eCigs making me SICK after surgery & pneumonia..... anyone know why?

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blondeambition3

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If you are suffering from or have recently suffered from a serious lung disease such as emphysema or pneumonia then you MUST NOT smoke, vape, or inhale anything other than air or O2. Please be sensible - you can only make things worse.

Use Snus or similar until you are well again.

excellent advice... thank you. (You'd think 'common sense' would dictate in a situation such as this hunh? :lol:)

Well, as of last night I did 'notice' I wanted to vape again.... and when I did... it didn't taste quite so bad and it didn't 'hurt' at all.....

I think I'm 'finally' on the road back to recovery..... :)
 

jamie

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We've had numerous people come to the forum because they have emphysema already. Most of the related posts I've seen indicate they start to get better by switching to vaping. I assume if they were okay with inhaling nothing but air, 95% of them wouldn't be here, I mean, they already have emphysema, they've been motivated to do "the best thing" already and were not successful.

Perhaps I've missed important news, but I nothing I've read here (of the smallish % of posts) has indicated to me that we should shoo away people who have emphysema. Given the known demo of vapers, that would be probably a majority of us, many of whom don't even know they have it based on what I've seen real world with early emphysema in smokers.

JMO of course.
 

rolygate

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People with emphysema are at higher risk of contracting pneumonia. We do not yet know if use of an e-cigarette is an increased risk factor here. The sensible thing to do, to maximize the remaining lifespan, is just to stop. For example a doctor in charge of managing the care of a patient with emphysema must tell that patient to cease use of e-cigarettes as well as tobacco.

From the literature:
"Emphysema is an irreversible degenerative condition. The most important measure to slow its progression is for the patient to stop smoking and avoid all exposure to cigarette smoke and lung irritants."

"Individuals who are unfortunate enough to contract this disease have a very short life expectancy, often 3 years at most."

If a person with emphysema continues to smoke or vape they will kill themselves faster. You need to tell them to stop, and avoiding doing that is not the right thing to do. It's up to them, they can decide. A better idea might be to use Snus instead, but you can't tell people what to do - they have the right to kill themselves if that's what they want to do.

The problem for us is that e-cigarettes can be implicated in a terminal emphysema patient's death. This risk is amplified by the higher pneumonia risk of emphysema patients. If someone cannot stop even though they know the time left is short, essentially they are committing suicide and it cannot be blamed on the device used. If someone hangs themselves you don't blame the rope maker. If a dope addict kills themself you don't blame the syringe manufacturer. But unfortunately, crazy as it may seem, in the case of a smoking addict who switches to an e-cigarette at the last minute, and then dies, people will blame the e-cigarette.

If you are dying from self-inflicted smoking disease, just stop, to conserve what little time you have left. If you switch to an e-cig they'll blame us when you finally go - as you will, since that is inevitable. Please don't drag us into it - use Snus, they can't blame Snus for lung disease deaths.

The sockpuppets have already started to blame e-cigs for terminal smoking disease sufferer's deaths, so please let's not encourage more of them.
 
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StormFinch

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Roly, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one my friend. If it was as easy as just being able to stop, none of us would even be here. Emphysema patients are just as addicted as we once were/are, and there have been a number of them right here on this forum that have reported increased lung function from switching to e-cigs. In fact, IIRC some in the early stages have reported new normal ranges. Without these devices they would have had to either continue their addiction, or get on the NRT merry go round, and we all know how that one goes.

Will the powers that be blame e-cigs if an emphysema patient switches today and dies tomorrow? The stupid ones will, but if you or I drop dead from a heart attack an hour from now they just might blame that on e-cigs as well. Should we just stop? If we all just stop because we are afraid that e-cigs are going to be implicated in our deaths, what's the sense in defending e-cigs in the first place? Why throw those people that really need to quit tobacco cigarettes under the bus just because we might be blamed for something that could help extend their quality of life, and is helping ours? If we continue to follow that line of reasoning then only healthy smokers should vape and we might as well shut down the forum and all go home, because a large portion of the healthy smokers are still smoking and fooling themselves into thinking that it isn't effecting them. It's the ones with burning lungs, wheezing in the morning, and are coughing up a lung at night that are coming here to find an alternative.
 

blondeambition3

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I don't have emphysema folks.... my lungs are like that of a child's.. (perfect). I developed pneumonia (after surgery) and as a result of 'that' I no long 'enjoy' vaping... and the vaping caused discomfort... but I'm in no way inferring vaping was the 'cause' of the pneumonia or discomfort.

eCigs (in my humble opinion) have done no damage to my lungs whatsoever... in fact, if anything, it's helped to clear my lungs up. I just couldn't understand 'why' (after surgery), I no longer enjoy it :)
 

rolygate

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@StormFinch
No problem. Here's why I hold that opinion:

If you have terminal lung disease, continuing to inhale anything other than air is either going to have ether no effect on the outcome or may make it worse. It seems to me that the latter is more logical. I think it would be hard to argue against some people being affected negatively.

