well I went to my psychiatrist today and asked him about vaping, and he said basically we don't know the long term effects. and he said its possible it could be effecting the meds I take for my schizophrenia. and my mom is obsessed with trying to tell me vaping is bad for you. and I don't know what to believe, it sucks, cus I really enjoy it. there are tons of articles online about why vaping is bad , and then there are articles saying its great and there is nothing wrong with it. I started vaping about 5 months ago and have not experienced anything bad, only just that my depression has gotten a little worse, but whos to say that's from vaping. so for now I guess im gunna cut down a little , maybe go out and vape every hour or so. what do you guys think?
dont know who to believe :(
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If you think it may be having a negative effect then why not try vaping zero nic for a week and see if there's any change?
Experiment!
In my opinion, Folks know a lot more about themselves than docs would have you believe...
Experiment!
In my opinion, Folks know a lot more about themselves than docs would have you believe...
I have QUITE a bit of anxiety and depression. It is in the family. So, I take MULTIPLE medicines. No effect. In fact, the idea of tinkering and sitting to vape is relaxing. Once I got the meds and the dosages settled, life is GREAT!
If I listened to every shrink that told me I needed to work on my "Impulse Control issues" I dont know where I would be.
I am a 44 year old high school drop out ( GED and some college ) out 160 miles in the gulf of mexico in charge of the medical care of 150 personnel. I also supervise 11 other paramedics on 6 deepwater drilling units.
I am completely un-medicated and I vape like a chimney! I mean what could go wrong...
Ok, now that everybody had a chuckle at my crippling mental health issues and lack of education...
Dally, you came here because you want help. We have a few health care professionals here but no psychiatrists that I am aware of.... You will have to take our advice with a grain of salt... certainly my advice... but I will say this....
I dont believe nicotine is linked to causing mental illness in any study. Its not like you are a diabetic eating sugar, there isnt any direct link between the two things. You are a grown up and are allowed to make grown up decisions. You have some mental health issues, that does not make you any less intellegent than anyone else here.
If you enjoy vaping and it makes you happy then do it. Tell your mother that is the decision you have made and that it isnt open for discussion. If you let her harass you about it then that is a seperate issue all together. Dont put anyone in the position to make you feel depressed. You only have a finite number of years on this earth, I know I wont spend another second putting up with someone elses BS...
This is the second time you have mentioned your Mother giving you grief about vaping in these forums. You have 3 choices here... ignore her, talk to her about it, or give in to what she wants and just quit vaping. You already know we are going to tell you to vape on... because we all love to vape... it makes us happy.
Your doctor did not tell you vaping was bad. We dont believe it is nearly as bad as smoking. Your mom seems to be the only one pushing the dangers of vaping down your throat. If I was a betting man I would guess that Vaping isnt the only area of trouble between you and your mother.
I am a 44 year old high school drop out ( GED and some college ) out 160 miles in the gulf of mexico in charge of the medical care of 150 personnel. I also supervise 11 other paramedics on 6 deepwater drilling units.
I am completely un-medicated and I vape like a chimney! I mean what could go wrong...
Ok, now that everybody had a chuckle at my crippling mental health issues and lack of education...
Dally, you came here because you want help. We have a few health care professionals here but no psychiatrists that I am aware of.... You will have to take our advice with a grain of salt... certainly my advice... but I will say this....
I dont believe nicotine is linked to causing mental illness in any study. Its not like you are a diabetic eating sugar, there isnt any direct link between the two things. You are a grown up and are allowed to make grown up decisions. You have some mental health issues, that does not make you any less intellegent than anyone else here.
If you enjoy vaping and it makes you happy then do it. Tell your mother that is the decision you have made and that it isnt open for discussion. If you let her harass you about it then that is a seperate issue all together. Dont put anyone in the position to make you feel depressed. You only have a finite number of years on this earth, I know I wont spend another second putting up with someone elses BS...
This is the second time you have mentioned your Mother giving you grief about vaping in these forums. You have 3 choices here... ignore her, talk to her about it, or give in to what she wants and just quit vaping. You already know we are going to tell you to vape on... because we all love to vape... it makes us happy.
