Don't let anyone tell you that nicotine is a poison...

[Nirk]

Strychnine and cyanide do not have any beneficial drug applications I am aware of. Nicotine does have beneficial drug applications, so it can correctly be classed (and is by my sourced link) as a drug.

Why is your classification of it so narrow?



Roaring via Tapatalk

I said about 5 times that nicotine is a drug. It is quite blatantly obvious that it is a drug, or nobody on this forum would take it, because there would be no point taking it otherwise. Nicotine is a pesticide made by a plant to POISON insects, it also has pleasurable psychoactive effects in humans, so obviously it is a drug. But it is also a poison, it is a poison made by a plant as a pesticide which acts as a drug in low doses and a poison in high doses (for humans).

 

[generic mutant]

...I am using the proper terminology, and you two are arguing a layperson term that isn't really meaningful.

Are you starting to understand yet?

No, I'm not.

The premise of the thread is that "Nicotine is not a poison".

I'm arguing that by any commonly accepted definition of the term 'poison' it is.

You can state quite legitimately that it isn't a precisely defined word, fine, but it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. 'Chair' doesn't have a precise and exclusive definition, but you need to be banging your head into some serious philosophy books to argue that we don't know what chairs are.

 

[Fizzpop]

Strychnine and cyanide do not have any beneficial drug applications I am aware of. Nicotine does have beneficial drug applications, so it can correctly be classed (and is by my sourced link) as a drug.

Why is your classification of it so narrow?



Roaring via Tapatalk

EddardinWinter makes a good point here. At the dosages we consume, nicotine is most definitely a drug. And as most people know, if you overdose on a drug, it can kill you. The semantics can get tricky. That being said, given that relatively small amounts of nicotine can kill you, it is worth keeping in mind while handling it that it is, at the very least, dangerous and potentially poisonous. It is this fact that causes me to think that someone claiming that "Nicotine isn't a poison" is being disingenuous and best and irresponsible at worst.

We tend to forget that pretty much everything is a poison to us. Your body has evolved two very important filters, your kidneys and your liver. Without these, even the best organic veggies, brimming with nature's goodness will kill you dead. The concept of "poison" falls on a continuum; it is semantically reasonable to call anything that in small quantity that can kill you a poison. Are some of these poisons potentially beneficial? Yes they are - almost every drug falls under this category as dosage matters. In a sense, this is a stupid argument, because semantics. On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable to call nicotine a poison when one is not busily splitting hairs.

 

[EddardinWinter]

<snip> Therefore there is absolutely no way it can be classed as anything other than a poison which has psychoactive effects at low doses, ...<snip>

Then why would you say that bit before? Can it be 'classed' as a drug or not?




Roaring via Tapatalk

 

[Nirk]

"Nicotine constitutes approximately 0.6–3.0% of the dry weight of tobacco and is present in the range of 2–7 µg/kg of various edible plants. It functions as an antiherbivore chemical; consequently, nicotine was widely used as an insecticide in the past and nicotine analogs such as imidacloprid are currently widely used."

"Nicotine was first isolated from the tobacco plant in 1828 by physician Wilhelm Heinrich Posselt and chemist Karl Ludwig Reimann of Germany, who considered it a poison. Its chemical empirical formula was described by Melsens in 1843, its structure was discovered by Adolf Pinner and Richard Wolffenstein in 1893 and it was first synthesized by Amé Pictet and A. Rotschy in 1904."

 

[Nirk]

Then why would you say that bit before? Can it be 'classed' as a drug or not?

Of course it can because it IS a drug....

"A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food."

People should use Google more.

 

[pcrdude]

Hey Fizzpop, if you go back up, you'll find that position is exactly how I entered this debate.

@ Nirk, 'why' a plant makes something has nothing to do with it's inherent toxicity to humans. Toxicity is inherent to a chemical, and is dose dependent. Some things are toxic at low levels, and others only at high levels. I'll stick with NaCl for consistency. Is NaCl a poison? Nope. Can it be toxic and kill you at a high enough dose? Yep. Is cyanide a poison? At femtogram quantities it is certainly not a poison. In fact, by the layperson definition (without regard to dosage), almonds are a poison (since they have trace levels of cyanide).

Are you two starting to get it yet?

 

[EddardinWinter]

Of course it can because it IS a drug....

I rest my case.



Roaring via Tapatalk

 

[Nirk]

Hey Fizzpop, if you go back up, you'll find that position is exactly how I entered this debate.

