E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[cigarbabe]

Hey guys thanks for the lovely welcome back!
I appreciate being missed
Luna has adjusted well, too well almost and she's doing great but has been sick today not sure why so.............
I need to interrogate you Sallie.
I'm heading out from camp shortly it's been raining and soo damned buggy although I do love "zapping" mosquito's like a maniac!
I'll have to post a picture of my "Bug Zapper" or of me using a couple looking deranged8-o.
Should be home in a couple of hours so I'm hoping we can talk then Sal?

Glad the heat broke and not you again MMMCGee!
Magnus you just need glasses or another drink dearest .
Hiya SCinSC!
Saw some interesting closed threads so I see they are still up to their old n lame tricks eh?
No answers required!
C.B.

 

[blue8091]

Hey Everybody!

I'm pretty much a Vermillion River head through and through..but I like dinkin around with flavors. Thought I'd give some props to Pink Spot Vapor. I ordered a six pack sampler + got a free sample and I have to say that 6 of 7 were just YUM-awesome fruit blends.

Bluespot (blueberry/pineapple/lime)
Pinkspot (raspberry/pineapple/lime)
Gspot (grape)
Janes Wild juice (pineapple/amaretto/peach)
Watermelon Splash (watermelon fusion)
Strawberry Bubblegum (nuff said)

Cheers!!

All really really good...18mg...great TH...nice vapor! Lots of fun to drip for a switch out of the ordinary!

Huge thumbs down on Jamaica Me Crazy...just BLECH...like vaping Hawaiian Tropic Oil

 

[cigarbabe]

Hey Everybody!

I'm pretty much a Vermillion River head through and through..but I like dinkin around with flavors. Thought I'd give some props to Pink Spot Vapor. I ordered a six pack sampler + got a free sample and I have to say that 6 of 7 were just YUM-awesome fruit blends.

Bluespot (blueberry/pineapple/lime)
Pinkspot (raspberry/pineapple/lime)
Gspot (grape)
Janes Wild Juice (pineapple/amaretto/peach)
Watermelon Splash (watermelon fusion)
Strawberry Bubblegum (nuff said)

Cheers!!

All really really good...18mg...great TH...nice vapor! Lots of fun to drip for a switch out of the ordinary!

Huge thumbs down on Jamaica Me Crazy...just BLECH...like vaping Hawaiian Tropic Oil

Hello and welcome!
Were you looking for this thread?
C.B.

 

[MustangSallie]

Blue's been around a while, probably just sharing her new found favorites. Been toying with giving them a try myself, but I have too many favorites at the moment. Wouldn't know what to replace if I found another.

I'll be around when you get home C.B. Give me a shout.

 

[nitejanitor]

Stopping by to say hi now that my 5 day ban or whatever has been lifted-kinda confused over why it happen-posting like I normally do-must be new rules & policing have taken effect. I wish on the Q board it could be policed when people are mean but it hasn't happened in the 2 yrs I've been there so I guess its a lost cause.

 

[LibertariaNate]

My head feels like it's going to explode tonight...

I've been spending my weekends learning the Zend Framework just for and giggles. Everything was moving along swimmingly until I found out about Doctrine and how it's the next big thing in ORM. So, of course, I just have to learn that too.

Hopefully the next major release of ZF integrates better with Doctrine because I found at least a half dozen different ways to do it. Not cool. Honestly though, after getting it all working and spending a day with it, I still much prefer Zend_Db... The whole experience has made me realize how much I cannot stand .NET's off the shelf database integration. It's absolutely garbage. I really need to look into an ORM for .NET else my sanity will suffer after finding out just how cool it is in PHP.

 

[MagnusEunson]

What are you using for the DB right now? I have no experience w/ Doctrine, I'm on PostgreSQL and using Propel for the PHP ends. I've run into bug after bug and I'm getting too old to figure my way through them all. A University I'm working with is using LinqConnect for their .NET to my PostgreSQL and seem quite savvy but I haven't touched it myself.

I know what you mean about too many integration paths.. fourteen/fifteen years ago I was all about having enough options to choke a donkey with. Perl and C++ were my bread and butter and the endless choices and projects spawning monthly were invigorating. Now it's beyond dizzying for me. If I ever had 'a knack', it's long since been passed through the ether to somebody else. -Magnus

 

[MagnusEunson]

Oh.. almost forgot....

*waves cane*

-Magnus

 

[cigarbabe]

Oh.. almost forgot....

*waves cane*

-Magnus

I just wanted to wave at you.....
If my dog had a tail she would too..
C.B.

 

[LibertariaNate]

I was awoken by one of the most spectacular thunderstorms I have ever been privileged to witness.

Wow.

I really need to get some sleep.

 

[LibertariaNate]

Magnus, I'll answer you when I'm more coherent...

 

[renstyle]

Did you read and/or post in Roly's thread on this subject?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/switching/213753-infopages-switching-quitting.html

Thanks for pointing this out, I had not (now have) read it. I appreciate roly taking the time to lay out the ECF position.

The road to acceptance (in the eyes of the everyman) is a long one, but progress is being made.

 

[LibertariaNate]

Thanks for pointing this out, I had not (now have) read it. I appreciate roly taking the time to lay out the ECF position.

The road to acceptance (in the eyes of the everyman) is a long one, but progress is being made.

Agreed. I appreciated it as well. ECF's conservatism makes sense. Glad to see I wasn't completely off base in stating as much.

 

[renstyle]

Quoting myself from the info pages thread:

I can see the logic in an ecig, being a "smoking alternative" will provide the same ends as "ecig to quit smoking", just using different language. That's how I looked at it myself when I quit smoking (I take the first opinion, smoking=burning).

