E-cigarettes - NEW Threat to Children

[Petrodus]

tobacco industry still targeting youths
is the title but entire paragraph SLAMS E-cigarettes

As if this were not enough, a new threat to children,
as well as adults, is the electronic cigarette.....

Article: Click Here

 

[o4_srt]

agendas: the latest threat to americans

 

[Petrodus]

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My comment (if accepted) should be visible soon.

 

[rothenbj]

The industry appears unconcerned that its product has been proven to cause cancers, heart attacks and strokes, and according to the WHO, is the leading cause of preventable death in the world. It is not likely that recent studies showing an increased risk of Alzheimer’s disease will bother the industry's conscience.

emphasis mine

How many times have you read that? I stumbled on a WHO page on death and this was their statement-

Q: Isn't smoking a top cause of death?
Tobacco use is a major cause of many of the world’s top killer diseases – including cardiovascular disease, chronic obstructive lung disease and lung cancer. In total, tobacco use is responsible for the death of almost one in 10 adults worldwide. Smoking is often the hidden cause of the disease recorded as responsible for death.

Emphasis mine


WHO | The top 10 causes of death

First, they don't even claim it is the leading cause of disease and notice how they quickly change a question of smoking to a statement about tobacco. If you look at all the causes of disease and death, malnutrition (grouped together since they group all tobacco use with smoking) is by far the leading cause of disease.

If social engineering is the goal an attacking the leading causes of disease and death, salt, fatty foods, sugar, processed sugar, red meat, and the like should also have exorbitant excise taxes placed on them. End of rant, but articles like this that just repeat tobacco nazi rhetoric drive me nuts.

 

[kristin]

I sent a letter to the editor:

Dear Editor,

Many of Dr. Carl Bartecchi's comments about smokeless tobacco and e-cigarettes are actually misleading and dangerous to public health. Smokeless tobaccos such as snus and lozenges may or may not contain more nicotine, but Dr. Bartecchi forgot to mention that they have also been scientifically shown to be 98-99% less dangerous than smoking.

The greatest danger from tobacco use is in the smoke. With the low, 1/2 to 1% risk of oral/throat cancer, smokeless tobacco use has 1/2 the risk of oral/throat cancer and none of the risk of lung cancer and other lung diseases associated with smoking. E-cigarettes have 1,000 times less of the tabocco-specific nitrosamines than cigarette smoke, about the same as FDA-approved nicotine patches. Numerous tests have found no "potentially toxic" chemicals in e-cigarettes other than a tiny, non-toxic amount of diethylene glycol found in just one of the eighteen samples tested by the FDA.

The claim that children are attracted to e-cigarettes is also completely unsubstantiated and surveys of thousands of e-cigarette consumers have shown that the vast majority of them are between 35-65 years old and former, long-term smokers. Youth continue to find tobacco cigarettes far easier and initially cheaper to obtain and e-cigarettes about as alluring as nicotine gum. It's also completely illogical to expect youth to try pleasant-tasting e-cigarettes and then suddenly want to switch to foul-tasting tobacco cigarettes. It's akin to claiming root beer would lead to beer drinking. Additionally, a federal judge and the DC appellate court recently issued opinions that e-cigarettes should be regulated by the FDA as tobacco products, which will automatically make them illegal to sell to minors, should the FDA choose to abide by the courts' decisions.

It is a given that smokers would be better off quitting tobacco use altogether. But considering the recent CDC report showing that quit rates have stagnated and over 20% of U.S. citizens continue to smoke, despite the best efforts of the tobacco control movement, health professionals need to switch their tactics for those committed smokers. Instead of wishing and hoping they would quit, they should address smokers in the same way as they would other patients with high risk behavior and encourage them to switch to reduced harm alternatives. In doing so, they could reduce smoking-related illness and disease by up to 99%. Is that not a more reasonable and attainable goal, rather than continuing to place smokers in harm's way by refusing to tell them about reduced harm options? Health professionals such as Dr. Bartecchi must change their approach and soon. Millions of lives hang in the balance.

Sincerely,
Kristin Noll-Marsh, Director
Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association

 

[rothenbj]

Excellent response Kristin. Don't you get tired of responding to the repeated inaccuracies of the extremists?