Yes, quitting smoking and moving to vaping will see improvements in lung function. But will those improvements be as great as ceasing inhalation of all materials?

Emphysema patients are at risk of contracting pneumonia. I can't see how e-cigarette use would help, and it may be a bad idea. We don't know, at this stage - so the safer option is to advise people not to use an e-cig. They can do what they like, but it seems to me a bad idea for ECF members to tell people with terminal lung disease they can keep on inhaling materials that are not specifically proven to benefit them.

It isn't just my opinion that e-cigarettes will be blamed when a smoker with terminal lung disease dies - it's already happened. We really don't want to exacerbate that situation.

If people can't quit then use Snus. Don't make e-cigarettes carry the can for killing people who are dying from smoking tobacco.

I don't see this as avoiding the issue in any way, even if we were not under threat of shutdown I would still tell a family member with terminal emphysema that they have a simple choice: extend your time, or carry on doing what you're doing and go out quicker. Use Snus if you want to stay around longer. That's my opinion.

ECF policy, though, will be that we should not encourage patients with emphysema to switch to vaping. They're going to die, possibly faster, and are going to implicate us in their death. By 'policy' I mean that no statements by staff and no documentation should diverge from that position. What members want to say is up to them. If you want to tell someone with a serious and irreversible lung disease that they are OK to vape - then go ahead, it's only your conscience you have to worry about.

I suppose to be absolutely realistic, such people don't have long anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter if they have two years or three. But maybe they should be told the choices without any confusion: (1) quit smoking and vaping, maximize your time left; (2) continue vaping, possibly reduce your time left; (3) quit smoking/vaping and use Snus, maximise your time left, with maybe some pangs from the lack of hand-to-mouth and instant nic hit. If it was me I'd go for #3. I think :)
 

StormFinch

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Afraid that was a bit of a sidetrack on your thread blondeambition3, and for my part I apologize.

It does sound like your symptoms were a combination of pneumonia and the after effects of the anesthesia, and I'm glad to hear they're abating. I couldn't offer you anything concrete on it though since the surgeries I had were either still on cigarettes or the one time I managed to quit cold turkey temporarily. I do seem to remember absolutely everything tasting like complete garbage though the one time I developed pneumonia though. :) My thoughts and prayers are with you in your full recovery.
 

blondeambition3

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Afraid that was a bit of a sidetrack on your thread blondeambition3, and for my part I apologize.

It does sound like your symptoms were a combination of pneumonia and the after effects of the anesthesia, and I'm glad to hear they're abating. I couldn't offer you anything concrete on it though since the surgeries I had were either still on cigarettes or the one time I managed to quit cold turkey temporarily. I do seem to remember absolutely everything tasting like complete garbage though the one time I developed pneumonia though. :) My thoughts and prayers are with you in your full recovery.

Thank you StormFinch (beautiful Avatar!).... your thoughts & prayers are greatly appreciated... :)
 

StormFinch

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*Sigh* Sorry blondeambition, going to do it again. lol

@Roly Okay, I can see where you're coming from on this.

Yes, I knew the accusations have already started, but from all the research I could dig up it's complete bunk. It's quite unfortunate that, from what I understand, the doctor that started the whole thing took advantage of missing paperwork to do it. Personally I'd be trying to find a way to raise a stink about the whole thing, but then that's just me.

As to the subject of emphysema, as an individual I certainly wouldn't tell a person to continue to vape unless they had no other choice in the matter. If they can quit or switch to a non inhaled version of nicotine, then yes that's the best possible solution. But, if it's between continuing to smoke or switching to e-cigs, then bugger it, I'm going to have to suggest that they at the very least switch. Ultimately it would be best if they use it as an NRT, but that's their decision to make. Considering the number of people I've seen with an oxygen hose attached to their nose and a cigarette in their mouth, or even more awful, a cigarette stuck in their tracheostomy tube, at the worst vaping would be the lesser of two evils IMHO if they can't adapt to a better way.

We as a whole really do need someone, possibly trained in thoracics like the surgeon mentioned in this post; http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/182950-i-asked-opinion-i-got-one.html#post3093356 to study this and weigh in on it publicly. I see the possible risks with flavorings, but the PG is actually used in lung transplant patients as a breathing treatment ingredient to help prevent pneumonia and other types of infections.

I dunno Roly, but we definitely need to find a way to fund more studies, somehow. :)
 

W Axl Rose

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From the literature: "Emphysema is an irreversible degenerative condition. The most important measure to slow its progression is for the patient to stop smoking and avoid all exposure to cigarette smoke and lung irritants." "Individuals who are unfortunate enough to contract this disease have a very short life expectancy said:
To clarify...that 3 year prognosis is for people with stage 4 emphysema and who are to the point where they are on O2. MANY of us former smokers have mild/early emphysema and many have no idea because you really can't tell in the early stages without a series of breathing tests. People can live a long time with mild emphysema as long as they don't continue to do things that damage the lungs.
 
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