E-cigs and electric cars

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el lobo furtivo

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This is my first thread, figured I'd make it a good one. (I realize this should have gone in 'Campaigning' but far more people will read it here)

What if I told you there is a car that gets 70 miles per gallon? That's right, 70. And you can buy it right now for around $8,000. What the heck am I talking about? It's called a Honda Insight. And it came out TEN years ago. Do you remember hearing about it? Probably not. The 2000 model was rated at 70 mpg. The very next year, the exact same car was rated at 56 mpg. It remained in production until 2006. Honda has now revamped the Insight and re-released it for 2010. Estimated fuel economy: 40. Huh? Despite the very popular, very trendy green movement, the technology that would make 100 mpg possible, probably tomorrow, is being withheld because the oil companies and the government stand to lose their donkeys if no one is buying gasoline. Take a look at the other hybrids on the market. They average 40 mpg. The Chevy Malibu hybrid is rated at a laughable 26 mpg.

So what does this have to do with us? Very simple. E-cigs are about to go the way of the electric car. If we allow the government to step in and ban e-cigs, in ten years no one will even remember what a personal vaporizer is. That's unacceptable.

As we stand, we are a vast minority. BT and the FDA will have a very easy time sweeping us under the rug. Especially disjointed and unorganized such as we are. We have no public voice. We can complain, speculate and threaten on this forum but it doesn't get us anywhere. We can write to our senators, our congressmen and our media. But at the end of the day, they are still under the influence of the same politics and corporation we are fighting.

We have numbers and we are growing every day. (Just check out the New Members forum) We have power we just need to decide how to wield it effectively. We need a voice. We need our suppliers to step up and stand by their product. I know the testing and approval process will be expensive but it HAS to be done if the public is going to take us seriously. I for one would pay more for supplies so that these tests could be done. Maybe our suppliers could band together to form a corporation of their own. There has to be at least 40 suppliers here on the forums, together you could be a force to be reckoned with. If Dekang is supplying 90% of the world's e-juice, they can afford to provide test data. Especially in the face of losing half of their market. We need lawyers to tell us how to proceed. (Any lawyers here already?) Lawsuits are in order, challenging the FDA's findings and whether or not the FDA even has jurisdiction over e-cigs. We need to get ourselves in the public eye in a positive light. We need to expose the FDA and these self-righteous politicians seeking to make a name for themselves. Bottom line: We have to act. Now.

The time for petitions and blogging is past. Israel and Oregon have already banned e-cigs. As we speak, our government, under the influence of Big tobacco, is taking away our right to choose to be healthy. Unacceptable.
 

Elendil

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I'm not sure I but into the theory of the 100mpg car or a long range electric car being "withheld" by big oil or Detroit or (insert hated entity here). If one of the "Big 3" actually had the technology for either of these, they could corner the market and make billions by rolling it out first. What is to be gained by not capitalizing on being the first to introduce it?

I'm not convinced that big oil could stop an automaker from introducing it in this age of a faltering economy and the "every man for himself" business climate.

This is akin to those folks who used to swear that there was a car that ran on water, but was being withheld by the powers that be.................
 

el lobo furtivo

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But the technology does exist for a 70 mpg car, why then are the new hybrids only rated at 40? Regardless of the conspiracy theory behind it, my point was that the 'powers that be' are not interested in our well being or the environment. The only green they are interested in is lining their wallets. Same concept applies to us e-smokers.
 

Elendil

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But the technology does exist for a 70 mpg car, why then are the new hybrids only rated at 40?

Well all mileage estimates on the Monroney Stickers were adjusted downward to paint a more realistic picture of the mileage you can expect from cars. This went into effect 2 years ago.

Most of the time the estimated MPG was pure fantasy. The adjustments reflect a much more realistic expectation.

Here is some reading on the subject:

Fuel Economy Label | Fuel Economy | US EPA

EPA to adjust hybrid mileage claims! - GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars

New EPA mileage figures
 

mrrunon

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I'm not sure I but into the theory of the 100mpg car or a long range electric car being "withheld" by big oil or Detroit or (insert hated entity here). If one of the "Big 3" actually had the technology for either of these, they could corner the market and make billions by rolling it out first. What is to be gained by not capitalizing on being the first to introduce it?