 

[kristin]

Don't you get tired of responding to the repeated inaccuracies of the extremists?

You have no idea.

But I can't give up fighting the good fight!

It's like rationalizing with a 2 year old on why she can't have M & M's for dinner. You can give her all of the logical, reasonable explainations and she still says, "M & Ms!" and refuses to eat her dinner!

 

[esdel]

“I am pleased that the Board of Health acted today to prohibit the sale of e-cigarettes to youth and to restrict their use in public spaces,” said (King County) Board of Health Chair Julia Patterson. “E-cigarettes are used as a means to encourage people, especially our youth, to begin smoking. Their safety and long-term health impacts are untested and unknown...”

https://www.kingcounty.gov/council/news/2010/December/JP_Ecig.aspx

Oh, really?? "Used" by whom? Why would the e-cigarette industry make a product designed to get people off that product and onto another industry's product?? How can these people make the most absurd, unsubstantated claims in favor of their side, yet when it comes to the other side, they suddenly demand the strictest, most irrefutable scientific proof ("Their safety and long-term health impacts are untested and unknown.")??

Send this "rhymes with ditch" an email: julia.patterson@kingcounty.gov

 

[my2heartboys]

First of all I believe the BIGGEST danger to children is parent who don't parent and let their kids run amuck.

Personally, I would be more worried about the strep mutans and lactobacillus that is in the mouths of adults, before I would worry about their ecig use.

Anne

 

[rothenbj]

"The Board of Health voted unanimously to:

restrict the sales of e-cigarettes or any other unapproved nicotine delivery devices only to people 18 and older;
prohibit free or highly discounted electronic smoking devices or unapproved nicotine delivery products;
prohibit the use of e-cigarette devices in places where smoking is prohibited by law."

Unanimous, once the amendment to take out the public smoking ban was defeated by a vote of 4 members for and 4 against. Democracy in motion.

 

[Placebo Effect]

To the author

Mr. Bartecchi,

I submitted much of the below letter as a comment to the Chieftian website, but wanted to send this to you in the event that the comment is not approved for publication.

Your discussion about the e-cigarette is uninformed for several reasons. You failed to note that the price to buy an e-cigarette package online is anywhere from $50 to $120. What kind of a kid has access to that sort of money AND a credit card? Additionally, evidence suggests that the e-cigarette does not actually deliver nicotine very effectively. Former smokers find success with the e-cigarette mostly because it mimics the hand-to-mouth habit that smokers find hard to break. So-called public health advocates have failed to show that the e-cigarettes are even attractive to children, let alone that use of an e-cigarette is likely to foster a nicotine addiction.

What toxins are you talking about Mr. Bartecchi? The diethylene glycol found in ONE of the 19 cartridges tested by the FDA in an amount of "approximately 1%"? This is an amount that wouldn't even harm a lab rat, let alone a human, and is likely the sort of manufacturing error that one could find in most products on supermarket store shelves. Or the tobacco-specific nitrosamines / carcinogens found in the e-cigarette? The number in an e-cigarette cartridge is equivalent to that of the patch. In other words, one would have to use ONE THOUSAND e-cigarette cartridges to equal the carcinogens that a person takes in when smoking a single Marlboro Light. This point is dissected and explained in a recent study by a Boston University School of Public Health scientist for the Jour.nal of Pub.lic Health Pol.i.cy.

Mr. Bartecchi, your fight against cigarette smoking is a proper battle. However, including the e-cigarette in this article is absolutely ridiculous. There are over 45 million Americans who still smoke cigarettes, and that number appears to be stagnating. Traditional quitting methods, like the patch and gum, have spectacular low success rates of 2-10% after 20 months. The e-cigarette, which has never been shown to harm a single person over its 7-year lifespan, provides an alternative nicotine source to these individuals, and your criticism is irresponsible and misplaced.

Thank you,

 

[kristin]

“No matter how it’s delivered, nicotine is highly addictive. We took an important step today to keep these unknown products out of the hands of kids in King County,” said Boardmember and Lake Forest Park Mayor David Hutchinson.

