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Why do they say it's any easy way to get the children? They are sold only to smoking age people. In fact the cartridges I purchased said not to be used if under 21. Teens will find a way to get them but no more so than cigarettes.
TBob...I have to say that after my 3 weeks of reading and posting on this forum that you and I seem to be part of only a very small minority of posters here who have the ability to reason on both sides of the issue.
I've seen so many immature, irrational and angry posts on this ecig issue that im starting to think that:
Maybe im not as bad an addict as i thought, lol.
I've seen so many immature, irrational and angry posts on this ecig issue that im starting to think that:
Maybe im not as bad an addict as i thought, lol.
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Hanger--We are all entitled to our opinion--But I have to admit you really sound like an FDA poster child. If in fact the e-cig is banned, it will be long winded debates like the one you proffered here that are prime examples of how we all go up in flames. So I can not concur with your "ability to reason on both sides of the issue" as IMO, there is no other side of the issue--unless your solution is to go back to smoking, or use an NRT---which many of us do not find to be alternatives---Sun
From this portion of your post Hangar, I believe you are misunderstanding the concept of harm reduction.
It is not a catchword for smoking cessation. It does not contemplate the use of self-control or other means to wean oneself off of nicotine.
On the contrary, it is a very pragmatic stance that recognizes that many either will not or cannot stop smoking due to their addiction to nicotine or their choice to continue to use nicotine, no matter what methods they may have tried and failed with, and that therefore it is better to use a product with less harmful or lethal consequences.
Take a look at Tobaccoharmreduction.org if you want to understand this position more fully. I've directed you to their home page, but they also relatively recently endorsed ecigs, and now have a page devoted to them specifically:
Electronic cigarettes. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)
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Look Sun..all i know from the posts ive seen and responses ive gotten lately on this forum is that there are alot of really misguided, misinformed, angry people out here who are willing to say anything, do anything and act in any unreasonable and even irresponsible fashion in fear of never gaining their right to vape an e-cig.
Sorry but its behavior like THAT which can be blamed for ruining our chances with ecigs, and THAT is nothing I will ever take part in because im not so stupid a person.
Sorry but its behavior like THAT which can be blamed for ruining our chances with ecigs, and THAT is nothing I will ever take part in because im not so stupid a person.
I'm not a doctor but from my personal experience with e-cigs I think it is healthier(not healthly) than analogs. I started with the High Nic carts because I have been a heavy smoker for over 20 years. I had to cut back to the Lite and then the Ultra Lite because the nic was too strong. The first 2 weeks I was coughing a lot of junk up but then it stopped and my sense of taste and smell have returned. I don't get short of breath anymore when I climb stairs or walk. I sleep a lot better. Tried an analog but found the taste disgusting and it made me cough and choke just like when I first started smoking. I put it out after the second drag. I took about 8-9 vapes per hour at first but after 3 weeks am down to 3-4. I know all this is just antedotal but I feel a lot better. I can't see kids who start vaping switching over to analogs.
I know I don't want to quit smoking.. i enjoy it and i am glad i have this alternative...
uh...yea hehe...i may not have educated myself on the exact definition of harm reduction but i well understand what it eludes to.
What makes me laugh is that i never found a forum so full of respected scientists and medical doctors as this one seems to have under its membership who apparently can claim the green-go light on ecigs and their safety relative to cigarettes...its really quite impressive 8-o
Who's gonna cover yer .... though in 10 years if some of us should start contracting throat cancer?...now mind you..im not saying this will happen, but YOU certainly cannot tell me it WONT. So if this thing ends up causing some sort of cancer do you still want it classified as harm reduction?????...(if youre answer is yes please dont tell me the truth because ill absolutely be sick to my stomach)
Some of you really need to take a break and step back and readjust your attitudes to something ALOT more responsible...because the way many of you are acting is more likely to hurt our case instead of helping it.
...sorry <simon cowell voice - off>
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well.. look at it this way.. a lot of us will still be around in 10 years to ..... about it..
Quote: "Who's gonna cover yer .... though in 10 years if some of us should start contracting throat cancer?...now mind you..im not saying this will happen, but YOU certainly cannot tell me it WONT."--Hanger
Hanger--No you can not tell us that with Vaping, but you can tell us that with Cigarettes--that is the whole point. Although the evidence is scant as to total saftey---there is no evidence to date that vaping is harmful. We are not looking for "totally safe"---an alternative that is "safer" is where the merit is grounded------Sun
Hanger--No you can not tell us that with Vaping, but you can tell us that with Cigarettes--that is the whole point. Although the evidence is scant as to total saftey---there is no evidence to date that vaping is harmful. We are not looking for "totally safe"---an alternative that is "safer" is where the merit is grounded------Sun
Sun...I understnad what you're saying but for some reason youre not reading into what IM saying....and what im saying is this...in MY opinion if curtain number1 has a lifetime supply of lung cancer behind it, and curtain number2 has a lifetime supply of throat cancer behind it, then curtain number2 should NOT be classified as harm reduction...understand what im saying?...we cant classify it as true harm reduction unless its truly tested FIRST and found to be truly safer over extended usage...which to ME means NO MORE CANCER worries.
Im really sorry we arent seeing eye to eye on this one because I HAVE been seeing and reading some of your posts around town and usually enjoying them as good reads, seriously...but for some reason we're just tripping over each other here.
Im really sorry we arent seeing eye to eye on this one because I HAVE been seeing and reading some of your posts around town and usually enjoying them as good reads, seriously...but for some reason we're just tripping over each other here.
