E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread
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Does anyone know where Shannon went and if she is ok? She hasn't posted since the 5th...glanced at her posts and dont see mention of her leaving.......
Shannon comes and goes. She mentioned that might be the case. I think she does a lot of posting when she's got the late shift and not so much when she doesn't.
I believe the mods warned/asked/told us to stop posting anything on the Q board which start/further a forum war or bring ECF into a bad light. I agree that it was sound advice for many reasons. Most of us have stopped posting altogether, I among them. Am I missing something about moving along? Are you saying they would prefer if this thread died? I don't think the ECF mods are shy about closing a thread. Sometimes I pick up on the subtle, sometimes I need the bricks to hit my head. Perhaps this is a case of me needing the bricks.
Electricman didn't like it when I kept saying "we agree to disagree" in a polite way. It is possible John stopping by lit a fire under the Q members to up the ante, was pretty much the last straw for those of us who were trying to remain civil at Q.
I had made the decision to stay during "round #1", thought I could still provide a voice (I sometimes ventured out and added my thoughts in other posts as well, trying to be a useful member of the community, not just "an ecig guy"). My minority status as an ecig user that normally does not use nicotine factored into my decision.
Most of the folks over there now will be instantly combative with an active nicotine user, and all other points made after that fall on deaf ears. Again, I thought I could provide some useful information (and have helped SEVERAL users via PM, and received thanks) <-- that there was reason enough for me to stay... initially.
Now that round #2 has come and gone, it has pushed my ability to be a helpful *oddball* way off into the 'risky' category, so I too have had to leave, which is unfortunate.
My biggest "regret": I would have liked to have received a direct reply from katiem. She always kept dancing around the issues. Ah well.
At least I got steph to agree with me.... once. Small victory.
At least I got steph to agree with me.... once. Small victory.
I felt at the beginning of this (and stated as much) that it would be better for us to focus our attention on the individuals actively seeking our help. There's still a lot of good that can be done here.
And that, is exactly what I intend to move toward now. I've tried jumping in/out of the new members area in the past, hard to keep up with it, so many posts. Plus the recommendations made me want to put up "The Wonderful World of Vaping: Concise Version".
Rolygate has mentioned in his frontpage update posts the well-known problems with information overload and lack of a clear path on the ECF site. I'd have to put myself in the group that didn't see alot of those that needed help, when it was right under my nose. I've only been here a few months, and it was MUCH easier to keep up with one thread (this one) rather than do alot of jumping around.
Guess I need to find some good jumping boots now....
There is so much going on here it can be a bit of a challenge if you make it one.
Generally I use the "Today's Posts" button, read through the threads and if I feel I have something to add to the discussion, I do so. There are so many others here willing and ready with an answer that there is no need to feel as though you have to reply to every single "n00b" thread. You'd likely burn out and that would be a shame. You bring a wealth of experience and those who are looking to eventually eliminate nicotine will value what you share immensely.
Generally I use the "Today's Posts" button, read through the threads and if I feel I have something to add to the discussion, I do so. There are so many others here willing and ready with an answer that there is no need to feel as though you have to reply to every single "n00b" thread. You'd likely burn out and that would be a shame. You bring a wealth of experience and those who are looking to eventually eliminate nicotine will value what you share immensely.
I have a big problem with this FAQ from the new ECF home page, though:
I would much rather it stated:
Although, I'm not sure why ECF is being so coy about it being a way to stop smoking. ECF doesn't sell e-cigarettes and has no restrictions on saying the truth. E-cigarettes CAN AND DO help people quit smoking and there is some scientific and plenty of anecdotal evidence to show this. Using them to give up nicotine is a little less known, but people HAVE used them that way. I don't see why ECF couldn't say this.
Either way, if one switches completely to e-cigarettes from tobacco cigarettes they HAVE quit smoking, they just haven't quit nicotine and the statement as currently presented only reinforces the ANTZ contention that you haven't quit smoking if you haven't quit nicotine and that smokefree products aren't really much different from smoking.
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This is even worse:
I understand that there are other sections on the page about health and nicotine, but this section needs to be able to stand on it's own if people read no further and it's very misleading, IMO. But to be fair - the rest of the page is very well done!
I understand that there are other sections on the page about health and nicotine, but this section needs to be able to stand on it's own if people read no further and it's very misleading, IMO. But to be fair - the rest of the page is very well done!
I agree with you on all points Kristin. I was a bit disappointed to read it myself.
Post on the site feedback for changes.. they're reasonable changes and don't conflict w/ other sections in ECF. -Magnus
ECF is a high profile e-cig site. Electronic cigarettes are not an FDA approved method for smoking cessation. Numerous vendors advertise on this site. E-cig vendors cannot state their products can be used to quit smoking. I don't think it's much of a leap for someone to assume that the FDA might go after companies that advertise on a site that promotes e-cigs for smoking cessation on its front page.