“But nicotine remains addictive, and the steps we took today are about protecting youth.”
- Sally Clark

“Through this regulation, young people in King County have one less opportunity to get hooked on nicotine.”
- Dr. David Flemming

So, now being "addictive" is more of a concern than the actual health risks of smoking?? The risk of being hooked on something is worse than the risk of lung cancer??

They kept repeating that they are "saving kids" from the "danger of nicotine" with complete disregard for the danger of SMOKE. The danger of smoking is far worse for smokers than the dangers of nicotine are for ANYONE. Now people who have quit smoking will be exposed to second-hand smoke in smoking areas (and considering the antis claim even outdoor second-hand smoke is dangerous, they can't defend it being outside) AND kids will still see both smokers and vapers standing outside as they come in - not exactly "hidden" from their "innocent eyes." And what kids are going to see vaping in an office or factory?

Seriously, how is this protecting anyone in any way at all??

 

[esdel]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Sorry, just blowing off steam...er, I mean vapor.

 

[LeAnn]

Not to mention the addiction of sugars and fats that our kids are consuming every minute of the day and becoming obese or the amount of fat that is in all the fast food restaurant but GOD forbid keep that nicotine away from them!

 

[Crumpet]

No matter how it’s delivered, nicotine is highly addictive. We took an important step today to keep these unknown products out of the hands of kids in King County,” said Boardmember and Lake Forest Park Mayor David Hutchinson.

Actually, I need to link her to the study that showed nicotine was effective in improving memory in folks w/dementia and that the recorded withdrawals from the transdermal nicotine were minimal, if that.

 

[Petrodus]

Actually, I need to link her to the study that showed nicotine was effective in improving memory in folks w/dementia and that the recorded withdrawals from the transdermal nicotine were minimal, if that.

I think this is the link your looking for

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...8148-potential-therapeutic-uses-nicotine.html

 

[Thulium]

I posted this comment:

Once I started using an e-cigarette, I basically quit smoking on ACCIDENT. I've tried all the NRTs along with "cold turkey" and even hypnosis to quit for a while, but invariably ended up smoking again. I'm not alone, 98% of people who quit with help from pharmaceutical products resume smoking within 20 months. But when I found a combination of the right atomizer and flavored e-liquid that worked for me, I didn't smoke because I found something I prefer. Within a few weeks my senses of taste and smell were improving to the point that I didn't even like the taste of cigarettes anymore and I eventually FORGOT when I had last smoked...so I intentionally smoked one last cigarette on New Years' Eve and none since.

That is why it is mind-bogglingly LUDICROUS to suggest that e-cigarettes would cause children to smoke: First there is no evidence that children are even using these things as user studies point to them appealing to a much older crowd (even many 20-something hipsters think they look dumb), with a median age over 45, and nearly no one who has never smoked uses an e-cigarette.
-Even if a non-smoking child did try an e-cigarette, there is no reason for that child to use nicotine: For people who aren't already addicted to nicotine, there is very little reason to START using it as it would only add an unpleasant "peppery" flavor.
-Even if a non-smoking child tried an e-cigarette with nicotine, there is little reason to think they would become addicted: Nicotine alone is not particularly habit forming. Although it is still "addictive", without the MAOI's and thousands of other addictive components of tobacco smoke, nicotine by itself has NOT been shown to be a significant *cause* of addiction. That's why NRT's can be sold without a prescription as a gateway TO smoking. (Duh.)

Finally, even if a non-smoking child defied all reason and logic and tried an electronic cigarette AND for some reason *started* using nicotine AND somehow magically became addicted to nicotine....There is STILL no reason for them to start smoking traditional cigarettes! ESPECIALLY if they were "lured" by one of the hundreds of non-tobacco flavors, why would they suddenly have a desire for the taste of burnt tobacco leaves?!?

This so-called "doctor" is woefully uninformed on this life-and-death issue.

 

[Thulium]

So, now being "addictive" is more of a concern than the actual health risks of smoking?? The risk of being hooked on something is worse than the risk of lung cancer??