I'm not convinced that big oil could stop an automaker from introducing it in this age of a faltering economy and the "every man for himself" business climate.

This is akin to those folks who used to swear that there was a car that ran on water, but was being withheld by the powers that be.................

i don't know.. what if the oil companies extort the higher up execs who would be able to stop the development?
 

Kent C

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Well all mileage estimates on the Monroney Stickers were adjusted downward to paint a more realistic picture of the mileage you can expect from cars. This went into effect 2 years ago.

Most of the time the estimated MPG was pure fantasy. The adjustments reflect a much more realistic expectation.

That's exactly right. I had a friend that got one of the first Insights in Toledo. Sticker said 70mpg and he got around 46 on a trip. Check engine light came on in about a month after he bought and they could never get it to turn off. He used the 'lemon law' to get them to return a full refund for the Insight.

The other problem with the hybrids, ecologically, is that the areas that make the batteries look like the surface of the moon from the nickel production, iirc, there's a plant in Ottawa Canada where a news story had pictures and it did look desolate. In total cost to the environment including manufacturing, pollution and gas miliage, a Hummer is more environmentally friendly and less expensive to operate over 7 years, than a Toyota Prius and mainly because of battery production. This was news about a year and a half ago. Didn't get much play of course, but it's out there.

As the OP suggested, this thread should be moved out of here...
 

Preston Girl

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I never thought about the similarities between the electric car and the e-cig but when you think about it the common thread is $$$$. And with the likes of Bernie Madoff and his contemporaries in the headlines through this financial fiasco, I'm begining to think that $$$ is a more powerful drug than nicotine.

Here's the link to the documentary that Happy Vaper mentioned. It's just under 90 minutes but definately worth watching. And I'm sure you'll recognize the voice of the narrator.

It's from the documentary series "The Passionate Eye" on the CBC. Documentaries Player.
 

VaporPhreak

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I'm not sure I but into the theory of the 100mpg car or a long range electric car being "withheld" by big oil or Detroit or (insert hated entity here). If one of the "Big 3" actually had the technology for either of these, they could corner the market and make billions by rolling it out first. What is to be gained by not capitalizing on being the first to introduce it?

I'm not convinced that big oil could stop an automaker from introducing it in this age of a faltering economy and the "every man for himself" business climate.

This is akin to those folks who used to swear that there was a car that ran on water, but was being withheld by the powers that be.................

Well no offense Elendil, but look at what happened to the Pantone family though. An engine design that uses 80% water to 20% gasoline. Was the guy praised for it? No he was refused a patten, imprisoned for no reason, and beaten within an inch of his life. Not to sound all conspiracy theory on you guys (as I used to make fun of people who thought that way) but this **** actually happened! You can now download the plans for the engine mod free @ geet.nl Dont think it will work? Hit the YouTube and look for the hundreds of videos of people who have built it. My own brother-in-law has seen it in action and is working on one right now.

OK! Off my soap box. Elendil please dont take offense to that I didn't mean anything negative toward you. You know I think you're the man! ;) After all you introduced me to the JS, a gift from the gods. Peace all!
 

el lobo furtivo

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Ok ok...my original point wasn't to point out the conspiracy against electric cars (not that it doesn't warrant discussion) but to draw attention to the similarities. As I said originally, if we don't act decisively, and soon, our little movement is going to be squashed. Quickly and quietly. I have some ideas. Does anyone else?
 

VaporNebula

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This is akin to those folks who used to swear that there was a car that ran on water, but was being withheld by the powers that be.................


I have a hydrogen generator in my focus and after the initial tuning of the system my fuel economy went from an average of 26 mpg to a very respectable 47 mpg for only about $200 worth of parts. Idea of a vehicle totally fueled by water is not out of the question.
 

Preston Girl

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Ok ok...my original point wasn't to point out the conspiracy against electric cars (not that it doesn't warrant discussion) but to draw attention to the similarities. As I said originally, if we don't act decisively, and soon, our little movement is going to be squashed. Quickly and quietly. I have some ideas. Does anyone else?

Like I said, the common thread is $$$$$. I'd be interested and I'm sure others would too, in hearing your ideas.

But let's not try and re-invent the wheel. What worked in promoting the electric car and what didn't work in promoting it. Could we not use their experiences as a road map in promoting the PV?
 
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