E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[MadmanMacguyver]

and as to why bother...well...it provides me comfort...some sense of normalcy in a world that seemingly none exists anymore...this is me I'm not normal...I am not a baseline for the others or maybe I am...I watched my grandfather smoke a pipe or in his later years chew a cigar while painting or drawing charcoals...

To me its a sense of stability...calm...I have no such thing in my life and its the thing I need the most...I am literally bound and chained by that which surrounds me...in chaos I am chaos...in serenity I am serenity....In war I am the thing that you don't want to see looking back at you...but above all all my life I have striven to be more than the sum of my parts to be a light shining so that others may see in the darkness...and one day I hope to achieve my goals....PVs are a step in that direction as they give me a connection to my past despite being something different and new...and my past especially the younger years are the only peace I have ever known...

One day I hope to have that peace again...

-M3

 

[nitejanitor]

What I meant by why bother-i guess because I choose not to puff anymore I guess I figured once you all got to 0 it just wouldn't be necessary other then for fun I guess? I know someone will twist this but thats just what I'd do which means its right for me but not for the next guy.

 

[MagnusEunson]

In my case when I'm vaping 0mg it's to avoid doing other fairly compulsive unhealthy things. Does that point to a larger problem? Perhaps. I posted in this thread a long time ago about that. Some people avoid some of the other reflex options they have with vaping. If you vape and it'll help you control your appetite? Why not?

More importantly than anything else.... who the donkey is anybody to tell me what I should be doing? It's totally irrelevant to the Q board. It's pure conjecture and judgement. If the state goal of the Q board is to help people stop smoking and the eventual cessation of nicotine then what part of e-cigarettes can't be compatible with that?

All the other distractions are designed to consume time and draw people into lengthy sidetracked random discussions. -Magnus

 

[lolady]

I'm actually partial to good ole Hershey's.

And you think those low fat foods taste good. A pattern is beginning to emerge here, Missy.

 

[Halsey]

and as to why bother...well...it provides me comfort...some sense of normalcy in a world that seemingly none exists anymore...this is me I'm not normal...I am not a baseline for the others or maybe I am...I watched my grandfather smoke a pipe or in his later years chew a cigar while painting or drawing charcoals...

To me its a sense of stability...calm...I have no such thing in my life and its the thing I need the most...I am literally bound and chained by that which surrounds me...in chaos I am chaos...in serenity I am serenity....In war I am the thing that you don't want to see looking back at you...but above all all my life I have striven to be more than the sum of my parts to be a light shining so that others may see in the darkness...and one day I hope to achieve my goals....PVs are a step in that direction as they give me a connection to my past despite being something different and new...and my past especially the younger years are the only peace I have ever known...

One day I hope to have that peace again...

-Madman

This resonates well with me. I've also always shifted rapidly with my surroundings, and in a life of bouncing around the globe, my smokes were always my constant. No matter where I was, what the circumstances, if I could get that few minutes, the smokes were a constant, the same, normal, a bit of calm amidst whatever. My PV is rapidly replacing this part of smoking for me.

Halsey

 

[lolady]

I guess I figured once you all got to 0 it just wouldn't be necessary other then for fun I guess?

Yes, fun. With 0 nicotine or a big dish of it. Because for me, neither fun nor nicotine are wrong.

I want to be "free" of Marlboros, but I have no desire to be "free" of puffing something that tastes and smells good and is better for me.

I could live the rest of my life addicted to nicotine and seldom, if ever, give it any thought at all, one way or the other.

Sometimes I see messages there that give me the impression, that the writer just can't conceive of people not having their same beliefs, and as a result they're viewing behaviors and attitudes as if the people DID have the beliefs, but were just tromping all over them on purpose out of malice or rebellion or perversity or something, when that's so not the case, it's just that the beliefs aren't there!

As in 404. File not found. Your search did not return any beliefs with the name nicotine, please choose a different term and try again. Addressee unknown. I'm sorry, there's no one here by that name, could some other belief help you?

That kind of not there.

Maybe that's one of the reasons for some of the communication disconnects?

 

[Randyrtx]

What I meant by why bother-i guess because I choose not to puff anymore I guess I figured once you all got to 0 it just wouldn't be necessary other then for fun I guess? I know someone will twist this but thats just what I'd do which means its right for me but not for the next guy.

Beth, you have to understand... the "addiction" folks think (or at least seem to imply) that it's all about the addiction to nicotine, that it is the sole reason why people smoke. If that were true, then NRT would have a far better success rate.

