Don't get scammed! How to identify a genuine Atmomixania vs. Fasttech or HCigar Nemesis Clone

[Technonut]

Nice unprovoked attack. Someone needs to view the forum rules...

I looked at the official site Nemesis Devices and they only have one (not the one I want, looking for either a VW or matte, prefer matte). Also checked vape Rev, only the matte mixed and polished mix both the 17mm edition...

Instead of acting like an ... and attacking your fellow vapers, actually provide help with a link or something. If you have nothing to add, then don't reply.

Totally called for IMO... This thread is about a member who wanted a GENUINE Nemesis, and was ripped-off. He just wanted to make sure others didn't make the same mistake.

I see Bad Ninja regurgitating the same "you've been scammed, over-priced tube" rhetoric in multiple threads. It gets tiring. It must make him / her feel good attempting to make folks feel stupid about supporting the designer / manufacturer of these mods, and how they spend their own $$... Then posting about the flippers in the classifieds, when he / she is not even verified to see what goes on in there.. Wouldn't be of much interest anyway, since the buying & trading of counterfeits is against ECF policy.

 

[Revelene]

Totally called for IMO... This thread is about a member who wanted an ORIGINAL Nemesis, and was ripped-off. He just wanted to make sure others didn't make the same mistake.

I see Bad Ninja regurgitating the same "you've been scammed, over-priced tube" rhetoric in multiple threads. It gets tiring. It must make him / her feel good attempting to make folks feel stupid about supporting the designer / manufacturer of these mods, and how they spend their own $$... Then posting about the flippers in the classifieds, when he / she is not even verified to see what goes on in there.. Wouldn't be of much interest anyway, since the buying & trading of counterfeits is against ECF policy.

Calling me names because I WANT a real one and cannot find the one I want is called for? Oh, no. It's a contradiction to what you say afterwards! God forbid I want find one in stock that is actually in English and authorized by Atmomixani.

Sent from my beacon on moon

 

[Technonut]

Calling me names because I WANT a real one and cannot find the one I want is called for? Oh, no. It's a contradiction to what you say afterwards! God forbid I want find one in stock that is actually in English and authorized by Atmomixani.

Sent from my beacon on moon

I wasn't referring to attacking you...

 

[Fury83]

To be honest, I just thought it was stupid that people in here were saying that it's atmo's fault for not making a lot and that the business model would not sustain.

 

[Technonut]

My point is that this thread shouldn't have been derailed... The intent was admirable, and helpful.

I rarely involve myself in these clone / anti-clone threads.. It just ...... me off that when someone is trying to be helpful, someone just has to come around and ruin it...

EDIT: With that said, I'm placing Bad Ninja on my ignore list.. It's not worth raising my blood pressure over... Hopefully, members will get some benefit from this thread as intended.

 

[Revelene]

My point is that this thread shouldn't have been derailed... The intent was admirable, and helpful.

I rarely involve myself in these clone / anti-clone threads.. It just ...... me off that when someone is trying to be helpful, someone just has to come around and ruin it...

Indeed. In the end, I think the point is to make sure you are purchasing from a reliable source. Kind of funny how the human mind works and can easily be led astray.

 

[retired1]

Knock off the name calling and snark.

Keep it on topic.

 

[Submaniac]

This is a photograph in sunlight to compare the logos of the two. The actual VW Nemesis is on right. The actual nemesis has deeper engraving than the clone. The difference in threading on the bottom is evident when the main body tubes are placed next to each other.

This is a comparison of logos between the early VW nemesis (left), clone (middle) and Vaperev (right). It is also noticeable that the vent holes on the actual nemesis are larger than clone.

 

[Submaniac]

This is a photograph of the clone serial numbers and "nemesis" markings located on the back. Clone is in the middle. It should be noted that for both of the original nemesis(es) I applied a clear automotive vinyl wrap to protect the mods from damage. The seams of the wrap are visible in the photographs. The 1436 as near as I can tell is an early nemesis where there was no "paint" applied to the engravings which both the clone and the VR nemesis have "paint" applied to the engraving. The actual engravings when compared in person are very light. It appears that the serial number on the actual (far left) could actually be buffed off accidentally (which is another reason I wrapped it).

This is a comparison of the inside tube threading of the clone vs real (right). It appears from visual inspection that the threading is the same. The clone tube will thread into the actual nemesis and vice versa.

comparison of the firing buttons. The VR nemesis is on the right, clone in middle, VW right. Both originals have the magnetic switch installed which the clone does not. Upon close inspection, the inside brass threading of both the originals is slightly longer than the brass of the clone (middle). The steel switch itself is also slightly longer than the clone. It is a very subtle difference in heights, but it is there.

comparison of the engravings on the bottom. The early nemesis was not engraved at all with atmomixani train logo. The engraving of the "By atmomixani" the "b" is different.

side by side comparison of clone engraving vs real

 

[NatureBoy]

The classifieds here doesn't support flippers... In fact, most if the time it's below retail. The only times I've seen flipper prices are for so-called "unicorns". Caravelas, Hellfires, stuff like that.