Your doctor did not tell you vaping was bad. We dont believe it is nearly as bad as smoking. Your mom seems to be the only one pushing the dangers of vaping down your throat. If I was a betting man I would guess that Vaping isnt the only area of trouble between you and your mother.
i started seeing a shrink not too long ago. i'm korean by birth and american by choice. but i'm more or less still attached to confucius core value, and try to solve most of my problem by getting roaring drunk. anyway... i got tired of getting drunk, and my anxiety, and depression wasn't getting any better. quitting smoking helped. changing to vaping helped.
my point... i asked my shrink about vaping. he's a very old gent. he has his opinion, and he basically said... he knows smoking is bad. when he was in med school, everyone smoked, and the reports started coming out about health risk of smoking. as to vaping, he simply said he has no opinion. not enough study has been done yet and he can't form an opinion other than anything is better than smoking. personally, i think that's most honest statement i heard about vaping.
my point... i asked my shrink about vaping. he's a very old gent. he has his opinion, and he basically said... he knows smoking is bad. when he was in med school, everyone smoked, and the reports started coming out about health risk of smoking. as to vaping, he simply said he has no opinion. not enough study has been done yet and he can't form an opinion other than anything is better than smoking. personally, i think that's most honest statement i heard about vaping.
Were you a cigarette smoker?
If you were already a "nicotine addict" I can't imagine that vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol could make that much of a difference unless your psych is also advising you from eating most foods or using personal hygiene products like toothpaste.
Hell there's prolly some PG/VG in those meds he's prescribing you.
If you were already a "nicotine addict" I can't imagine that vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol could make that much of a difference unless your psych is also advising you from eating most foods or using personal hygiene products like toothpaste.
Hell there's prolly some PG/VG in those meds he's prescribing you.
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You mite try vaping 100% Vg ?
Maybe start dropping your nicotine down.
Best wishes
H
Maybe start dropping your nicotine down.
Best wishes
H
yeah i only vape 6 nic, but i guess ill go to 3 and eventually 0. i started vaping max vg too.
also i smoked after high school for a couple years, then stopped. and then i was introduced to vaping and i liked it so i started vaping. there was like a 3 or 4 year gap between cigs and vaping
Were you a smoker? If it's a choice between going back to smoking, or keeping on vaping, I can not believe that any health-care professional would advise you to go back to smoking.
Also, I'm having a hard time figuring out how the non-nic bits of vaping, especially the vg, would affect meds, or how nicotine gum/lozenges/patches would be an improvement, as those come with various ingredients, too. Maybe you should ask your psychiatrist for some specifics? You could give him some specifics, too--Tell him what's in your juice, and forget about your mom while doing so.
As far as your mom: I have a VERY intrusive mom, so I'm familiar with that territory. You have to put your foot down, and tell her to ".... out," in the politest, nicest, most loving way possible, of course.
I am not in any way authorized to give you medical advice over the internet. I am also not a doctor. However, I will tell you that there is no way possible to eliminate the element of risk from everything we do. Crossing the street, eating takeout, driving a car, getting on an airplane…any one of those things could be harmful or potentially deadly, and yet we do them every day. Because the benefit of them is greater than the potential for harm.
So, you know your body. You know how you feel. I'm guessing that you know what your symptoms feel like, and would maybe recognize if they were getting out of hand. Your doctor didn't say "no, stop vaping now", it seems. If you are using your own funds to purchase your vaping supplies, and it seems like even going outside to use your setup instead of vaping in the house, then I feel like you have every right to tell her that you acknowledge that she's worried about you and you appreciate her concern, but that this is a small risk that you are willing to take because the benefits to you outweigh the potential unknowns. It is possible that she will continue to complain about it, and continue to nag you about it. It is up to you to decide, then, if it is worth it to keep doing it knowing that she is going to be hostile about it.
Whatever you decide, good luck. I'm sorry that you're dealing with such a stressful situation.
So, you know your body. You know how you feel. I'm guessing that you know what your symptoms feel like, and would maybe recognize if they were getting out of hand. Your doctor didn't say "no, stop vaping now", it seems. If you are using your own funds to purchase your vaping supplies, and it seems like even going outside to use your setup instead of vaping in the house, then I feel like you have every right to tell her that you acknowledge that she's worried about you and you appreciate her concern, but that this is a small risk that you are willing to take because the benefits to you outweigh the potential unknowns. It is possible that she will continue to complain about it, and continue to nag you about it. It is up to you to decide, then, if it is worth it to keep doing it knowing that she is going to be hostile about it.