They kept repeating that they are "saving kids" from the "danger of nicotine" with complete disregard for the danger of SMOKE. The danger of smoking is far worse for smokers than the dangers of nicotine are for ANYONE. Now people who have quit smoking will be exposed to second-hand smoke in smoking areas (and considering the antis claim even outdoor second-hand smoke is dangerous, they can't defend it being outside) AND kids will still see both smokers and vapers standing outside as they come in - not exactly "hidden" from their "innocent eyes." And what kids are going to see vaping in an office or factory?

Seriously, how is this protecting anyone in any way at all??

I might be addicted to nicotine, but the withdrawal symptoms are much less than those from my addictions to air, food, and water. While that may seem trite, many people are referring to the dangers of "addiction" without mentioning what it is you are addicted to. Many people have very strong addictions to caffeine with withdrawal symptoms that can be worse than nicotine; but most people don't care about this addiction because drinking coffee doesn't drastically increase your risk of developing cancer or lung disease. You don't hear about usage restrictions on coffee products because the liquid vapor and odors related to coffee consumption are usually inoffensive.

Come to think of it, I can't think of any situation where it would be "appropriate" to drink coffee or caffeinated products where it should not be equally appropriate to use a smokeless tobacco product. Some people only use it occasionally to give themselves a "boost", while others use it chronically for recreation and/or self-medication.

The process used in e-cigarettes is actually quite similar to that of making coffee. Instead of mixing coffee with hot water, e-cigarettes mix e-liquid with heated air/water vapor. Although most of the vapor produced by a cup of coffee is not directly inhaled, some of it is. I can't be sure, but I bet at least a full milliliter of liquid is turned into vapor during the course of making and drinking a pot of coffee....

 

[simply me]

First of all there is no second hand smoke to harm our children, that should be a plus. And I can't see the kids haing enough money on them to buy a unit and keep in stock the juice. They can't bum a e-cig nobody would let go of it. They can steal a cig from parents but the parents would know if there pv was missing. I never see the kids vaping on the street corner but they are smoking them cigs. They need to stop using our kids as excuse to ban the e cig, it just sounds crazy to me.

 

[xg4bx]

just once i'd LOVE to see someone produce one of these hypothetical children. "here's little suzie, she somehow managed to sneak her moms credit card, spend $100+ on equipment, had it delivered to her house and knew how to properly operate it, all without mommy knowing."

as soon as "the children" argument comes up, i know a heaping helping of b.s. is sure to follow.

a tad off topic, if theres one thing i despise most in this world its the fact that children are used to keep adults from enjoying adult products. dont do this, kids might get it. dont do that, kids might see. you know what? bleep the children. i'm a grown man, leave me alone. worry about your own damn kids.

worry about kids having caffeine. this is from an article entitled 6 Things That Are Secretly Turning You Into A Bad Person

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_1879...urning-you-into-bad-person.html#ixzz18hEIChzj

"Actually, studies show that caffeine addiction can be like a tightrope walk for your sanity. One espresso shot too many on your coffee break, and you risk flying off the handle into a barely controlled rage. Skip your coffee break, and you'll find that you're just as irritable, with the added bonus of flulike symptoms. It's a vicious cycle that is starting earlier than ever, with increasing numbers of elementary school children consuming caffeine each year."

"So that cup of coffee that's supposed to get you through the workday can also make you think the workday is impossible to get through. Then there's the fact that according to studies, everyone from teenagers to prisoners is quicker to express anger after consuming caffeine, and you've got a recipe for disaster. Lawyers have actually tried (and sometimes succeeded) in using caffeine intoxication as a defense for murder and running people over. The U.S. Army even recognizes its very anger-inducing effects."

"Before you decide to quit the caffeine habit once and for all, you should know that you're still going to be an ...****. At least for a few months, anyway. Caffeine is a drug, and you get withdrawal symptoms from it just like anything else that's addictive. When an alcoholic wakes up in the morning with the shakes and pours himself a highball, we judge him but how many of you can't function in the morning before your cup (or three) of coffee? Those withdrawal symptoms can then lead to ... you guessed it: high irritability, quickness to anger, depression, and anxiety if you have even one less serving of caffeine a day."


please, show me similar studies about nicotine.