There's also the 20% above retail rule. But I've seen this enforced only a handful of times, because people here usually just don't do that.

You and I must be looking at a different Classifieds section because I constantly see mods over the retail price in there. CONSTANTLY. A lot of times over the 20% rule until they're forced to drop their prices. Many people on this forum (and others for that matter) still have a hard time understanding that used products sell for LESS than retail, not more. Everyone else in the real world gets it.

Fortunately, there is still a fair, honest group of people on this forum that price things fairly, and sometimes downright generously. Just gotta keep an eagle on there when you want something cuz they go quick!

 

[crxess]

@ Submaniac
Sorry, I was on my out the Door this morning. 12hr Shift. Just got back in and eating Dinner. I'm Beat, but if I can I will Get pics Tomorrow of the FT and HCigar SS side by side with Locks off.

I will say this, If that one you got stuck with is anything like the one you linked on FT - That is one of the Nastiest No Nemessis looking Mods out there. Wrong Ring setup, wrong tube lengths - Everything about it says(Bury Me in an unmarked grave)

 

[Submaniac]

^^
Thanks. Definitely appreciate it if you could. (Whenever you have time.) Aside from issue of scamming a fake for a real one, there's also an issue of quality of some of the clones. I have clones, and some of them in terms of quality--definitely hit or miss from what I've seen out there. The nemmy is one of the most popular clones, so it might be nice to have a comparison of what to look for in a "good" clone vs. bad one. Thanks and cheers.

 

[servolos]

I hate that anyone has to go through this Crap.
Seems there is always some one out to take advantage.

That Said, You really need to stop Pointing the Finger at Fasttech.
They do not Make anything. They are a Wholesaler.
The Clones they sell are NOT Proprietary to them and often are available on Ebay First from Co-op Purchasers Direct manufacturer buys.

Another thing you might consider is there are more than a dozen Different clone releases out there.
Not to dismiss your situation, but I have 5 non-originals and NONE including the 4 FT Models look anything like that. No wonky Top caps and no skinny threading.

Others may wish to be more cautious as your indicators of differences may not be enough to differentiate all Copies from the original.

i agree with this post. some of the clones are spot on. sort of why i wish that you can buy a clone that doesnt have the makers marks sometimes.

 

[servolos]

as far as a business model is concerned; atmomixani made a good device otherwise it wouldnt be so popular and cloned so much.

however there is one flaw with the nemesis and that is the switch. it is crunchy and tends to bind up especially with the spring. that said atmomixani machined the switch well so it doesnt crunch and bind as much as the clones do. that could be one giveaway in determining which one is real (of course that also means that you have to have played with a real one to tell if the switch is a fake).

 

[RickCain]

rant

Clones are ruining the market IMHO - I wouldn't mind them if they were able to be identified easily. Too many people are fooled into thinking they are buying the real thing which is down right lame.

People are foolish to think that these things are as good as high end product because they are not..... The China youth factory isn't going to use the same quality metals and skip corners like not putting as many threads in order to save $$. Not to mention 12 year olds putting them together.

Clone anything you want China - don't copy the logo's.

Just my 2c

/rant

 

[RickCain]

as far as a business model is concerned; atmomixani made a good device otherwise it wouldnt be so popular and cloned so much.

however there is one flaw with the nemesis and that is the switch. it is crunchy and tends to bind up especially with the spring. that said atmomixani machined the switch well so it doesnt crunch and bind as much as the clones do. that could be one giveaway in determining which one is real (of course that also means that you have to have played with a real one to tell if the switch is a fake).

Clean your mod, that is the leading reason to this problem... It is a placebo if you think the quality of a clone comes close to a real Nemi.

 

[crxess]

rant

Clones are ruining the market IMHO - I wouldn't mind them if they were able to be identified easily. Too many people are fooled into thinking they are buying the real thing which is down right lame.

People are foolish to think that these things are as good as high end product because they are not..... The China youth factory isn't going to use the same quality metals and skip corners like not putting as many threads in order to save $$. Not to mention 12 year olds putting them together.

Clone anything you want China - don't copy the logo's.

Just my 2c

/rant

I'll Agree with the No logo(or different) but beyond that everything is Personal assumption.
You live in Cal. USA not China and can only relate to the culture in which you were raised. China has fast tracked into becoming one of the most productive countries in the world. Their education system has risen to the top and in many areas exceeds that of the US educational system.

I can tell you they CAN produce product with Excellent Quality. I have been Hands on all my life and can easily see the difference in Quality parts.
So, why is China Product normally Cheap disposable junk? Because that is What their Market partners want.
Low Cost
High Profit
Short life Cycle

Comments like Clones are ruining the Market are out of place.
One cannot ruin a market that does not exist.< Readily available product at affordable market pricing>
One Can fill the Need of a potential Market. < Mass produced, reasonably priced merchandise to fill consumer demand>

Now, The just of this thread is Detecting Differences between Replica's(counterfeits/Clones) and Original Production pieces. Not economic / political debate.

