Dr. F Metals in e-cigarettes are not a health concern.
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oh my I need to curb my ecf trolling there is always something of interest that I wish to expound upon and absolutely no disrespect intended to anyone and getting critical about a little point may be the result of my declining years however thought I would mention it anyway Dr F and his team added a tiny sentence at the end "Finally, there is no reason for a non -smoker to be exposed......"
Actually I suspect that there could be all sorts of reasons and a number of applications for ecig/ or vaping and one would of course be weight control and given that the writing is on the wall regarding a similar all out campaign regarding unhealthy weights with the resulting bans on various fast foods and law suits up the gizmo standing in the lines as the next keep em busy keep em confused keep em spending money etc -would it not have been wiser to rephrase this parting sentence? my opinion and mine alone
Actually I suspect that there could be all sorts of reasons and a number of applications for ecig/ or vaping and one would of course be weight control and given that the writing is on the wall regarding a similar all out campaign regarding unhealthy weights with the resulting bans on various fast foods and law suits up the gizmo standing in the lines as the next keep em busy keep em confused keep em spending money etc -would it not have been wiser to rephrase this parting sentence? my opinion and mine alone
hello GutWrench just my little comment/response on Dr F studies regarding possible/potential impurities in ecig equipment the link to the study is at the top of the page in red - please forgive me for not being able to link it for you I have rarely spent much time on forums but am quite thoroughly enjoying this one perhaps a result of my declining years - Carolyn
Caro123 - I too was disappointed to see that phrase. Look, either the levels are acceptably safe for human beings or they are not. As much as I love what Dr Farsalinos has done in terms of good research around vaping, comparing it only to the effects of smoking is not enough. We also need to see the comparatives to breathing ambient air in the real-life situations of - for example - walking down a city street. What exposure levels do people already have in terms of metals from vehicle exhaust, off-gassing from construction materials etc.
My question would be if the study was performed with clones or authentic atomisers or both
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agree Tache of course quite frankly I gave up some of those worries in my forties - age can be a lot more fun than I thought -perhaps Dr F will be joined by other reasonably credible researchers - unfortunately I gave up my awe in research about 15- 20 years ago when they restructured health Canada and a lead scientist resigned in protest somewhere around the walkerton water tragedy -still, credible researchers, and a product concept that works, and a change in societal norms ie acceptance of some minor benefits of nicotine - can move towards a win that may eventually trickle down to the schizophrenics whom I care for - it is my hope!
A lot of people seem to think that vaping is some kind of exclusive club, membership open only to former smokers, but just because they think it, doesn't make it true. But he's probably saying that in order to put a sock in ANTZ mouths about the dangers of non-smokers starting to vape. Anything that can induce ANTZ mouths to shut up is a great idea.
Andria
It's not that I'm that worried about ambient exposure per se - It's more to provide an appropriate comparable. If non-smokers (of course, I happen to be one!) already are exposed in the course of daily life, it eliminates the last shred of justification for the inhumane vilification and draconian restrictions towards smokers and (albeit to a lesser extent), vapers.
I don't think the benefits of nicotine are minor at all -- anything that can prevent or delay the onset of any type of senility is a MAJOR benefit! And for a WIDE assortment of mental/emotional disorders, nicotine seems to have a "coordinating" effect on neurotransmitters -- another major benefit!
Andria
i wouldn't about the DR.'s last comment. i assume since he has
studied the affects of smoking on the cardiovascular system
he looks at the subject as compared to smoking which he
knows quite a bit about.
he knows the long term studies won't be in for quite some time
and does not want to be accused of luring the children into a
possibly bad habit. considering the field he is in i am sure he
is well aware of the children argument and all its nuances.
good study.
mike
studied the affects of smoking on the cardiovascular system
he looks at the subject as compared to smoking which he
knows quite a bit about.
he knows the long term studies won't be in for quite some time
and does not want to be accused of luring the children into a
possibly bad habit. considering the field he is in i am sure he
is well aware of the children argument and all its nuances.