@ Nirk, 'why' a plant makes something has nothing to do with it's inherent toxicity to humans. Toxicity is inherent to a chemical, and is dose dependent. Some things are toxic at low levels, and others only at high levels. I'll stick with NaCl for consistency. Is NaCl a poison? Nope. Can it be toxic and kill you at a high enough dose? Yep. Is cyanide a poison? At femtogram quantities it is certainly not a poison. In fact, by the layperson definition (without regard to dosage), almonds are a poison (since they have trace levels of cyanide).

Are you two starting to get it yet?

Either you are bored and doing it on purpose or you are extremely dense, I cannot post any more evidence other than the 100% conclusive evidence I have already posted multiple times.

 

[Fizzpop]

Hey Fizzpop, if you go back up, you'll find that position is exactly how I entered this debate.

@ Nirk, 'why' a plant makes something has nothing to do with it's inherent toxicity to humans. Toxicity is inherent to a chemical, and is dose dependent. Some things are toxic at low levels, and others only at high levels. I'll stick with NaCl for consistency. Is NaCl a poison? Nope. Can it be toxic and kill you at a high enough dose? Yep. Is cyanide a poison? At femtogram quantities it is certainly not a poison. In fact, by the layperson definition (without regard to dosage), almonds are a poison (since they have trace levels of cyanide).

Are you two starting to get it yet?

I got it from the beginning. The point being missing, from my perspective, is that saying that nicotine isn't a poison is dangerous when we have people mixing juice using 100/mg concentrations that are potentially very dangerous. In day to day reality, the classification that nicotine is a poison is about as true of a proposition as one can hope for.

 

[happydave]

poi·son
ˈpoizən/Submit
noun
1.
a substance that, when introduced into or absorbed by a living organism, causes death or injury, esp. one that kills by rapid action even in a small quantity.
synonyms: toxin, toxicant, venom; More


Nicotine, causes vascular constriction even in LOW AMOUNTS. this is NOT a good thing.. so Yes! Nicotine is a poison.
a very good friend of mine had to give up it (nicotine) because he was having poor circulation near his spine. needless to say, hes doing a lot better.

i would expect better than this from you DC2.

 

[pcrdude]

Either you are bored and doing it on purpose or you are extremely dense, I cannot post any more evidence other than the 100% conclusive evidence I have already posted multiple times.

I didn't see any evidence at all. All I saw was rhetoric and opinion.

There is an entire scientific field dedicated to toxicology. It is that area of science from which I am making my arguments.

If you read what I am putting down, you might learn something.

Just sayin'



Its all good.

You may want to reconsider attacking my intelligence, and focus on the argument. To attack me instead of my points is a logical fallacy.

 

[Cromeus]

Consider this: No matter what toxic chemical you overconsume, known or unknown, who is it you're supposed to call? The Poison Control Center.

I've shall noticed that the absorption of nicotine through skin hasn't been mentioned much. I'm sure that it would be very difficult to keep down that 16oz glass of water with 1400mg of nic in it, but what if you spilled a tablespoon of 100mg/ml on your shirt?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[DC2]

Well, this thread is going much better than expected.

The premise of the thread is that "Nicotine is not a poison".

No, the premise of this thread is that everything is a poison.

And the point of this thread is that certain people you will encounter will call nicotine a poison...
In order to denounce the use of electronic cigarettes.

Don't let them do that to you.

 

[pcrdude]

Since nicotine can be absorbed through the skin, it may reach toxic levels if you aren't careful.

 

[pcrdude]

Here us a quote from the founding father of modern toxicology. It clearly makes DC2's point:

"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison…." Paracelsus (1493-1541)

 

[DC2]

i would expect better than this from you DC2.

Yeah, well...

I didn't realize some people would get so touchy about this.
I guess it's because I don't have any kids, and I do not DIY nor do I ever intend to.

If the moderators agree that this thread title is irresponsible, I'm sure they will change it.
Regardless, the point of this thread still stands.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Nicotine, in the concentrations the overwhelming majority of us use it, is most correctly called a drug.



Roaring via Tapatalk

 

[happydave]

Well, this thread is going much better than expected.



No, the premise of this thread is that everything is a poison.

And the point of this thread is that certain people you will encounter will call nicotine a poison...
In order to denounce the use of electronic cigarettes.

Don't let them do that to you.

no Sir, Dose makes the Poison.. not everything is a Poison...

Yes, you could poison your self with water, that does not mean water is a poison.

 

[DC2]

no Sir, Dose makes the Poison..

Yeah, I said that in the opening post of this thread.