the sock needed...

I think others have answered this already, but yeah there are two parts to the 'wick' ,the inner sock and the outer wrap. After the filler is removed the wrap really does seem to help wicking the juice from right down the bottom. The 510s only have a shallow stem/snorkel in them so the wrap really is needed to draw juice up to the inner sock .
The wrap does seem to burn whether the filler material is present or not so while this method may not remove all possibility of burning it certainly reduces the amount of burning and eliminates the posibility of burning filler.

Also, the wrap doesn't always unravel either, most of mine stay firmly wrapped around the inner sock.

Okay, had to try this on my hoarded aging spent cartos...just... WOW!

I use my favorite juice for refilling when the prefilled are waning, it's thicker and darker and does not give me as many refills before I set them aside. (hoard, hoard) I never get around to cleaning them, just occasionally condom fill them again.

No more settling for the murky flavor (which I was willing to put up with)...

Thanks DB for sharing this excellent tip...keeps me vaping more sanitarily (?) as well!

Thanks donnellyk, glad to hear it is working ok for you too.

You raise an interesting point about carto hygiene, and yeah I agree, we would have to be much better off without the filler.
I haven't had time to keep up with other threads that were talking about the possibility of mold or bacteria growth in them, but if it were a problem, this method should reduce the likelihood and level of contamination.
 

j21blackjack

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After destroying the first 510 carto, I got the second one to work great. I took my time and carefully wiggled the filler out of a brand new carto. Put 10 drops down into it, gave it about 10 seconds to soak in, gave a quick button check to make sure it was working, then took a nice long drag. This mod works great, and the carto holds a ton of liquid. So far no leakage (I let it sit battery down for a few hours), and pretty good vapor production. I think I'll be ordering many more cartos in the future. :)
 

prr2freya

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After removing the stuffing, the 510 cartos can leak a LOT if not careful. I don't drip down the sides anymore, I make sure the drips land on the sock and I stop when the sock is saturated.. if you add too much and there is liquid pooling at the bottom, they leak because the straw-wick is not sealed at the bottom and can be moved up and down.. So far I have unstuffed 6 cartos and only killed one.
 

tiburonfirst

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After removing the stuffing, the 510 cartos can leak a LOT if not careful. I don't drip down the sides anymore, I make sure the drips land on the sock and I stop when the sock is saturated.. if you add too much and there is liquid pooling at the bottom, they leak because the straw-wick is not sealed at the bottom and can be moved up and down.. So far I have unstuffed 6 cartos and only killed one.

well, i tried it with a 4081 carto, also vertical atty, and it just leaks right out:glare:
 

Dogsbody

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well, i tried it with a 4081 carto, also vertical atty, and it just leaks right out:glare:


hey sorry about that tiburonfirst, I should put a note in there saying I have only tested it with 510 and kr8o8d-1 cartos, and may or may not work on others etc...

...but thanks for the feedback!

Also, it seems there are a few different types of 510s and kr8s getting around now, so test it on a carto that is no longer suitable to use in the normal way.... that way if it is no good as a no filler carto- it is no real loss.
 

Lorizgal

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any one tried this on a greensmoke carto? i got a bunch of those laying around and 2 greensmoke batteries laying around that i never use.

I tried it before I knew what i was doing, but then I still attempt to smoke this brand, but right now I can't as they the batteries have all croaked.
 

br5495

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I read this complete thread with interest, because I have been doing something almost like this for a few months. I say almost, because my guinea pigs are an off brand type with a somewhat different coil arrangement. In one way, they probably work better than anything I have read here, and in another way they don't.

The bad thing first. The modified cartomizer only holds 5 or 6 drops without leaking.

Now the good thing. The coil is completely exposed after the filler is removed.

The coil in this thing is horizontal and looks about like an atomizer with the bridge removed. It is even wound around the same type of material as an atomizer. It does not have an outer sock. It has one small tube leading up to it and both wires go through it. This tube also served as a wick for the original filler material. The small amount of material inside the coil draws from this woven tube.

