EJuice label?

[zoiDman]

... It also benefits vendors and customers to have a powerful association that can lobby the FDA to make improvements to those regulations to better serve the consumers. ...

This is another Reason that AEMSA "May" be a Benefit to the vaping Community.

But until we see what the FDA plans to do, and how effective AEMSA Lobbying Efforts are for their Member's, it is hard to say what will or Will Not Happen.

Wait and See I think are the Words for Today.

BTW - People should not be Under Any Illusions to what AEMSA Priorities are. AEMSA is a Trade Organization. NOT a Consumer Organization.

This is Not to Say that there Can Not be Overlap between what It's Members Want and what Consumers Want.

But in the Event of Diverging Views, AEMSA is going to do what It's Members Want and Not what the General vaping Community Wants. As well they should.

 

[stormwench]

To me, getting consistency from maker to maker and having the label more like those on OCD than food (because of the inactive ingredients lists of things people can be allergic to that does no get listed on food labels for example).

Go to long with a standard (I know there are standard manufacturing practises but those are different from labeling practises) and sooner or later the FDA is going to regulate it and mandate it. Food producers fought it for a long time and even when it was still partly mandatory they were so inconsistent and failed to develop their own standard the FDA stepped in and regulated to the costly solution (but not better than some that had developed during the 'volunteer era).

Even now there is a huge difference between what some label and what others do. I have seen labels that have no more than a flavor name, the mgs and the name of the packager/maker which is currently the minimum requirement to detailed labels that include the % of daily requirement of some of the ingredients in the flavoring (not a bad idea in some cases) and many in between but with varying results. Some place expiration dates, some don't which means the consumer guesses the out of date. Since many don't list preservatives although many are used people don't know whether their product will last long or spoil soon. Batch dates are import - to both consumer and processor. If a consumer has a date it was made they are less likely to review a flavor 'as bad' until they let it age a bit. On the other hand if they pick up a bottle sitting on a vendors shelf somewhere and review it as bad and have no idea its just old you get a review that not accurate or a flavor someone does not buy again, when if fact it might have been a very good choice if not too young or too old. And since there is not a good listing of all ingredients in a mix just a batch date is not enough to know how long the maker has made it to last. Do you need to consult it fast or do you have a little shelf life on it? Good to know as there are only very vague rules of thumb on how long your juice is good for and just contents of the juice can make a difference. For example, Citric Acid can be added as a preservative to extend shelf life. Since you can get it unflavored it does not change the taste of a flavor but because Citric Acid (of course the one that has some flavor) can also be a flavoring - you can add it as a preservative but not list it as so - because it can fall under the generic 'flavoring' part of the label.

Knowing that Citric acid can preserve probably means the same maker who 'recommends' a certain shelf life on some flavors could probably save you money and list his 'citric' juice for al longer life but often doesn't. It can get pretty crazy.

Some better transparency and some real consistency would make a big difference.

 

[EddardinWinter]

My issue with AEMSA is the arbitrary regulations that they have regarding:

1) Food coloring
2) WTAs

They have no valid basis for prohibiting these ingredients I have ever heard. The WTAs are part of many juices many smokers really need when quitting. I understand they represent the manufacturers, not the consumers. But what motivation is there for the high quality vendors I purchase my e-liquid from to change their formula to support standards like the two above that in no proven way improve the quality of the product or make it safer? The removal of WTAs decreases the quality of many e-liquids in quite a few consumers eyes.

Sorry, I oppose AEMSA until further notice. I have already contacted my vendors and voiced that opinion.

We have no idea what regulations the FDA will attempt to impose. To speculate that it will inevitably be severe and harm consumers and vendors is in my opinion, without merits. To do so to intimidate vendors into joining AESMA is unethical. I am not saying it is being explicitly done on this thread.

 

[zoiDman]

My issue with AEMSA is the arbitrary regulations that they have regarding:

1) Food coloring
2) WTAs

They have no valid basis for prohibiting these ingredients I have ever heard. ...