I don't see anything wrong with ECF playing it safe.
I don't see anything wrong with ECF playing it safe.
I agree as well Kristin. There are so many reasons to quit smoking, just as there are so many reasons why people continue to smoke.
It's not all about nicotine. We've seen that with the lackluster success rates of NRT. The whole question of MAOI, and the psychological habits gained from long-term cigarette use (ritual craving) are big reasons why many fail when their "stick" is replaced with a "patch".
You have mentioned your husband needing "more" than just an ecig to keep the smokes at bay. There are ALOT of folks out there that NEED to hear this type of information.
Nevermind those (like myself) that enjoy the ritual, and are fortunate not to desire nicotine or any of the other chemicals. There are alot of us out in the wild too.
It's not all about nicotine. We've seen that with the lackluster success rates of NRT. The whole question of MAOI, and the psychological habits gained from long-term cigarette use (ritual craving) are big reasons why many fail when their "stick" is replaced with a "patch".
You have mentioned your husband needing "more" than just an ecig to keep the smokes at bay. There are ALOT of folks out there that NEED to hear this type of information.
Nevermind those (like myself) that enjoy the ritual, and are fortunate not to desire nicotine or any of the other chemicals. There are alot of us out in the wild too.
I hope they consider changing it, Sallie.
Like this:
E-cigarettes WERE designed for the purpose of quitting smoking (one can just read the story about the inventor) and the "totally" in the sentence needs to be explained. Lay-people don't understand the difference between smoking cessation and nicotine cessation. It's an ANTZ contrivance to make them one and the same. And plenty of people sell and/or use e-cigarettes because they want to help people quit smoking or because they don't want to smoke (for whatever reason.)
The only reason this sentence would need to be on the page is if ECF was selling e-cigarettes and needed to comply with the FDA about health claims. So, I really don't understand why it is there at all. If anything, ECF should be promoting the health benefits, the anecdotal and survey evidence and the support from scientific and medical groups for e-cigarettes as smoking cessation and reduction BECAUSE the merchants cannot do so. While I understand it's necessary to be and look balanced, there is no reason to underplay the positives like they are. If any site has the right to be more biased, it's ECF!
Like this:
E-cigarettes WERE designed for the purpose of quitting smoking (one can just read the story about the inventor) and the "totally" in the sentence needs to be explained. Lay-people don't understand the difference between smoking cessation and nicotine cessation. It's an ANTZ contrivance to make them one and the same. And plenty of people sell and/or use e-cigarettes because they want to help people quit smoking or because they don't want to smoke (for whatever reason.)
The only reason this sentence would need to be on the page is if ECF was selling e-cigarettes and needed to comply with the FDA about health claims. So, I really don't understand why it is there at all. If anything, ECF should be promoting the health benefits, the anecdotal and survey evidence and the support from scientific and medical groups for e-cigarettes as smoking cessation and reduction BECAUSE the merchants cannot do so. While I understand it's necessary to be and look balanced, there is no reason to underplay the positives like they are. If any site has the right to be more biased, it's ECF!
No, I'm saying the posts about whose fault it is, what Fred wants, who Electricman is, where Waldo is, who framed Roger Rabbit, etc. etc. is feeding the trolls from abroad. And re-re-resurrecting the topic of the Q controversy is useless and fruitless. And will kill the thread if it keeps happening. -Magnus
Post all this in the site feedback section... they might change it or they might have reason to worry about legal liability because they do indeed take money in from e-cig vendors for advertisement and commercial purposes. -Magnus
Because it could backfire by giving ammunition to the ANTZ who are trying to eradicate those same companies?
Judge Leon didn't even buy that the companies were making therapuetic claims on their own sites with customer testimonials. The FDA would be stupid to try to say advertising on ECF, where therapeutic claims are made throught the site, not just the the home page, are making those claims by association. If they could link those, what about Google Adords? There are quit smoking sites where e-cig ads show up. Could the government go after those companies because their ad happens to show up on the site that makes those claims?
I disagere - ECF should be taking the stand that the merchants cannot do for themselves and get the WHOLE truth out to the public, not "play it safe."
I don't think ECF is playing it safe.
When I first came to this forum in October 2010 - I came here for information on e-cigarettes and on vaping as an alternative to smoking. And that's basically in a nutshell, what ECF is - it is a forum where those people who vape or want to vape come to get information about e-cigarettes and to hang out with other vapers.
I never thought of ECF as a quit smoking site - ever - and to be disappointed that they have not taken that slant on their front page I believe does them a disservice.
When I first came to this forum in October 2010 - I came here for information on e-cigarettes and on vaping as an alternative to smoking. And that's basically in a nutshell, what ECF is - it is a forum where those people who vape or want to vape come to get information about e-cigarettes and to hang out with other vapers.
I never thought of ECF as a quit smoking site - ever - and to be disappointed that they have not taken that slant on their front page I believe does them a disservice.
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