Electronic Cigarettes: Special Report (NBC17- Raliegh, NC)

[Bill Godshall]

Electronic Cigarettes: Special Report (NBC17- Raliegh, NC)
Special Report: Electronic Cigarettes | NBC17.com

This news story was mentioned in the thread about the NC Health Director misleading the public about e-cigarettes. But I thought it deserved its own thread so more folks would view.

 

[ncargrl]

Thank you!

 

[pianoguy]

I still want to know what kind of parents give their juveniles a credit card so that they can order e-cigarettes on the internet.

 

[DaMulta]

I still want to know what kind of parents give their juveniles a credit card so that they can order e-cigarettes on the internet.

My son has his own debit card for amazon....(he is only 8)

 

[pianoguy]

My son has his own debit card for amazon....(he is only 8)

I'll bet you'd know in a hurry if he ordered an e-cigarette with it.

 

[Vocalek]

I still want to know what kind of parents give their juveniles a credit card so that they can order e-cigarettes on the internet.

The same kind who give their juvenile a credit card so that they can order alcohol, pornography, and prescription drugs from overseas on the internet.

 

[Vocalek]

My son has his own debit card for amazon....(he is only 8)

I would assume you exert some type of parental control over his use of this card.

 

[Brady]

Taken from the link
"NBC-17 wanted to see if kids could get their hands on e-cigarettes. We went to greensmoke.com, bought some e-cigarettes, it did not ask for our age once.

“They're not safe,” Goldstein said.

On the other side, Dr. Joel Nitzkin has worked on a national tobacco control task force since 2007. He acknowledges that e-cigarettes contain trace amounts of nitrosamines, but says Nicorette products do as well.

“Yes, e-cigarettes do contain trace amounts of nitrosamines, but so do the Nicorette products that the FDA has fully approved,” said Nitzkin.

Nitzkin also thinks e-cigarettes are a good option for smokers, and he likes that there is no second hand smoke.

When asked about the nicotine in e-cigarettes, Nitzkin said, “Nicotine, which is the addictive drug, is not the cause of cancer, heart disease and other major illness due to cigarettes.”

The state health department believes consumers have the right to know more about these products."


This is a great article

 

[rothenbj]

I commented-

Was a 43 year smoker, 2-3 packs a day. That was 16 months ago. Using E cigs and Swedish snus, I haven't had a puff on a cigarette in nine months and have no desire to do so. I barely use by E cig anymore and have definitely broken the hand to mouth habit. Now some points on this article.

Dr Goldstein says he's been researching smoking cessation for twenty years and that there's no evidence that they work. He obviously isn't strong on searching the internet because there is a lot of evidence there that they do. I suppose he is part of that group that believes that NRT "works" even though it has an abysmal 2% success rate after twenty months. Part of that quit, smoke, quit, smoke, quit, smoke die mentality that is tobacco control.

Sally Herndon, more of tobacco control, that can't seem to do a search of the internet to find safety tests that have been run. Hint, go to casaa.org. They have links to what you can't find yourself.

Plus who is Nancy Kramer?

"Nancy Kramer disagrees.

“They have these groups of people that are drinking and laughing and smoking their e-cigarettes and there is smoke flying around. That is actually not the reality of what it is like to smoke these cigarettes,” Kramer said. "

I saw people sitting around the other day drinking and laughing while smoking their coffee and hot chocolate. Plus in a couple months I'll be watching everyone walking down the street smoking their breaths. Nancy, it's VAPOR not SMOKE!

"“They're not safe,” Goldstein said." I'm going to give you some advice. Seatbelts aren't safe, life rafts aren't safe, football helmets aren't safe, prophylactics aren't safe, pharmaceutical drugs aren't safe. However they're all safer than the alternative. If a bit of nicotine and a few other substances already acknowledged as generally accepted as safe by the FDA aren't logically SAFER than smoking, I don't know what would be. In case you didn't know, 98-99% of the danger of tobacco is in the smoke. You may have lost track of that fact in this prohitionist environment.

Finally, NBC-17, I can't let you off the hook. You mentioned one web site that didn't do age verification. Is that the ONLY web site you went to or the only one you could find that met with your criteria of not doing their job right. The exception to the rule can always be found if you look hard enough. However you'd still need a credit card and about $150 for a starter kit. Does that sound like something a child is going to invest in?

 

[JonnyVapΣ]

Parents who give their kids credit cards with zero oversight have a whole hell of a lot more to worry about than an e-cig. I mean, that's the assumption being made here, right? Since it takes a credit card to purchase online. A kid can use a credit card to buy crack. Where's that "news story"? Or does reporting on something like that take too much work? E-cigs are the "easy target of the moment". "News" agencies don't have any new Mel Gibson tapes or kids flying across the country in a balloon to make a spectacle of so they half-... report on something like e-cigs since it's on the rise in popularity. Do they ever report that many e-cigs sell without nicotine or any "juice" at all? Never. It's nothing but a Personal Vaporizer. Reading and watching these "news stories" you'd think that nicotine is a requirement in "smoking" these devices. Unfortunately, this is exactly what people who know nothing about these devices will believe after watching such poor reporting.

