"Don't Start Vaping!"

[WhiteHighlights]

I can only add to the anecdotal evidence that the newer generations of PV's have the potential for a higher success rate.. In Sept. 2013 I impulsively picked up a Blu starter kit. It was less than stellar, but it opened the magical vaping door and was enough to get me to temporarily stop my 25yr, 1 PAD habit. I started researching, found ECF, and bought a Provari. I'm approaching 14mos smoke free. The topper on my Provari has changed from clearos to a kayfun or a dripper so vaping is better than it was a year ago. I know I would not have been able to quit for this length of time with just Blu - it would have been relegated to the failure list along with patches & gum.

I had a similar reaction to many when I first saw that ad -- yah, don't start coz you're killing our cash cow

 

[TyPie]

You've never understood it because it makes no sense. Try to picture any other scenario in which a medicine that was no more effective than a placebo would be able to gain FDA approval as an "effective" remedy.

Couple this with the fact that cessation products containing nicotine and PG have been approved for LONG TERM USE by the FDA.
(which, of course, means that I smell rat(s) somehere within the FDA and / or Big Pharma. )

 

[VNeil]

The big secret in vaping may be WTA. I have not tried it, and I don't need it (yet) after 3 months without a puff on an analog, but I read nothing but good things here about it. Makes you wonder why Big Pharma, with all their research dollars, has stayed away from that? Maybe because it is so effective?
If WTA becomes more widespread, it may do some interesting things to the cessation rate. I am absolutely convinced there is something extremely addictive in analog smoke that is missing from conventional eJuice, and I think that has a lot to do with failure rates. That may be in WTA?

 

[cwoodnola]

Vaping has definitely cured my habit of smoking traditional cigarettes. Over a year since I lit one of those nasty things. As for my addiction to nicotine or as I like to call it my recreational vaping of juices containing nicotine. It's not something I want to cure. Like a cup of coffee or a drink I get pleasure out of my nicotine products
( Vaping) and I am glad that I have found a delivery system that does not completely trash my body like traditional cigarettes do. I no longer have these horrible cravings for a cigarette. I can go hours after vaping without the intense cravings which leads me to believe that there was something else in the cigarette that was creating that incurable desire to smoke other than nicotine. In my state it is already illegal to sell products to minors and stores that I frequent don't. It would seem that there are a lot of other things that health experts could spend there time on other that trying to ban e-cigs. As for the we must protect our children argument, maybe some parenting and education would be more effective than banning e-cigs. I can tell by the way I feel that vaping instead of smoking has made me a healthier person. For a non smoker or non nicotine user you have the information if you haven't been a nicotine user all your life I wouldn't suggest you start. But for those of us who have used nicotine all of our lives vaping is a better choice that other methods from big tobacco and big pharma.

 

[Kent C]

Vaping has definitely cured my habit of smoking traditional cigarettes. Over a year since I lit one of those nasty things. As for my addiction to nicotine or as I like to call it my recreational vaping of juices containing nicotine. It's not something I want to cure. Like a cup of coffee or a drink I get pleasure out of my nicotine products
( Vaping) and I am glad that I have found a delivery system that does not completely trash my body like traditional cigarettes do. I no longer have these horrible cravings for a cigarette. I can go hours after vaping without the intense cravings which leads me to believe that there was something else in the cigarette that was creating that incurable desire to smoke other than nicotine. ......

Reflects my own thoughts. I'll never go 'zero nic' - I LIKE nicotine in the bloodstream - I like the very odd attributes of both relaxing and maintaining focus - no other substances of which I'm aware do that "Relaxed focus" is the state of mind that many athletes attempt to achieve (the "zone") and it is when they achieve that is where their game is the best! And... it can be rather hard to gain or maintain but when they do, they excel.

 

[AndriaD]

Even cigalikes can evoke the idea 'this could work' or 'this could be a valid alternative'. Once that thought is registered, for those who want some change, it's only a matter of time or effort to find the exact device that fits.

That was *precisely* what I got from my 4 wks of eRoll use -- proof of concept. On my first full day smoke-free, I got my vv3+T3S, and that gave me the realization that my earlier *certainty* was totally wrong; it *doesn't* have to be shaped like a cigarette to give me what I need -- and that opened the door to finding just the right device for *me* -- and that really does seem to be the key for those of us who successfully quit, having the device that suits our own needs the best, whatever those needs may be. Some can't do without the massive hits that a mech and sub-ohm dripper provide; some, like me, find drippers too "fiddly" and prefer big honkin tanks for convenience, and rebuildables like a kayfun reduce the "fiddle factor" still further, since all those really need, once there's a good coil inside, are regular wick changes.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

The big secret in vaping may be WTA. I have not tried it, and I don't need it (yet) after 3 months without a puff on an analog, but I read nothing but good things here about it. Makes you wonder why Big Pharma, with all their research dollars, has stayed away from that? Maybe because it is so effective?
If WTA becomes more widespread, it may do some interesting things to the cessation rate. I am absolutely convinced there is something extremely addictive in analog smoke that is missing from conventional eJuice, and I think that has a lot to do with failure rates. That may be in WTA?