good study.
mike
yep Andria I would say this is correct info not because of any formal research - although I do believe it has been done BUT because in my experience and the numerous patients I have had over the years tobacco / nicotine was used and many would say abused but I will say used extensively in fact in my earlier days before some newer antipsychotics the only way to be able to relate/ bond/ establish a therapeutic bond was around a smoke so of course way back when I would ask myself why - we are beginning to see the why and what I suspected all along is showing up hand over fist and now in 2015 we are seeing vaping what a freaking miracle if I do say so myself it isn't there yet and there are rocky waters to chart but I do believe it will get there and I sincerely hope I am around to see it maybe then I will be able to find peace around some tobacco control horror stories and there are many!
For the part in bold, I think he attempted to cover that when he said that the studies on environmental exposure("second hand") were useless "because such emissions are by definition minimal and of no health concern to anyone."
But I agree, the final statement is unnecessary.
Most of 'our guys' were part of Tobacco Control for a while, except they were the THR faction. But there has always been the idea of stopping non-smokers from smoking. We saw it here early on (@2009) where vets here would discourage non-smoking newbies would come here to ask questions. Sometimes mods would just shut down the thread. If they were found to be underage, they were banned. Something, 'as an industry', the ANTZ would find odd, since "we're" trying to hook children. lol
That's the whole point of the TC's fear of 'renormalizing' smoking via vaping - which we know now won't necessarily happen, but it was high on their priorities for such a long time and never having a way to isolate nicotine from smoking, they had no interest in the benefits from nicotine. I think Dr. F's last paragraph is just a 'hold-over' from the TC orientation with regards to that. But... yeah, unnecessary :- )
From comments on another thread with some anti-nicotine comments, which I cannot find now... I thought how obesity, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, Rheumatoid Arthritis increasing trends and death from them could be a direct result of the TC efforts to stop smoking. While there is the 'cause/correlation' problem, many of the graphs on those diseases match the decline of smokers. So that 480,000 deaths (fake number) might be offset by the damage caused from not smoking, as well as the increase in healthcare costs related to them.
Alzheimer's Statistics
That's the whole point of the TC's fear of 'renormalizing' smoking via vaping - which we know now won't necessarily happen, but it was high on their priorities for such a long time and never having a way to isolate nicotine from smoking, they had no interest in the benefits from nicotine. I think Dr. F's last paragraph is just a 'hold-over' from the TC orientation with regards to that. But... yeah, unnecessary :- )
From comments on another thread with some anti-nicotine comments, which I cannot find now... I thought how obesity, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, Rheumatoid Arthritis increasing trends and death from them could be a direct result of the TC efforts to stop smoking. While there is the 'cause/correlation' problem, many of the graphs on those diseases match the decline of smokers. So that 480,000 deaths (fake number) might be offset by the damage caused from not smoking, as well as the increase in healthcare costs related to them.
Alzheimer's Statistics
Thus making the case that the mass brainwashing attempted by the ANTZ is by far the biggest "health threat" this country has ever suffered. I always knew control freaks were evil; this just proves it.
Andria
That, or possibly arrogant incompetence of doctors who seem infected by a virulent strain of fact-resistant stupidity
How Many Die From Medical Mistakes in U.S. Hospitals? - ProPublica
"That would make medical errors the third-leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease, which is the first, and cancer, which is second."
And: wiki
Misdiagnosis is the leading cause of medical error in out patient facilities.
And as the ANTZ like to say about smoking - 'it's preventable'.
And: wiki
Misdiagnosis is the leading cause of medical error in out patient facilities.
And as the ANTZ like to say about smoking - 'it's preventable'.
Add to that what appears, at least anecdotally, a depression "epidemic". I've been musing for a while that the 30% or so of the population that have quit smoking basically cut off their MAOI's - so perhaps that's why every second commercial on TV is touting anti-depressants. I believe that my own system went through a weird re-adjustment after my abrupt, accidental smoking cessation.
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