I'm not going to pick this entire toilet filler apart but here are a few notables;
“There is no evidence that they work,” Goldstein said. - This idiot can't find this forum or others like it yet he's worthy of public opinion?

“A cigarette goes out after one cigarette, you might have an electronic cigarette that might have five or 10 cigarettes,” Goldstein explained. - Hey, idiot, there are 20 cigarettes in the average pack. I know for a fact I can light another when one goes out. Apparently when you switch to vaping you lose all control over yourself (I see you wise-asses ready to jump on that one...LOL).

"Goldstein has been researching tobacco cessation programs for 20 years..." - If I were his employer I'd fire him for all this shoddy work.

"NBC-17 wanted to see if kids could get their hands on e-cigarettes. We went to greensmoke.com, bought some e-cigarettes, it did not ask for our age once." - This babble means absolutely nothing. NBC-17 made a purchase (supposedly) at greensmoke.com. Not some kid. Kids can't make credit card purchases. If they did give a kid a credit card to make that purchase then where is their report on kids breaking the law by using credit cards? Requiring the purchaser to use a credit card is age verification. And, really? REALLY?? The issue is about the site asking for age? What's that supposed to do? How is the site supposed to know I'm not 7924 years old?

 

[Vocalek]

I left a comment that touches on a lot of the points you just raised, Jonny:

Let's dispel a few myths perpetuated in this story. 1) Smoke is produced by the process of combustion. Since nothing is burned in a so-called "electronic cigarette" there is no smoke. We consumers prefer the more accurate term "personal vaporizer" (PV). 2) We do know what's in them--ingredients Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) by the FDA. Read the package: Propylene glycol, water, flavoring, and (optionally) nicotine. 3) The target market for these products are smokers who would like to stop inhaling smoke but who want to continue to enjoy a smoking-like experience or the beneficial effects of nicotine. 4) Children cannot purchase the products over the internet without a valid credit card. If they have one, they could also be purchasing alcohol, ordering prescription drugs from overseas, or viewing offensive materials. Bottom line: The solution to this potential problem is parental vigilence.

Dr. Goldstein missed a few facts when doing his extensive research. Had he read the Health New Zealand test report , he would have known each puff from a PV delivers only 1/10 the amount of nicotine as a puff of smoke. It's difficult to OD on that. And because the users don't have to continuously puff, as is required with tobacco cigarettes to keep them lit, most users end up inhaling a lot less nicotine than they did from smoking. They take a puff or two, and then set them down. More importantly, users are not exposed to the constituents in smoke that actually do cause cancer, heart, and lung disease: tar, carbon monoxide, particulates, and thousands of chemicals created by the process of combustion.

He also missed reading published surveys showing that 63% to 79% of PV consumers have completely replaced their smoked cigarettes. The same surveys show that 90% of consumers report their health has improved--even those who only used the devices to reduce the number of cigarettes smoked.

I'm surprised that Dr. Goldstein doesn't know that the FDA-approved Nicorette products come in yummy flavors such as White Ice, Kool Mint, Cinnamon Surge, and Fruit Splash. Shame on GlaxoSmithKline for targeting children with their products!

If Dr. Goldstein can say "There's no evidence they work," perhaps he has no patients who smoked for decades and tried 10 times or more to quit without success. Hundreds of thousands of folks like this were finally were able to put away the lighter after making the switch.

If Dr. Goldstein can say "they're not safe" with a straight face, maybe he doesn't have any patients who wheeze, hack, and cough from years of smoking. I lost the wheeze and the cough after switching to the PV 19 months ago, and so have a multitude of other former smokers.

 

[JustJulie]

Beautiful, Elaine.

I have a 17 year old with her own debit card that can be used as a credit card. I try to find a balance between giving her some privacy and properly monitoring her because, after all, she still isn't an adult. I occasionally monitor her purchases using her card. It's my responsibility as a parent to actually parent my child, and that includes appropriate supervision.

I'm not too worried about her buying a PV, though . . . she thinks they look dorky, as do her friends. I suspect that FDA-approved Marlboro cigarettes would be far more attractive to most teens than geeky PVs that old people use.

 

[JonnyVapΣ]

My daughter is 17 as well. She'll do whatever she'll do with her mother but she knows there won't be credit card use through me...LOL. I don't even approve of the cell phone, but that's another story. She does think the e-cigs are neat and is very happy that I quit smoking by making the switch. She doesn't smoke now and has no interest in either, though (despite the kid magnet flavors).

 

[Bill Godshall]

While this news story would have far better had the reporter (Jackie Faye) not lost the video of Joel Nitzkin's interview, it was still an excellent promotion for e-cigarettes to smokers that want a less hazardous alternative.

As one who has known Adam Goldstein for more than 20 years, I was disappointed, but not surprised, by his inaccurate and misleading comments about e-cigarettes. In previous news stories, Adam has made similarly inaccurate and misleading comments about smokeless tobacco products.

Instead of being a public health advocate, Adam is an abstinence-only anti-tobacco prohibitionist.