 

[Richard75]

Comments like Clones are ruining the Market are out of place.
One cannot ruin a market that does not exist.< Readily available product at affordable market pricing>
One Can fill the Need of a potential Market. < Mass produced, reasonably priced merchandise to fill consumer demand>

While I don't think I'd say clones are "ruining the market", I would like to point out that it's only because of these clones that the poor OP got scammed out of a couple hundred dollars. I know it's not exactly the fault of the clones that some random guy was a jerk, but it's early here, and my brain works in a simple way before my coffee cup is empty. My logic is... no clones = no scams.

At the end of the day, there's only one way to make sure your product is authentic: buy it from an authorized reseller. If you're buying it used, ask for a receipt of some kind (many people on the classified will actually offer this). If it looks shady, if there's any doubt in your mind, don't do it.

It ticks me off a little that people (I won't mention names) like the to bash originals and swear by the clones, while people like me and Submaniac and Technonut, we now have to be extra careful and extra critical just to make sure we get an original. But as is any "in demand" market I guess.

 

[crxess]

While I don't think I'd say clones are "ruining the market", I would like to point out that it's only because of these clones that the poor OP got scammed out of a couple hundred dollars. I know it's not exactly the fault of the clones that some random guy was a jerk, but it's early here, and my brain works in a simple way before my coffee cup is empty. My logic is... no clones = no scams.

At the end of the day, there's only one way to make sure your product is authentic: buy it from an authorized reseller. If you're buying it used, ask for a receipt of some kind (many people on the classified will actually offer this). If it looks shady, if there's any doubt in your mind, don't do it.

It ticks me off a little that people (I won't mention names) like the to bash originals and swear by the clones, while people like me and Submaniac and Technonut, we now have to be extra careful and extra critical just to make sure we get an original. But as is any "in demand" market I guess.

I don't disagree at all. Like I said, I'd just as soon the Manufacturers (Logo'd) their mods so they CAN be told apart. Hell, Etch Replica of in all of them.<personally preferred to a Blank tube>
{Then again, I'd be happy if they all had a Dragon on them - instant China Recognition(and I like dragons)}

Being honest, If I had the income I did 10yrs. ago I would have nothing but originals. Unfortunately life turned on me and I do what I can with what I have. Family first, toys second. So I happily settle for what I can rationalize and move on.

A simple set of facts most often overlooked on ECF - And everywhere else in life
1) Those that could never afford it have no Idea why it really is so nice to have it.
2) Those that could Always afford it have no idea what it is to do with out.
3) Those that have been in both realms have considerably more experience and understanding of it.

 

[Richard75]

I don't disagree at all. Like I said, I'd just as soon the Manufacturers (Logo'd) their mods so they CAN be told apart. Hell, Etch Replica of in all of them.<personally preferred to a Blank tube>
{Then again, I'd be happy if they all had a Dragon on them - instant China Recognition(and I like dragons)}

haha, that wasn't racist at all. I'm just kidding!

Being honest, If I had the income I did 10yrs. ago I would have nothing but originals. Unfortunately life turned on me and I do what I can with what I have. Family first, toys second. So I happily settle for what I can rationalize and move on.

A simple set of facts most often overlooked on ECF - And everywhere else in life
1) Those that could never afford it have no Idea why it really is so nice to have it.
2) Those that could Always afford it have no idea what it is to do with out.
3) Those that have been in both realms have considerably more experience and understanding of it.

I'd never tell you how to spend your money. Nor am I a super hardcore originals guy... I selectively own clones. For example, I'm not a fan of the GG products (they're built wonderfully, I just don't like the vibe they give me), so I own Rainbow Heaven's versions. I would willingly buy a clone as a sort of backup/spare parts to an original I have (I have a Rainbow Heaven AIOS, and two originals). But I draw the line at the logo copying, like you mentioned. That's why I like Rainbow Heaven's stuff, usually there's no logo, or it's a different finish, etc, etc.

I know, I know, as long as it keeps you from smoking, it's all good. But there are higher reasons I'd rather spent 200+ on an original instead of a clone, and it's not the "superior build quality" some people talk about, because I'd buy an original even if it had lower quality threads or stuff like that. One of them is customer service. If something goes wrong with a mod I own, I know that Mojo, or Yasu, or Provape is going to be there to help me out. Try getting support from Hcigar. But above all, it's just that I want to support creativity, or something like that. It's hard to describe exactly what I mean by this.

One time on eBay, I came across a listing that floored me. It was an original painting by Rene Magritte, my favorite artist. I spent days scrutinizing this this, researching and studying. I didn't win it, but I found no useful info on the authenticity. My "desire" for an original here is very similar to my desire for a original mod. When I took painting in college, we did exact copies (I did Dali's "Persistence of Memory"), and that's fine. But if I had signed Dali's name on it...

It's quite amazing to me how some people just don't "get" what the problem with that is. Will it kill the industry? Of course not. I'm a fan of Dali, and Magritte, so perhaps it's more of an issue for me (and fellow fans) when someone rips off their original work. I'm also a fan of Mojo, and Yasu... and my feelings still apply.