Absolutely. WTA is 90%-95% nicotine -- but that other 5%-10% contains anabatine, anabasine, nornicotine, and the MAOIs harman and norharman -- the full alkaloid spectrum present in tobacco. I don't know the addictive potential for anabatine, anabasine, or nornicotine, but I know that MAOIs keep the brain's neurotransmitters at optimum levels, since it counteracts monoamine oxidase, which breaks down those neurotransmitters.

Andria

EDIT: I suspect BP doesn't want to get into the WTA business, because that would interfere with sales of SSRIs. And if more people quit smoking, they not only wouldn't sell those people anymore useless NRTs, but probably not so many anti-cancer drugs either.

 

[VNeil]

So when is WTA going to go mainstream and show up in every Vape shop? We can fight back with cessation effectiveness- take the offensive!

(I know where this would go... it would probably just incite the ANTZ and the FDA and... over the added chemicals. Obfuscating an already losing battle)

 

[pamdis]

So when is WTA going to go mainstream and show up in every Vape shop? We can fight back with cessation effectiveness- take the offensive!

(I know where this would go... it would probably just incite the ANTZ and the FDA and... over the added chemicals. Obfuscating an already losing battle)

And if FDA decides to be 'reasonable' and accept AEMSA's standards in it's final rule, WTA's won't be allowed at all.

 

[Nate760]

(I know where this would go... it would probably just incite the ANTZ and the FDA and... over the added chemicals. Obfuscating an already losing battle)

The FDA is probably only vaguely aware that WTA even exists. Keeping up with newer product innovations isn't exactly their strong suit. They're still scrambling to figure out what to do with the second-gen PVs that have been on the market for nearly half a decade.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

The FDA is probably only vaguely aware that WTA even exists. Keeping up with newer product innovations isn't exactly their strong suit. They're still scrambling to figure out what to do with the second-gen PVs that have been on the market for nearly half a decade.

This is why if they do any regulating at all it should be done as any other consumer product, purity, ingredient listing and battery safety. Vaporizer technology is moving faster than computers at this time which is why WHO is calling them ENDS. That is the only name that can keep up with the changing face of the e-cigarette.

 

[Kent C]

This is why if they do any regulating at all it should be done as any other consumer product, purity, ingredient listing and battery safety. Vaporizer technology is moving faster than computers at this time which is why WHO is calling them ENDS. That is the only name that can keep up with the changing face of the e-cigarette.

This is the END
My only friend, the END

 

[AndriaD]

So when is WTA going to go mainstream and show up in every Vape shop? We can fight back with cessation effectiveness- take the offensive!

(I know where this would go... it would probably just incite the ANTZ and the FDA and... over the added chemicals. Obfuscating an already losing battle)

I'm not sure WTA needs to be mainstream; it seems to primarily help those who have some clear disorder of their brain chemistry -- depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorders, ADD/ADHD, Parkinsonism, etc -- or some existing inflammatory disorder (for which anabatine is already being tested) such as ulcerative colitis, RA, and the like.

Although I've struggled most of my life with depression and anxiety, my first time around, back in the spring, I was doing alright without any WTA (though I did suffer some depression/alienation around the 3wk and 3mo points, they were very brief episodes, about a week); I didn't suffer any particular cravings that more regular-nicotine vaping couldn't handle very well, and that seems to be the case for what appears to be a majority, at least, a majority of those here at the forum. WTA seems to be "high-test" for those who really do need it, lest they return to smoking for the things they get from smoking which nicotine alone doesn't address. For those who can get by without WTA, it's probably for the best that they not complicate the addiction issue any further.

Andria

 

[Steamix]

Nice ad

Although it's done in white and green it IS a white flag.

Ever heard of the Streisand-effect, Mr. BP ?

Guess the golden watertaps for the learjet will have to wait for awhile as far as BP CEO's go

 

[dragonpuff]

Absolutely. WTA is 90%-95% nicotine -- but that other 5%-10% contains anabatine, anabasine, nornicotine, and the MAOIs harman and norharman -- the full alkaloid spectrum present in tobacco. I don't know the addictive potential for anabatine, anabasine, or nornicotine, but I know that MAOIs keep the brain's neurotransmitters at optimum levels, since it counteracts monoamine oxidase, which breaks down those neurotransmitters.

Tobacco alkaloids such as anabasine and nornicotine (there are 5 main ones but I can't remember all of their names offhand) are still being researched so it's unclear exactly how they work just yet, but so far we know that they affect cells in a very similar way as nicotine. It is known for sure at this point that the combined effect of these alkaloids with nicotine is the main "cocktail" that makes nicotine so addictive, whereas without them nicotine is barely addictive at all.

I believe that a high enough dose of nicotine can compensate for these missing alkaloids in most people, allowing many of us to switch to vaping effortlessly (because these alkaloids act so much like nicotine that you can basically just replace them with more nicotine). Others, however, may need that exact replacement.

(In my last year of college I did a class presentation on this topic, and I suggested that nornicotine be researched as a potential aid for smoking cessation.)