Hangar--I will take you for being reasonable so here goes. I hear what you are saying about Door Number 1--cigarettes are death. But as for Door Number 2, it is an unknown to a certain extent. We know that nicotine inhaled this way is FDA approved with the Nicotine Inhaler. We also know that PG is alos appovoved by the FDA as that is the medium in the Nicotine Inhaler. So the only think in issue is the Flavorings. Yes, the peer review studies are lacking. But what I am trying to say for now at least is that if I have 2 options, and the first one is a known killer, and the second one, although not totally proven to be safer, but again has no evidence against it and most of its ingrediants are already in play in an FDA approved NRT (Nicotine Inhalor), then I am going to opt for Door number two. I have gone in the last 6 months to zero nicotine. I only vape no-nic. So in my mind, looking at what is in the nicotine inhalor that has been given the blessings of the FDA--the only thing that could be harming me is the flaovoring--and it might well be--but the key is might--if I smoke cigarettes I will be harmed --not might.
I do see your point, but I do not like the politics of the FDA and the good old boys with their fear of tobacco tax revenue. I also bear in mind big Pharma --so make no doubt about it. Even if these were 100 percent save--nobody is going to give them the stamp of approval because it does not fit into their agenda--an agenda that has nothing to do with health and everything to do with money---Thanks--Sun
Has it been proven to you Hangar that you won't get throat cancer from drinking hot tea, coffee or chocolate? Then better stop drinking them.
Has it been proven to you that you won't get throat cancer from walking around your neigborhood and breathing in the air contaminated from vehicles? Then better never go outside.
Good grief, we know that smoking can cause lung, throat, bladder, kidney and many other cancers. And we know that the primary reason for that are the products of combustion.
You are simply speculating, based on no medical training or expertise, and apparently little research of your own, that vapor composed of PG, nicotine and flavors could cause throat cancer, when not even those talking of banning ecigs have been able to point to any specific risk whatsoever in that regard. When PG the main ingredient has been extensively studied already, and found not to be harmful when inhaled (studies posted by TBob, and many others due to its use in entertainment facilities, bars and clubs in fog machines). And when there are many doctors (I've certainly cited to articles and letters from several right here on the forum) telling us that ecigs are certainly much safer than smoking cigarettes, because there is no combustion.
I seriously suggest you read and educate yourself some more on these topics.
Has it been proven to you that you won't get throat cancer from walking around your neigborhood and breathing in the air contaminated from vehicles? Then better never go outside.
Good grief, we know that smoking can cause lung, throat, bladder, kidney and many other cancers. And we know that the primary reason for that are the products of combustion.
You are simply speculating, based on no medical training or expertise, and apparently little research of your own, that vapor composed of PG, nicotine and flavors could cause throat cancer, when not even those talking of banning ecigs have been able to point to any specific risk whatsoever in that regard. When PG the main ingredient has been extensively studied already, and found not to be harmful when inhaled (studies posted by TBob, and many others due to its use in entertainment facilities, bars and clubs in fog machines). And when there are many doctors (I've certainly cited to articles and letters from several right here on the forum) telling us that ecigs are certainly much safer than smoking cigarettes, because there is no combustion.
I seriously suggest you read and educate yourself some more on these topics.
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You go! Sun! lol Power to the people!
yet another foolish response more interested in politics than science and safety.
(and if theres one more idiot who says "safer?, safer than what...cigarettes?" im going to puke)
...some of you just dont get it (and in more ways than one im guessing, lol)
Sorry hangar it was an inside joke with Sun....nothing against you
I just like to listen to people voice their opinions and their passions which the Ecig to us a passion. It has gotten us to get off those disgusting analogs. Why may I ask did you start using Ecigs? Did you do it to look cool or did you do it to maybe rid your body of the 4000 other chemicals? That IMHO would make it safer than a cigarette. I myself am going to puke if i hear one more person who is in fact using this product and doesn't know why? Don't you believe in it? If you don't then again why are you using it? I believe that it is sort of hypicritical to use the ecig and then turn around and say it isn't good for you. I had some friends run the juice using GC/Ms and all that was found was nicotine ,pg and the flavoring. I have friends who are nurses and they have asked their docs if nicotine is bad for you and the doc said no worse than caffeine. So have a coke and a smile Please don't call me an idiot because I believe in something maybe you are one for not believing in it and doing it?
All that Melissa is saying is that we all need to stand up for our rights and get some spne. I, for one , am whole hardely tired of seeing people just sit and take whatever is coming at them. Back in my day. we stood up for our rights. Now their is a rule for everything you do and everywhere we go. It is IMO, an outrage to watch our rights be violated at the whim of corupt business profits and politics--especially when it comes to issues that concern health. We got sold down the river with the false claims of light cigarettes and the marketing ploys of big business. Now, with the glimmer of hope that the e-cig brings --comes the very real possibility of a ban on them.
So what are we all going to do--just sit here and say "Yes sir"--I do not think so. Not this time and not without being heard. I do not have standing to participate in approval processes---I have explained that before--what I can do is have my voice heard in the right places and contribute captial to the cause.
So when Melissa says Power to the People, it is a refreshing thing to hear that, with this issue, we are not going to go away quietly. They are dealing with our health and they better have their oars in the water when it comes to this issue--that is my take on it-----Sun
So what are we all going to do--just sit here and say "Yes sir"--I do not think so. Not this time and not without being heard. I do not have standing to participate in approval processes---I have explained that before--what I can do is have my voice heard in the right places and contribute captial to the cause.
So when Melissa says Power to the People, it is a refreshing thing to hear that, with this issue, we are not going to go away quietly. They are dealing with our health and they better have their oars in the water when it comes to this issue--that is my take on it-----Sun
Hangar, have you seen this thread, where Redrose tells us that "Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York City is supporting [her] and e-cigarettes!"?
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3174-great-news-powerhouse-e-cigs-me-too.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3174-great-news-powerhouse-e-cigs-me-too.html
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