All of us here know that there is *some* dancing around the issue, one way or another. CASAA does a fine job pushing for official acceptance (or more accurately, pushing for the powers that be to make accurate statements regarding safety and efficacy, and ending the hypocrisy that started this thread and many other debates regarding this issue).

I truly believe the "accurate statements", even when watered down by politicians, can (and will) gain traction with the health community at large.

The fact that we have politicians suppressing ecigs, while taking (and spending) tobacco settlement dollars, AND following that with debates on preventable illness, health care makes the system look quite shady from an outsiders view.

 

[LibertariaNate]

... The fact that we have politicians suppressing ecigs, while taking (and spending) tobacco settlement dollars, AND following that with debates on preventable illness, health care makes the system look quite shady from an outsiders view.

Do you have a list of said politicians?

IMO the debate about "preventable" illness with regard to personal choice of using a legal substance is all a ruse. It's just a thinly veiled attempt at legislating morality.

 

[MagnusEunson]

Do you have a list of said politicians?

I'm sure somebody has a specific list but generically speaking I'd say almost every State's Governor for one. The various settlements at State and National level provide quite a bit of guaranteed revenue for the States. Most specifically, thirty or more states have issued Tobacco Bonds against future income from the sales and escrow accounts of Big Tobacco. Some of those are highly leveraged and if Big Tobacco sales fall greatly then they'd be unable to fulfill those obligations. Some of those bonds end up backing housing, education, and other important State projects.

IMO the debate about "preventable" illness with regard to personal choice of using a legal substance is all a ruse. It's just a thinly veiled attempt at legislating morality.

I emphatically agree. -Magnus

 

[LibertariaNate]

So you're saying that these groups aren't really opposed to e-cigs (in general) but to the loss of revenue they represent? In the case of government it's tax revenue, and in the case of "health" organizations (and the companies that subsidize them) product revenue...

Got it.

 

[kristin]

Quoting myself from the info pages thread:



All of us here know that there is *some* dancing around the issue, one way or another. CASAA does a fine job pushing for official acceptance (or more accurately, pushing for the powers that be to make accurate statements regarding safety and efficacy, and ending the hypocrisy that started this thread and many other debates regarding this issue).

I truly believe the "accurate statements", even when watered down by politicians, can (and will) gain traction with the health community at large.

The fact that we have politicians suppressing ecigs, while taking (and spending) tobacco settlement dollars, AND following that with debates on preventable illness, health care makes the system look quite shady from an outsiders view.

I understand ECF's stance on being cautious, but making a definitive declaration like "E-cigarettes are not for quitting smoking" was not really accurate, either. If they want to be technically correct, there is no evidence that e-cigarettes CAN'T be used for quitting smoking - nicotine cessation or not - either. The absence of evidence is not sufficient evidence for making such a statement, as much as the ANTZ would like it to be.

So, I'm the most happy that they removed that comment.

 

[renstyle]

So you're saying that these groups aren't really opposed to e-cigs (in general) but to the loss of revenue they represent? In the case of government it's tax revenue, and in the case of "health" organizations (and the companies that subsidize them) product revenue...

Got it.

Yes, this is EXACTLY what I meant when I made that statement.

The American Lung Association isn't against ecigs just because of their lack of clinical studies. If that were the case they would push for funding of said studies. The other hand is taking a portion of their operating budget from the tobacco settlement, which always strikes me as the height of hypocrisy.

As magnus just mentioned, the tobacco money can be counted upon so much in some jurisdictions, that they are borrowing against projected income. With more than half of the state governments fighting back budget deficits, this makes the argument for keeping alternative forms of "smoking" suppressed.

Never mind they are raking it in on both ends, by raising the tobacco taxes on the end product, consumers are also reinforcing this system.

Part of the cig tax rate hikes is due to actuarial data projections showing a slight decrease in the number of smokers. It's only a small part tho, the bigger part is the "make them dirty smokers pay" type of social win. They portray this as a way to force smokers to quit, but that is only a side benefit. Having the rates locked-in at an every increasing rate is the primary goal.

 

[renstyle]

I understand ECF's stance on being cautious, but making a definitive declaration like "E-cigarettes are not for quitting smoking" was not really accurate, either. If they want to be technically correct, there is no evidence that e-cigarettes CAN'T be used for quitting smoking - nicotine cessation or not - either. The absence of evidence is not sufficient evidence for making such a statement, as much as the ANTZ would like it to be.

So, I'm the most happy that they removed that comment.

With regard to that 'not for smoking' statement, I'm glad it was removed. I didn't like how it was worded initially, but IANAL, so I assumed there was some legal beagle at ECF that had put that in for CYA at the very least.

I also could not articulate a feedback response past "Isn't this a bit (queue Law&Order soundbite: "dun-dun")?" so I left it alone.

The *dancing* I was referring to is that "quitting smoking", however you look at it with ecigs, involves not lighting up and inhaling the dangerous smoke.

The whole debate past that point starts to degenerate into definitions of quit and nicotine intake in lieu of actual cigarette smoking.

To me, the playing field fundamentally changes once you stop burning the death sticks, and an entirely new debate moving forward from that point takes it's place.

By defnition, one state will end (combustion), and the new debate will begin (post-combustion). That's the part that is difficult (IMHO) to communicate to the everyman in a way that doesn't incur the wrath of the ANTZ and others.

Any ecig user can see that. Heck most non-ecig users can see that. The whole FDA regulation/issues with nicotine/Health Canada/etc/etc is dancing around the big fat white elephant in the room (combustion).