 

[AndriaD]

I believe that a high enough dose of nicotine can compensate for these missing alkaloids in most people, allowing many of us to switch to vaping effortlessly (because these alkaloids act so much like nicotine that you can basically just replace them with more nicotine). Others, however, may need that exact replacement.

Which may be why, for most people, most of the time, just vaping more or a higher nic level, may be enough to get them by.

I read that article in the library that rolygate wrote about WTA, and since there's no real way of knowing if WTA presents a greater health risk that plain nicotine, I definitely wouldn't recommend it as a "mainstream" thing; I think it's main value is if a person is at the point of going back to smoking, which of course would be far worse -- then, as a last-ditch effort, WTA could really save the day.

Andria

 

[Katya]

Tobacco alkaloids such as anabasine and nornicotine (there are 5 main ones but I can't remember all of their names offhand) are still being researched so it's unclear exactly how they work just yet, but so far we know that they affect cells in a very similar way as nicotine. It is known for sure at this point that the combined effect of these alkaloids with nicotine is the main "cocktail" that makes nicotine so addictive, whereas without them nicotine is barely addictive at all.

I believe that a high enough dose of nicotine can compensate for these missing alkaloids in most people, allowing many of us to switch to vaping effortlessly (because these alkaloids act so much like nicotine that you can basically just replace them with more nicotine). Others, however, may need that exact replacement.

(In my last year of college I did a class presentation on this topic, and I suggested that nornicotine be researched as a potential aid for smoking cessation.)

Yeah, the problem is that we don't really know which minor alkaloids help, how they help and in what ratios... The research is still ongoing, AFAIK.

I have tried them all myself--Swedish snus, Ariva and Stonewalls, Anatabloc, CigRX, Yerba Mate, WTA eliquids. And I almost tried selegiline--but was talked out of that; that was a bad idea, apparently.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-etc-filler-type-cartos-356.html#post5554223

 

[snork]

I'm not sure WTA needs to be mainstream; it seems to primarily help those who have some clear disorder of their brain chemistry -- depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorders, ADD/ADHD, Parkinsonism, etc -- or some existing inflammatory disorder (for which anabatine is already being tested) such as ulcerative colitis, RA, and the like.

Although I've struggled most of my life with depression and anxiety, my first time around, back in the spring, I was doing alright without any WTA (though I did suffer some depression/alienation around the 3wk and 3mo points, they were very brief episodes, about a week); I didn't suffer any particular cravings that more regular-nicotine vaping couldn't handle very well, and that seems to be the case for what appears to be a majority, at least, a majority of those here at the forum. WTA seems to be "high-test" for those who really do need it, lest they return to smoking for the things they get from smoking which nicotine alone doesn't address. For those who can get by without WTA, it's probably for the best that they not complicate the addiction issue any further.

Andria

Arg. Not even. I've always been the straight shootinest rootin tootoinest cowboy you'd ever meet. WTA is just plain yummy.

 

[AndriaD]

Yeah, the problem is that we don't really know which minor alkaloids help, how they help and in what ratios... The research is still ongoing, AFAIK.

I have tried them all myself--Swedish snus, Ariva and Stonewalls, Anatabloc, CigRX, Yerba Mate, WTA eliquids. And I almost tried selegiline--but was talked out of that; that was a bad idea, apparently.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-etc-filler-type-cartos-356.html#post5554223

My own opinion, informed by nothing but my own experience -- which is very limited! -- is that the main benefit of WTA *may* be those MAOIs. Of course, I do think my difficulties after my appendectomy had a lot to do with the ongoing problems in my colon, so who knows, maybe it was the anti-inflammatory properties of anabatine that helped me the most.

Or maybe, the different chemicals may do different things -- could be it was the anabatine that helped those initial cravings, which may have been provoked by the colon problems, but it was the MAOIs that got me past the emotional trouble-spots at 3wks and 3mos.

The hard part is that the brain just sends a craving, whatever part or chemical it is that the brain identifies as a need -- cravings are kinda generic.

Andria

 

[VNeil]

Andria, by "mainstream", I just meant that it would be readily available in Vape shots (B&M and online) for those that choose it. Like everything else in Wape-land it should be optional, for sure. As it stands, I doubt that 1% of the new Vapers even know about it. Some significant percentage would likely find it very helpful, and probably make a difference in their probabilities of success.

I don't previously recall any suggestion that WTA only works for people with disorders. I thought it was just a matter of how people react to the various chemical addictions in cigs. But the reason doesn't matter. What matters is that the WTA option is not available to most people that venture into Vaping for the purposes of quitting their smoking habit. Every Vape shop should have some WTA juices, and staff that understand how to recommend it and when, and how to educate the consumer.

I just ordered some unflavored WTA juice (just a 15 ml trial) to mix with my DIY juices for my wife, who may need it. She's in the early stages and is dual using now. I want it onhand, as an option, and it's something I can't get at my local vape shop. I'll probably try it myself but won't make a habit of it because I don't want to add to my chemical addiction list . I seem to be doing fine (at 90days) without it.