It isn't all about the nicotine! It's much, much complicated than that. It's also about the ritual of smoking, the feel of the smoke, the taste of the tobacco; every aspect of smoking that we become accustomed to over the years plays a part in it.

But it's the smoke that's the deadly part! Remove the danger caused by the smoke, and you can retain all the other aspects of the habit without the harm.

I didn't smoke because I had to; I smoked because I wanted to. That desire was the "demon" that kept me smoking, not addiction to nicotine!

Now, I vape because I want to, not because I have to. I still have all the pleasurable aspects that I had with smoking, but now I don't have the smoke killing me.

That's why I personally get offended by all the "addiction" and "junkie-thinking" rhetoric. This is a conscious choice for me, not a hopeless addiction to something that is causing me harm.

 

[LibertariaNate]

For me, the hardest part about giving up the cigarettes has been the depression. Not the "I lost a dear friend and I miss them and it will pass in days" kind of depression. I'm talking about the "I've lost interest in everything I used to enjoy and am starting to think 'bad' thoughts" kind of depression. I can be "buzzing" on nicotine and still be depressed. For me, it's not about the nicotine. Sure, it helps to somewhat take the "edge" off, but whether I'm using my PV constantly or haven't touched it all day it's still there. The nicotine may have been what got me hooked to cigarettes, but it's not the reason I kept going back to them. I've been taking some nutritional supplements which have helped, but I feel like I'm at the point where I'm starting to regress. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't want to take prescription anti-depressants and I don't want to go back to tobacco of any kind.

Point being... The nicotine got me hooked... The other chemicals kept me hooked.

 

[lolady]

Aren't there some juices that have the other stuff? Not the bad other stuff, just the other alkaloids. Maybe you could get some of that, if it helped, you'd pretty much know it was those other things in cigarettes that were causing the problem, their absence, I mean...

 

[nitejanitor]

For me smoking was a close friend-no matter what I had my smokes,when worked sucked or I got a raise-you know just the normal day to day stuff. I know thats why I've been fighting depression besides all the garbage of why me with the heart attack. That must be why I keep hounding my Dr. for some feel good drug-to make up for quitting smoking & having a boring life maybe haha-who knows.

 

[Randyrtx]

Nate, I have the same problem. The most serious consequence of quitting smoking for me was the onset of major depression and anxiety issues. If I had known then what I know now, I would have made the connection. As it was, I started taking regular anti-depressants, with anti-anxiety meds as needed. I strongly believe this new "dependance" to be a result of the other alkaloids in tobacco besides nicotine.

This is why I posted much much earlier in this thread (or perhaps the other one), that I was interested in WTA liquids. Others use snus or other means to replace the missing alkaloids.

This rather begs the question: was I biologically prone to depression before I began smoking, or is it a result of smoking for so many years? No way to know for sure, but I suspect the former, and that smoking was a form of self-medication for all those years.

I'm terrible at posting references, but I have read things that validate this.

 

[Randyrtx]

Aren't there some juices that have the other stuff? Not the bad other stuff, just the other alkaloids. Maybe you could get some of that, if it helped, you'd pretty much know it was those other things in cigarettes that were causing the problem, their absence, I mean...

Not yet, but supposedly a supplier is working on it.

 

[lolady]

Not yet, but supposedly a supplier is working on it.

Then they'll have to test it on somebody...

I'm just sayin'

 

[LibertariaNate]

To my knowledge there has been discussions about making a juice with alkaloids, but it hasn't come to market yet.

I've made two major changes within the last year. July 28, 2010 I gave up alcohol. I quit drinking for two reasons: If I wasn't already an alcoholic, I was quickly becoming one. Also, alcohol was a huge trigger for smoking and I wanted to quit smoking. While giving up the alcohol was certainly hard, in hindsight it was a cakewalk compared to this. Here in Utah, the only place to purchase (hard) alcohol is at the state liquor store. I simply avoided going to them. No depression, but the occasional "a drink sounds nice" thought. I'm too lazy to get into the car and drive somewhere after I've come home from work.

Two months ago today, I smoked my last cigarette. The first couple of weeks were easy. I had my e-cig to hold me over when I had any cravings for an analog. Then the depression started. I've tried to quit many times in the past with various quit methods: cold turkey, patch, gum, lozenge, etc. Usually I didn't make it passed the first few days, but I did quit for more than three weeks on two occasions. Those times, I thought it was because I was still craving the nicotine, but in one case I was using the patch and still getting nicotine. The other time was cold turkey and the nicotine should have been out of my system by then. I started to feel crazy and wanted some sort of "normalcy" so I went back to smoking.