They aren't Prohibiting Anything. They Don't have that Power. That Power lies with the FDA/HHS.

If a e-Liquid seller wants to add WTA or Colorants to e-Liquid, currently, No One is stopping them. They just can't be a AEMSA Certified Member. Which is Voluntary.

 

[DC2]

Time for a "Marching Million vapers Vaping" to be organised for every state capital on same day...

It may come to that some day, but that day definitely won't come before we see the FDA's proposed regulations.

 

[EddardinWinter]

They aren't Prohibiting Anything. They Don't have that Power. That Power lies with the FDA/HHS.

If a e-Liquid seller wants to add WTA or Colorants to e-Liquid, currently, No One is stopping them. They just can't be a AEMSA Certified Member. Which is Voluntary.

If those become the basis of FDA regulation, and if they are working with the FDA, the requirement for certification could become a prohibited ingredient.

My question of the arbitrary and capricious nature of these restrictions stands unanswered. Why are they prohibited?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[Zztalk.talkzz]

My issue with AEMSA is the arbitrary regulations that they have regarding:

1) Food coloring
2) WTAs

They have no valid basis for prohibiting these ingredients I have ever heard. The WTAs are part of many juices many smokers really need when quitting. I understand they represent the manufacturers, not the consumers. But what motivation is there for the high quality vendors I purchase my e-liquid from to change their formula to support standards like the two above that in no proven way improve the quality of the product or make it safer? The removal of WTAs decreases the quality of many e-liquids in quite a few consumers eyes.

Sorry, I oppose AEMSA until further notice. I have already contacted my vendors and voiced that opinion.

We have no idea what regulations the FDA will attempt to impose. To speculate that it will inevitably be severe and harm consumers and vendors is in my opinion, without merits. To do so to intimidate vendors into joining AESMA is unethical. I am not saying it is being explicitly done on this thread.

I'm sorry but what qualifies you to say "WTAs are part of many juices many smokers REALLY NEED when quitting" (logical fallacy of misplaced authority)
Then... "Safer" is the goal of ecigs? That's why they where invented in the first place? And they are not keeping you from buying what you want? But eventually people in AUTHORITY will police us (evidence Canada? And others). Not everyone is you, and some people like me are allergic to this stuff, but not everyone knows. If I was not aware of my problem I could Vape too much and.... Well you don't need to know my problems, the point is not everyone is you? When the laws get passed it will not be your "opinion" authority's will look/hear. Because I am one person who was harmed by not properly explaining what's in the juice. I may be one in a million but why should I have to suffer because a vender refuses to explain what food colouring or sugars they choose to use? Ignorance like this make people like me go back to smoking because vaping some stuff hurts me? I'm trying to win juice from every vender I can find so I can put 3 drops in a dripper to see if it hurts me... But I can only try one per day... Luckily I won some high desert vapes who made me some organic sweet peach tea that taste more like flowers... It's a great taste and more importantly it does not make me tired or hurt. Not everyone is you, and not everyone is me. Let AESMA defend its members and just sit back and see what happens. Research (real authority) is being done and the majority (American lung association) are trying to say that trace amounts of a bad thing will harm you (a.k.a. Legally liable). If juice companies don't want to join, they don't have to. Why rag on them here for doing a good thing for some people (not to you) like me?

 

[sonicdsl]

Let's keep this on topic please. Have AEMSA debates in a different thread. The CASAA forum is not the place to debate that. This thread is about a consumer-centric point of view on e-liquid labels.

Thank you

 

[ScottP]

We need some standards so as to clean up this mess before Federal Laws get passed and limit our ability to DIY?

1) Ingredients List
Standard Ingredients by volume (27PG/56VG/1.2NIC/15.8-Other) Nic 99.97 pure.
- PG/VG/Nic/Other total % by volume. (From all individual ingredients) [Should equal 100]
- Other? now... List of chemical ingredients FDA requires on labels like colouring, sugars, acids, water, alcohol & Flavour Stabilisers.