This woven tube looks like high temperature spaghetti that is used for electrical wiring. IT DOES NOT BURN. Maybe it will melt with a cutting torch, I don't know. I think asbestos was the best high temperature electrical insulation we had before this material was developed.

After the filler is removed from this cartomizer, it can take three drops without any juice running out of it. This is the way I first tried it and it was my first experience with dripping. Later on, I packed a small amount of filler down inside it to absorb an over drip. This filler is below the coil and does not touch it. After trying this, I discovered that I could get away with 5 drops or so (if I'm real quick about taking a toot, it will handle more that that). Dripping is not my first choice, so I have not tried to improve this arrangement.

Another advantage of this type is that the coil can be dry burned to remove an excessive buildup from the baked on juice. This gunk gets so thick that it looks like a small chunk of coal instead of a wire coil. However, I don't dry burn until the temperature drops off from too much crud. I think this buildup is another reason why our cartomizers go "bad".

These cartomizers are for Knight Sticks. The company that sells them has a bad reputation and the only thing you can order from their web site is a "Free Trial". Fortunately, I bought 2 kits from them over the phone and did not get ripped off.

Order Knight Sticks Cigarette ? | Free Trial Today! | Knight Sticks Cigarette ? No Smoke E-Cigarette!

Actually, their cartomizers are quality built. They have a stainless steel body, a 510 thread, and measure about 3.0 ohm resistance. My wife and I are still using some of them for secondary flavors, etc.

Even though these cartomizers are not the best ones I have, I will always be fond of them. That's because the first one I used got me off of cigarettes and I have not felt a need for one since then.

br
 
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roadrash

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DB, I tried this mod when you first posted it. like many others i ruined the first 510 carto.:) The second one, I got the filler out but the attie wire was touching the side and with too much juice in it i was getting a shockey buzz when I vaped it. I threw it in the junk drawer and moved on, looking for that unattainable perfect mod. after trying all the other cart mods, i gave up. went back to dripping. I was going to a party and I was trying to get set up for vapin all day without dripping. i wanted to use a on 3.7v reg batt. so as not to stand out so much and have my hands free for drinking and other activities. I new all the other carts were a pain and tasted like burnt do,do.

Yup, I pulled out the stripped carto and put a small piece of filler in between the attie wire and the holder. no more shock. i then used a condom to fill the carto. watched it fill up to the top of the sock. removed the condom and blew out the carto from the top. blew all the extra juice right into my dripper mod, no waste:) Wiped off the threads and put it on a joy 510 manual bat and vaped away. You know the rest of the story.
Put the condoms back on and you are good to go.:)
This 510 carto mod on a 3.7v bat is the best. :2cool: much better than a reg carto.

Thanks again M8.
 
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eHuman

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Well I had an idea that solves 2 issues that have been brought up in this long but entertaining and informative thread.

1. Peeps not liking to tailpipe the carto bare, and .2 drip tips being centered when an off centered one would be more forgiving.

I don't use the 501 but imagine it would work the same as the kr808d-1.

Simple solution to both for dripping carto: Place a hole off-centered in the end of a condom. blow n go!
 

sheidh

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I tried this with a v9 carto....not much luck....tore the wire on one....pulled it way up on another...they are really wound tight....about an hour out of my life I will never see again.
Got to thinking about it...really wanted to try it...so I took a 510/808 adapter and screwed it in to the carto....clamped it in a vise ( I"ll never be able to use it again) and wrapped tape on a pair of pliers and begin to wiggle the case back and forth...off it came...slid the case off.....great.....now I took a pair of small sissors and just cut the stuffing away...so easy...put the case back on...tapped it gently...filled it with 5 or 6 drops eliquid and vaped away. I now understand why people say "great flavor" and th hit....hot juice hit my tounge and the back of my throat...not a lot of fun. I had got some juice down the tube. Blew it out and tried again....Good flavor...good vapor....and a .... load of th...Im not sure it was worth all the trouble, but will try it a few times. Only the wrap on the case was a little smuged/deformed...not a problem
 
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