E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[kristin]

I was wondering why Beth chose to post that thread outside of the e-cig area? Beth?

It was Abby, in Greenlover's post about waiting for an answer on using e-cigs. Looks like she's staying after all.

 

[MagnusEunson]

It makes absolutely no sense to classify nicotine as a highly addictive substance. If it were, nicotine in NRT would never be available OTC, but would instead be required to be administered under a strictly managed smoking-cessation plan by a physician.

Remember that the 'highly addictive' category also includes such OTC offerings like Afrin and some other nasal decongestants (albeit for completely different reasons). And NRTs are to include overdose safety mechanisms as well because of nicotine being 'highly addictive'.

And nicotine, in its pure form, as been shown to be addictive. However, it's been categorized a 'weak' addictive in more than one study BUT so has the active ingredient in ...... on occasion. It's going to effect everybody differently. Like the very real fact that some people become addicted to ibuprofen. Ibuprofen is an interesting example because there is a group of people that is it theorized are genetically prone to ibuprofen addiction in India (where they originally thought the culprit was ibuprofen-codeine mixtures).

Anyhow... Afrin is evil. ;-) -Magnus

 

[ShannonA]

Remember that the 'highly addictive' category also includes such OTC offerings like Afrin and some other nasal decongestants (albeit for completely different reasons). And NRTs are to include overdose safety mechanisms as well because of nicotine being 'highly addictive'.

And nicotine, in its pure form, as been shown to be addictive. However, it's been categorized a 'weak' addictive in more than one study BUT so has the active ingredient in ...... on occasion. It's going to effect everybody differently. Like the very real fact that some people become addicted to ibuprofen. Ibuprofen is an interesting example because there is a group of people that is it theorized are genetically prone to ibuprofen addiction in India (where they originally thought the culprit was ibuprofen-codeine mixtures).

Anyhow... Afrin is evil. ;-) -Magnus

Ibuprofen addictive...whod've thunk?

 

[MagnusEunson]

It hasn't been determined specifically for e-cigarettes, but it is well established that 99% (if not more) of the illnesses and deaths related to tobacco use is from smoking it. Ergo - remove the smoke and remove 99% of the risk.

But where? I don't want to be a pain but the only time I've seen these 1/100 and 1/10 numbers have been in literature citing potential in comparison to all the other chemicals that are used in various major brand tobacco production cycles. Nothing peer reviewed with an actual methodology. I've stated numerous times in this thread actual data talking about risks of pure nicotine being fairly insignificant compared to other lifestyle factors but if these is a peer-reviewed journal publication that states what you have about I really would like to get my hands on it. Paywall or not. Searching PubMed and Google Scholar turn up nothing but the usual suspects. -Magnus


EDIT: If you're referring to anything on CASAA's site then that's not what I'm looking for but if it you know of something else, I'd like to see it. Otherwise this is circular logic (what they post now) and not going to help with my risk tree. It's evident, that much I get, I'm looking for an actual accurate set of metrics.

 

[phonedude]

I wish Flaming would at least PM me with who they are that drives me crazy not knowing. Yes well I have been bad I ranted but tomorrow I will turn over a new leaf and use the foe button probably liberally.

I highly recommend it. You just don't see the crap at all. Of course a lot of the threads are a lot shorter. LOL

 

[MagnusEunson]

But where? I don't want to be a pain but the only time I've seen these 1/100 and 1/10 numbers have been in literature citing potential in comparison to all the other chemicals that are used in various major brand tobacco production cycles. Nothing peer reviewed with an actual methodology.

Let me explain what I'm getting at... the problem with developing risk based on the potential vs testing is that it's always open for dispute. The only two active ingredients in traditional cigarettes that have been separated and tested in multiple settings are tar and nicotine. All the other risks are based on extrapolation, and some of it bad.. at this point you've got multiple sources exaggerating nicotine threat by saying in their tests they can show it's as dangerous as tar in the appropriately scaled quantities (and that's hugely debatable). There are a few studies that apply to formaldehyde too.

If any of the other hundreds and thousands of chemicals have been studied at length in a setting appropriate to smoking that contributes to building a more realistic assessment. Which I'm confident will stand up when done. Problem is the funding to do it comes from big-tobacco courtesy of Government agreements. So I'm unsure it'll happen as long as vaping remains a boutique segment. -Magnus

 

[ShannonA]

Let me explain what I'm getting at... the problem with developing risk based on the potential vs testing is that it's always open for dispute. The only two active ingredients in traditional cigarettes that have been separated and tested in multiple settings are tar and nicotine. All the other risks are based on extrapolation, and some of it bad.. at this point you've got multiple sources exaggerating nicotine threat by saying in their tests they can show it's as dangerous as tar in the appropriately scaled quantities (and that's hugely debatable). There are a few studies that apply to formaldehyde too.