2) Warning label:
Keep away from children and never Ingest(eat/drink) or inject! Or whatever legal people suggest

3) Small print for tracking and vender legal safety:
- Nic purity, Origen, age, mix date, expiration (actual manufacturer & date/batch# for tracking reasons like with beef)
- List of Solvents: If "Home-made" or solvent extraction is"in house" to concentrate or isolate whats wanted from the unwanted.
(Solvents like H20, PG, VG, alcohol, C02, N02, petroleum, acetone, ISO, lighter-fluid.)
(Because some salvants are "less-toxic" than others in trace amounts: see objections by health organizations for lists)
(Not important for mixers if buying concentrates from venders ignore, that info can be easily tracked after, just keep good records)

***If you are a eJuice vender understand, if you want to make real $$$ you must learn to play by other people's Rules... Not yours!***
******Or, as a sales man "don't sell from your pocket, the buyer may have more or less"******

If a vender was trustworthy and had this info on bottle... I would pay $1 per mil? Without it... 33-50¢.

You mean something like this:


Here is a close up, showing the Nic Strength, PG/VG amounts, Mfg date, Ingredients, Under age 18 warning and Swallowing warning.

 

[Zztalk.talkzz]

Yes, very good start! That's one reason why MtBaker is on my list. I just wish they would not say the same thing (except VG/PG) which is the same on every bottle I looked at? "Natural & artificial" flavours. I have been trying to win some over the last 3 weeks so I can see if it will make me react but I will have to wait. And again I realise I'm the exception. I just want to be safe(within budget) also, without needing to DIY myself because I'm in an Apartment and can't keep the toxic parts safe Enough with three kids and 900sq feet to work with. With the price war that's about to happen because of lack of supply (big companies getting first pick) it will become harder and harder for the smaller companies to get the base products.

 

[ScottP]

Yes, very good start! That's one reason why MtBaker is on my list. I just wish they would not say the same thing (except VG/PG) which is the same on every bottle I looked at? "Natural & artificial" flavours. I have been trying to win some over the last 3 weeks so I can see if it will make me react but I will have to wait. And again I realise I'm the exception. I just want to be safe(within budget) also, without needing to DIY myself because I'm in an Apartment and can't keep the toxic parts safe Enough with three kids and 900sq feet to work with. With the price war that's about to happen because of lack of supply (big companies getting first pick) it will become harder and harder for the smaller companies to get the base products.

Look at the ingredients of various items on the food and snack isles at the grocery store. Nearly everything has "Natural & artificial flavors" listed. Since no other food/drink products have to break that down further, I see no need for it with juice. Now they DO need to list various food colorings especially Red40 since people can have allergies to those but I don't think colorings are added to juice beyond what is in the flavoring.

As far as DIY and keeping toxic materials out of the hand of children you could pick up some sort of small safe/lock box on the cheap at Wal-Mart that should work for this if you wanted to. You can get some pretty decent lock boxes for between $12 and $36 here:
http://www.walmart.com/search/searc...earch_query=Safe&search_sort=4&cat_id=1072864

 

[Zztalk.talkzz]

Look at the ingredients of various on the food and snack isles at the grocery store. Nearly everything has "Natural & artificial flavors" listed. Since no other food/drink products have to break that down further, I see no need for it with juice. Now they DO need to list various food colorings especially Red40 since people can have allergies to those but I don't think colorings are added to juice beyond what is in the flavoring.

As far as DIY and keeping toxic materials out of the hand of children you could pick up some sort of small safe/lock box on the cheap at Wal-Mart that should work for this if you wanted to. You can get some pretty decent lock boxes for between $12 and $36 here:
http://www.walmart.com/search/searc...earch_query=Safe&search_sort=4&cat_id=1072864

Yes, and 99% of those things I can't eat ether? And I have a small safe from Walmart, my oldest (9) has fun cracking it? Very frustrating but fun to watch. I trust my kids mostly but my wife is extra sensitive to "harmful things in the house"... On the plus side I think if I can't get this to work I've at least the strength and confidence now to just quit. I found on DIY that will send 1.2 Nic+ max-VG and nothing else... And plain is not bad.