Whatever you decide, good luck. I'm sorry that you're dealing with such a stressful situation.
Well, it's certainly healthier for a smoker to switch to vaping, but not healthier for a nonsmoker to take up vaping, regardless of the nicotine content. Period. There are just too many factors.
Your doctor has a point to a certain degree. First of all, just about every doctor is leery of anything relatively new unless there has been significant research on it and it has been approved by all the appropriate agencies. Secondly, doctors tend to be doubtful of anything they are not personally familiar with, and nearly all know next to nothing about anything beyond their specialty-- which is one thing that makes practicing medicine more of an art and less of a science. Third, practicing doctors are not pharmacists, most know very little about drugs comparatively, they mostly know what they are supposed to subscribe for what illness or symptom, some of the contraindications, major side effects and interactions, and that's about it.
I'll compare electronic cigarettes/nicotine juice to nootropics like the racetam family. Both have mild side effect profiles (though racetams are much less toxic than nicotine), both are relatively new to the medical community, both need much more long-term study though what studies do exist seem to reflect an acceptable level of safety with responsible use, both are becoming more popular in the public, and doctors know next to nothing about them. Yet, there is all kinds of pop myth, misleading advertising, political shenanigans, and scary nonsense in the media about them. This the bulk of what the average doctor knows about e-cigs and racetams. So naturally most doctors warn people away from them. In many cases like this, the doctor's opinion can be easily disregarded if you have truly done your homework.
However, your case is slightly different because it involves psychiatric treatment. It is true that regular nicotine use is unlikely to have zero impact on a psychiatric drug regimen, nor is it unlikely to have zero impact on a normal brain, nevermind an abnormal one.
So a schizophrenic under treatment is likely to be on an antipsychotic and probably a mood stabilizer and maybe an antidepressant. Antipsychotics, both typical and atypical, are dopamine antagonists. Their effectiveness in part comes from their ability to reduce excessive dopamine activity in certain regions of the brain. Nicotine does the opposite, increasing dopamine. This is one of the reasons why nicotine has its long-term-use adverse effects profile.
Any drug that triggers an increase in dopamine will eventually downregulate one's dopamine. This is only one way nicotine can cause depression, anxiety, irritability, insomnia, fatigue, and a myriad of other problems. The more you consume and the longer you consume it, the likelier it is to do more harm than good in the end.
Nicotine stimulates glutamate and histamine. Schizophrenic brains classically have abnormal histamine levels (chronically high histamine can cause depression among other things in otherwise normal brains), so this can be a bit of a wild card.
Nicotine and GABA: vaping nicotine causes the brain to produce GABA four times faster than normal. This is part of its quick reward and initial relaxation, but also part of its addictive potential, and regular occurrence of this will downregulate GABA and make one more susceptible to anxiety, insomnia, etc. I am unsure of GABA's role in schizophrenia but I know it's involved.
Nicotine is cholinergic; most drugs prescribed by psychiatrists are anticholinergic in one way or another, and in varying degrees. Excess acetylcholine causes depression, anxiety and irritability. Depending on what drugs you are taking, nicotine can easily be working against their mechanisms.
Nicotine does many other things I haven't even begun to read about, such as affecting hormones. But generally it seems to have many of the same pros and cons of any other stimulant drug.
A while ago, I did come across a lone study that found a strong correlation with smoking and bipolar and schizophrenia, and hypothesized that there may be something about nicotine that helps symptoms in some way. This study found that when schizophrenic patients ceased smoking, some of their symptoms returned or worsened. I don't have any specifics on it and truthfully am too lazy at the moment to spend 10 mins searching for it on PubMed. I'm sure anyone interested would be able to find it. I don't know the significance of this is because this is a form of self-medication, and schizophrenics also tend to classically self-medicate with alcohol which initially helps, but isn't that awesome for the long run. Alcohol is a GABA agonist.
In short, your doctor is probably right for your individual case. Your own report of depression is a point in the doc's favor. Would likely benefit from significant reduction in nicotine consumption.
I really hope no one gets defensive about what seems to an overwhelmingly negative evaluation of vaping nicotine. This is only one side of the story, and besides, knowing these kinds of things can help people take meaningful action to mitigate adverse effects, such certain alteration in diet, lifestyle including addition of certain supplements, so they can still have their fun with vaping. And in normal brains, with mild use, nicotine can have some cognitive benefits. If it didn't, I wouldn't be using it.