This time around, it has been mostly through sheer will power that I'm still not smoking. I'm not sure how much longer that will power is going to last.

 

[MagnusEunson]

For me, the hardest part about giving up the cigarettes has been the depression. Not the "I lost a dear friend and I miss them and it will pass in days" kind of depression. I'm talking about the "I've lost interest in everything I used to enjoy and am starting to think 'bad' thoughts" kind of depression. I can be "buzzing" on nicotine and still be depressed. For me, it's not about the nicotine. Sure, it helps to somewhat take the "edge" off, but whether I'm using my PV constantly or haven't touched it all day it's still there. The nicotine may have been what got me hooked to cigarettes, but it's not the reason I kept going back to them. I've been taking some nutritional supplements which have helped, but I feel like I'm at the point where I'm starting to regress. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't want to take prescription anti-depressants and I don't want to go back to tobacco of any kind.

What nicotine level are you at? My wife had a similar reaction and had to up her nicotine level after leaving analogs to balance it out. The other thing she did was just add B12. She experimented w/ St. John's and 5-HTP as well and that seemed to make things a bit worse actually.

I'm with you on prescription anti-depressants though... actually, I need to dig up some things I did for another ECFer on this topic. Various things they put in their vape and the PubMed papers I found on them. Not entirely sure about long term safety but you're a smart man so I'll let you decide. -Magnus

 

[MagnusEunson]

+1 on SNUS as another transition tool.

I've got to better organize ECF stuff. I've got something here... -Magnus

 

[Randyrtx]

I tried snus once but the version I got was WAY too strong; I was buzzing like I had chewed 10 pieces of nicotine gum at once!

I haven't worked up the courage to try it again in a MUCH lighter strength.

 

[LibertariaNate]

Nate, I have the same problem. The most serious consequence of quitting smoking for me was the onset of major depression and anxiety issues. If I had known then what I know now, I would have made the connection. As it was, I started taking regular anti-depressants, with anti-anxiety meds as needed. I strongly believe this new "dependance" to be a result of the other alkaloids in tobacco besides nicotine.

This is why I posted much much earlier in this thread (or perhaps the other one), that I was interested in WTA liquids. Others use snus or other means to replace the missing alkaloids.

This rather begs the question: was I biologically prone to depression before I began smoking, or is it a result of smoking for so many years? No way to know for sure, but I suspect the former, and that smoking was a form of self-medication for all those years.

I'm terrible at posting references, but I have read things that validate this.

I've read enough anecdotal evidence from here to know my situation is not unique. Until now, I had never dealt with a prolonged instance of depression. The occasional "blues" like everyone, but they only lasted a few hours to a day. Certainly nothing major.

 

[LibertariaNate]

What nicotine level are you at? My wife had a similar reaction and had to up her nicotine level after leaving analogs to balance it out. The other thing she did was just add B12. She experimented w/ St. John's and 5-HTP as well and that seemed to make things a bit worse actually.

I'm with you on prescription anti-depressants though... actually, I need to dig up some things I did for another ECFer on this topic. Various things they put in their vape and the PubMed papers I found on them. Not entirely sure about long term safety but you're a smart man so I'll let you decide. -Magnus

I started at 24mg and am now around 18mg. I'm getting to the point where that's too high.

I have 0 desire to take prescription anti-depressants. They may help or they might not, but the side effects terrify me. Even if they only affect 1/100 people, I am (un)lucky enough that I would be that 1 person. No thanks. I want to avoid tobacco products of any kind which is why I really haven't looked into snus. I also want to ween the nicotine down to 0 as well.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Alright... one of the blogs here had a great summary that I know Randy had seen/commented on once.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/642-madame-psychosis-summary-pt-1.html

And then I'm told that Vapelicious « Custom e-Liquid Shop & Flavor Science Blog will take a custom WTA order but it's not a regular product yet.

And then the thread on the TAP at http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/84559-tobacco-alkaloid-pill.html ..

A great informational thread but nothing horribly useful on the first few pages was http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ne-maois-towards-more-effective-e-liquid.html .

And now I'm trying to find the vendor that did B vitamins and others in solution that I found reasonable PubMed references for in terms of absorption and efficacy.

-Magnus


EDIT: This was Dvap's friend and you can contact him for something that he is lab testing... http://www.vapersforum.com/showpost.php?p=685976&postcount=138 ..