 

[ScottP]

Yes, and 99% of those things I can't eat ether? And I have a small safe from Walmart, my oldest (9) has fun cracking it? Very frustrating but fun to watch. I trust my kids mostly but my wife is extra sensitive to "harmful things in the house"... On the plus side I think if I can't get this to work I've at least the strength and confidence now to just quit. I found on DIY that will send 1.2 Nic+ max-VG and nothing else... And plain is not bad.

I am sorry that you cannot eat/drink certain things due to allergies I really feel for you. I still cannot see making one product having to break down "artificial and natural flavors" when every other product does not. If you want this to happen it will have to be forced on EVERY product which will be a much larger battle.

Your 9yr old cracks safes?!?! I hope it is just a 3 roller combo type lock. have you considered a key safe instead? Also there are in the $36 range safes that have digital 8 digit combos which would be a lot harder to crack.

Of course quitting is always the safest alternative and I wish you luck in this endeavor. I would love to as well, but I am having to drag my wife down this road practically kicking and screaming. I have her vaping now, but she looks for every excuse to try and get me to let her buy some analogs. Quitting fully is not in our cards just yet. Maybe in a year or so when she is not begging for analogs anymore. The biggest detriment to our situation is her best friend who gives her an analog or two every time my wife asks for one.

 

[Zztalk.talkzz]

I am sorry that you cannot eat/drink certain things due to allergies I really feel for you. I still cannot see making one product having to break down "artificial and natural flavors" when every other product does not. If you want this to happen it will have to be forced on EVERY product which will be a much larger battle.

Of course quitting is always the safest alternative and I wish you luck in this endeavor. I would love to as well, but I am having to drag my wife down this road practically kicking and screaming. I have her vaping now, but she looks for every excuse to try and get me to let her buy some analogs. Quitting fully is not in our cards just yet. Maybe in a year or so when she is not begging for analogs anymore. The biggest detriment to our situation is her best friend who gives her an analog or two every time my wife asks for one.

Yes, 3 roller. And there are many ways to get chemicals into our body (Topical, ingestion, injection, inhalation and others) all have different toxicity's and our opposition(American lung association) seems to know that better than we do? Vaping Nic + VG has no taste but works perfect for me. I just don't like it as much. And I just want a companies to understand that governmental over site looks at the bottom 10% who have bad reactions to judge the legality of the other 90% (which I think is wrong) but being one of these lower percentages I'm not getting the information I (personally) need to judge which will work and which will not (before I buy). If you go down the "organic" isle you would be surprised at the amount of info on the labels for people like me... We pay more, but its worth it to not have your hands cramp up and make it impossible to do the daily things.

That's why we need to know what type of sugars, not just "sugar" but what type?
That's why we need some labels to read "natural flavours" and not "natural & artificial"?
That's why we need "batch" or "lot" numbers to track possible contaminations back to original supplier... Just like food?

Would love to see "gluten free" or "corn free" or "natural-organic" or "Kosher" or "naturally Coloured" or "all-natural" or "tree-nut-free" or any number of added reasons for someone to pay more or buy more at one time... Some would be surprised how many people may be willing to pay more... And some juices already are all these things? Even if you made it for 50ml and larger, smaller bottles have limited "sample" labels with simplified information. But the most important thing to understand is this: if we don't, Big Brother or Big Tobacco will! And I don't want to give them any more of my money! I know it is hard and time consuming but that's how money is made?

P.s. your wife may be having a mild reaction to something in the juice, before I know some of my Allergies I was constantly confused as to why I felt on edge or twitchy or sweetly or tired after eating/drinking? I was also 265lbs now happily 150-160 without working out (which I need to do now I can breath better

I know it will be hard, but if anyone knows of a companies who know about allergic problems I would love to buy their juice.