Disclaimer: I have several docs including a shrink and a therapist. I'm on drugs too. Har har. Even though I have confidence in what I've said and I might even sound like I know what I'm talking about, do not take anything I say at face value--simply because listening to a stranger on an internet forum about things like this is generally bad policy. Look up everything for yourself if you think it is relevant to you.
Safe vaping everybody!
Your doctor has a point to a certain degree. First of all, just about every doctor is leery of anything relatively new unless there has been significant research on it and it has been approved by all the appropriate agencies. Secondly, doctors tend to be doubtful of anything they are not personally familiar with, and nearly all know next to nothing about anything beyond their specialty-- which is one thing that makes practicing medicine more of an art and less of a science. Third, practicing doctors are not pharmacists, most know very little about drugs comparatively, they mostly know what they are supposed to subscribe for what illness or symptom, some of the contraindications, major side effects and interactions, and that's about it.
I'll compare electronic cigarettes/nicotine juice to nootropics like the racetam family. Both have mild side effect profiles (though racetams are much less toxic than nicotine), both are relatively new to the medical community, both need much more long-term study though what studies do exist seem to reflect an acceptable level of safety with responsible use, both are becoming more popular in the public, and doctors know next to nothing about them. Yet, there is all kinds of pop myth, misleading advertising, political shenanigans, and scary nonsense in the media about them. This the bulk of what the average doctor knows about e-cigs and racetams. So naturally most doctors warn people away from them. In many cases like this, the doctor's opinion can be easily disregarded if you have truly done your homework.
However, your case is slightly different because it involves psychiatric treatment. It is true that regular nicotine use is unlikely to have zero impact on a psychiatric drug regimen, nor is it unlikely to have zero impact on a normal brain, nevermind an abnormal one.
So a schizophrenic under treatment is likely to be on an antipsychotic and probably a mood stabilizer and maybe an antidepressant. Antipsychotics, both typical and atypical, are dopamine antagonists. Their effectiveness in part comes from their ability to reduce excessive dopamine activity in certain regions of the brain. Nicotine does the opposite, increasing dopamine. This is one of the reasons why nicotine has its long-term-use adverse effects profile.
Any drug that triggers an increase in dopamine will eventually downregulate one's dopamine. This is only one way nicotine can cause depression, anxiety, irritability, insomnia, fatigue, and a myriad of other problems. The more you consume and the longer you consume it, the likelier it is to do more harm than good in the end.
Nicotine stimulates glutamate and histamine. Schizophrenic brains classically have abnormal histamine levels (chronically high histamine can cause depression among other things in otherwise normal brains), so this can be a bit of a wild card.
Nicotine and GABA: vaping nicotine causes the brain to produce GABA four times faster than normal. This is part of its quick reward and initial relaxation, but also part of its addictive potential, and regular occurrence of this will downregulate GABA and make one more susceptible to anxiety, insomnia, etc. I am unsure of GABA's role in schizophrenia but I know it's involved.
Nicotine is cholinergic; most drugs prescribed by psychiatrists are anticholinergic in one way or another, and in varying degrees. Excess acetylcholine causes depression, anxiety and irritability. Depending on what drugs you are taking, nicotine can easily be working against their mechanisms.
Nicotine does many other things I haven't even begun to read about, such as affecting hormones. But generally it seems to have many of the same pros and cons of any other stimulant drug.
A while ago, I did come across a lone study that found a strong correlation with smoking and bipolar and schizophrenia, and hypothesized that there may be something about nicotine that helps symptoms in some way. This study found that when schizophrenic patients ceased smoking, some of their symptoms returned or worsened. I don't have any specifics on it and truthfully am too lazy at the moment to spend 10 mins searching for it on PubMed. I'm sure anyone interested would be able to find it. I don't know the significance of this is because this is a form of self-medication, and schizophrenics also tend to classically self-medicate with alcohol which initially helps, but isn't that awesome for the long run. Alcohol is a GABA agonist.
In short, your doctor is probably right for your individual case. Your own report of depression is a point in the doc's favor. Would likely benefit from significant reduction in nicotine consumption.
I really hope no one gets defensive about what seems to an overwhelmingly negative evaluation of vaping nicotine. This is only one side of the story, and besides, knowing these kinds of things can help people take meaningful action to mitigate adverse effects, such certain alteration in diet, lifestyle including addition of certain supplements, so they can still have their fun with vaping. And in normal brains, with mild use, nicotine can have some cognitive benefits. If it didn't, I wouldn't be using it.