If any of the other hundreds and thousands of chemicals have been studied at length in a setting appropriate to smoking that contributes to building a more realistic assessment. Which I'm confident will stand up when done. Problem is the funding to do it comes from big-tobacco courtesy of Government agreements. So I'm unsure it'll happen as long as vaping remains a boutique segment. -Magnus

They should get Big Pharma to fund it. Proving nicotine is not that much of an evil would benefit them also.

 

[DC2]

Seriously, I gotta ask a question for any of you that are nicotine free...

Katiem over there goes on and on about how wonderful this blissful life is when you are free of nicotine.
Has anyone gone down to no nicotine, and felt any better than they did when they were simply down to zero smoking?

If there's anything to what she is saying, I would love to know.
But I just don't see it.

I'm perfectly blissful right now, not smoking cigarettes.
I feel great, and don't know how I could feel any better.

But of course she'll just say I couldn't know the magical wonderfulness of it all until I get there.

 

[phonedude]

Seriously, I gotta ask a question for any of you that are nicotine free...

Katiem over there goes on and on about how wonderful this blissful life is when you are free of nicotine.
Has anyone gone down to no nicotine, and felt any better than they did when they were simply down to zero smoking?

If there's anything to what she is saying, I would love to know.
But I just don't see it.

I'm perfectly blissful right now, not smoking cigarettes.
I feel great, and don't know how I could feel any better.

But of course she'll just say I couldn't know the magical wonderfulness of it all until I get there.

I don't know if three days counts but I don't feel a bit different.

 

[ShannonA]

I'm not off nicotine but I do know nicotine doesn't inhibit sight, smell, or flavors

 

[LibertariaNate]

Seriously, I gotta ask a question for any of you that are nicotine free...

Katiem over there goes on and on about how wonderful this blissful life is when you are free of nicotine.
Has anyone gone down to no nicotine, and felt any better than they did when they were simply down to zero smoking?

If there's anything to what she is saying, I would love to know.
But I just don't see it.

I'm perfectly blissful right now, not smoking cigarettes.
I feel great, and don't know how I could feel any better.

But of course she'll just say I couldn't know the magical wonderfulness of it all until I get there.

I'm still using nicotine, however, it wasn't that long ago that I started smoking (~ 8 years). I remember how wonderful life was before smoking cigarettes.

I would wake up, have some coffee, go to work, come home, have a drink and maybe watch the game on TV.

At work I had to deal with employees not showing up for work, cranky customers, and the general BS of managing 5 or 6 other stores while I had my own to worry about.

Then I started smoking... Guess what? NOTHING changed...

I don't see it either, DC.

 

[ShannonA]

errrm the floodgate opened and that's all im sayin

 

[MustangSallie]

Shoot, I was hoping for a flood free evening! We had one wicked storm here earlier today!

 

[ShannonA]

Shoot, I was hoping for a flood free evening! We had one wicked storm here earlier today!

I wouldn't mind if we had one here to cool it off a bit although its not unbearably hot here...yet.

 

[Neriah]

I don't know how to answer that. I quit cold turkey 17 months ago by a twist of fate. I

missed 'smoking' for a while bit once I found I didn't need to smoke when I was feeling or doing 'whatever' it was just fine.

I never enjoyed smoking. I had to smoke.

I listen to people talk about how they loved smoking and I don't get it.

I got hooked on something in the process there.

I chew gum to keep occupied for the smoking thing now.

I feel better and life is less complicated with the whole smoking thing.

 

[ShannonA]

Hey Neriah how are you?

 

[MustangSallie]

I will not say it. I will not post it. I will not say it. I will not post it. Oh what the hell...

A friend of mine the other day told me how his day at work was going:

"I was going to ask you if I could go home, but now it has gotten so bad that I'm praying as follows:

God grant me the strength to fight the things I can change, the humility (I think) to accept the things I cannot change, and the wisdom to bury the bodies of the folks that ...... me off"

 

[MustangSallie]

Hi Neriah, good to see you. I love your avatar btw.

 

[MustangSallie]

Speaking of which, it's time to change mine...

 

[DC2]

I don't know if three days counts but I don't feel a bit different.

I have a feeling you're supposed to be nicotine free for at least six weeks or something.
Or maybe that was six months?

I think the idea is that once your brain "rewires" itself to be without nicotine, that is when you see the changes.

But I suspect the changes are that you stop having that gnawing feeling of wanting a cigarette?
If so, most of us are already feeling that whether we are using nicotine or not.

Or maybe it has more to do with the freedom from having a habit to support and spend money on?
If so, I guess I can see some merit to that, but I like my habit and I can afford it quite easily now that I've quit smoking.

I guess someday I'll probably have to ask Katiem or one of the others over there.