Disclaimer: I have several docs including a shrink and a therapist. I'm on drugs too. Har har. Even though I have confidence in what I've said and I might even sound like I know what I'm talking about, do not take anything I say at face value--simply because listening to a stranger on an internet forum about things like this is generally bad policy. Look up everything for yourself if you think it is relevant to you.
Safe vaping everybody!
thanks for taking the time to reply everybody, im gunna try to cut down and see what happens.
Missed if you answered - Did You Smoke?
My take. You are Depending on others to decide for you if whether something YOU like is okay or not.
Problem is they don't know. Same as with many other things in relation to YOU Specifically. They just DO NOT KNOW.
People here will make their recommendations.......................Based on what?
You will get even more stressed in trying to decide if they are right or not.
You already have a mental condition that is difficult to control under the best of circumstances and honestly do not need the added stress of outside influences.
I would only suggest, you consider any (political, news, undocumented) information, worthless garbage or assumption and let it go.
If Nicotine in any form is a negative influence on your condition then I would assume Vaping is bad for you.
If Nicotine in any form does not effect you then I would assume Vaping should be okay at this point.
Again, these are only my assumptions and you are certainly free to ignore them and relax.
Be safe, be happy and best of luck!
My take. You are Depending on others to decide for you if whether something YOU like is okay or not.
Problem is they don't know. Same as with many other things in relation to YOU Specifically. They just DO NOT KNOW.
People here will make their recommendations.......................Based on what?
You will get even more stressed in trying to decide if they are right or not.
You already have a mental condition that is difficult to control under the best of circumstances and honestly do not need the added stress of outside influences.
I would only suggest, you consider any (political, news, undocumented) information, worthless garbage or assumption and let it go.
If Nicotine in any form is a negative influence on your condition then I would assume Vaping is bad for you.
If Nicotine in any form does not effect you then I would assume Vaping should be okay at this point.
Again, these are only my assumptions and you are certainly free to ignore them and relax.
Be safe, be happy and best of luck!
Missed if you answered - Did You Smoke?
My take. You are Depending on others to decide for you if whether something YOU like is okay or not.
Problem is they don't know. Same as with many other things in relation to YOU Specifically. They just DO NOT KNOW.
People here will make their recommendations.......................Based on what?
You will get even more stressed in trying to decide if they are right or not.
You already have a mental condition that is difficult to control under the best of circumstances and honestly do not need the added stress of outside influences.
I would only suggest, you consider any (political, news, undocumented) information, worthless garbage or assumption and let it go.
If Nicotine in any form is a negative influence on your condition then I would assume Vaping is bad for you.
If Nicotine in any form does not effect you then I would assume Vaping should be okay at this point.
Again, these are only my assumptions and you are certainly free to ignore them and relax.
Be safe, be happy and best of luck!
Finally!!!! A post you should listen to!
IF .... you smoke, an e-cig won't be any worse ... probably better.
IF ... you are not a smoker ... maybe you should think twice about taking up vaping.
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Well, break this down logically
PG- Not likely to interact with drugs, its in a lot of foods that you eat and if you've ever visited a hospital they atomize it in the air. Also used for inhalers.
VG- This is everywhere, cake icing to foods to god knows what else to include cosmetic products..not likely going to interact
Flavorings- Again, not really a concern, Kool-aid has flavorings in it so not likely again.
That leaves us with nicotine as a possible issue.
So, do a quick search on google to see if medicine x interacts with nicotine in any way shape or form.
Nicotine Drug Interactions - Drugs.com
Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't take things at face value, that is a lot of what is wrong with society today. We are happy being sheep and not shepherds in our own lives, do the research on your own and that way you can be more informed to sort out the facts from the BS. Worse case is go and see a hospital doctor and take your medications up with you, ask if Nicotine interacts with any of them in a negative way as they should know the answer to that and better direct you to a solution.
That's interesting...I've read studies that show that nicotine actually has positive effects for hose who suffer from schizophrenia. http://www.schizophrenia.com/nicotine.benefits.htm
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True, but it's not that clear-cut. Even though nicotine may have a positive effect on schizophrenia, it might also throw off the balance of other antidepressants or medications prescribed for the condition.
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