I wanted to post this in the eliquid forum, but I guess you have to post 5 threads here first. I may re-post it there if I don't get any answers here. I recently decided to give up smoking for good, and switch to an electronic cigarette. After doing a bit of internet research, I came across this site, which has given me a lot of useful information.
My reasons for using e-cigs is really just to replace regular cigarettes. The most important part of this switch for me is finding out what strength eliquid I should use, and how much liquid I should intake each day to find the happy balance between nicotine sickness and nicotine withdrawal.
I purchased a 24 mg liquid from a local shop near me that makes their own liquid, going with the maximum amount because I wanted to make sure that I could switch completely off of cigarettes on day 1 with no withdrawal symptoms. I started with a 4 mL vial in case I wanted to lower the concentration. That same night, I was reading and subconsciously taking drags off the setup that I purchased, without really paying attention to how much I was doing it. I was probably taking 1 or 2 drags per minute over the course of about an hour, with my voltage turned up to the highest setting (4.8). At this point, I started getting what felt like a panic attack....I could feel my heart beat increase, and got quite light-headed. After it passed (about a minute or two), I decided that I had probably tried too high of a nicotine concentration. I went back to regular cigarettes until I was able to go back to the vapor shop 2 days later.
When I went back, I wasn't sure if I wanted to try 18 mg or 12 mg. I decided to ask a few questions, to clear up a few things I had assumed the first time. One of these assumptions was that the amount I had purchased was actually the concentration per mL (ie, 24 mg = 24 mg/mL). I asked the first person I talked to if the amount is the concentration per mL. He kind of gave me a blank stare at first, and then said that it's the actual amount that goes into the vial. There was a setup that showed the different vial volumes they offered nearby, so I used that to clarify if I understood him correctly. The sizes range from 2 mL to 100 mL. I asked him, "So if I ordered a 100 mL vial of 24 mg nicotine content, you would put 24 mg in the 100 mL vial; If I ordered a 2 mL vial of 24 mg nicotine content, you would still put 24 mg in the 2 mL vial?" He said yes.
Now I started to get a bit worried....it doesn't take a genius to realize that with varying volumes available, it's the concentration that determines the strength of the eliquid, not the mass of nicotine that is mixed in the vial. Some very simple math shows that if the shop employee I was talking to was correct, if I purchased the 2 mL vial the concentration would be 12 mg in every mL. If I purchased the 100 mL vial, the concentration would be 0.24 mg in every mL.....or 50 times more dilute than the 2 mL vial. I knew this couldn't possibly be correct, so I went back and forth with him for another minute, eventually determining that this guy had no clue what a concentration was. He really thought that every vial of the same strength, no matter the volume, had the same mass of nicotine.
I knew this couldn't be the case...I just had to ask a manger or owner. I noticed that one older gentleman was telling people what to do and observing the employees, so I asked him the same question. At first, he told me the same thing the first employee had said. If you order 24 mg, no matter the volume of the vial, 24 mg of nicotine is in the vial. With a little pressing and visual demonstration from me though, I think he realized the absurdity of that claim. However, what he told me next surprised me even more. I asked if the 24 mg was distributed throughout the entire volume of the vial, regardless of the vial volume, and he told me "24 mg is the amount you get from each hit".
What?? I had done a little research on nicotine absorbed from smoking cigarettes before buying the ecig, and if what he was telling me was correct, every drag from my 24 mg liquid was roughly equivalent to smoking about 25 cigarettes. Again, this couldn't possibly be correct....I gave up, bought 12 mg liquid, and went home.
This whole experience actually has me afraid of using the eliquid that is available. There does not seem to be much regulation that manufacturers must follow, and the fact that no one in the shop I went to that MAKES THEIR OWN LIQUID understood the simple concept of "concentration" frightens me. When you smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, you know that you are getting a fairly consistent amount of nicotine daily, due to the strict regulations. It is possible to overdose on nicotine....and if a manufacturer miscalculates and puts an extremely high amount of nicotine in a vial, I don't know how I would tell. I really want to switch completely over to ecigarettes, but this experience has me wondering if I should wait until the business is a bit more regulated.
Any feedback would be appreciated...particularly anyone who knows the quality control philosophy of some of the more reputable liquid dealers. I'm aware this shop may not be indicative of all liquid shops, but it actually has a really good reputation around where I live. I just blows my mind that they are making a solution of a potent drug, selling it, and knew so little about the questions I asked.
My reasons for using e-cigs is really just to replace regular cigarettes. The most important part of this switch for me is finding out what strength eliquid I should use, and how much liquid I should intake each day to find the happy balance between nicotine sickness and nicotine withdrawal.
I purchased a 24 mg liquid from a local shop near me that makes their own liquid, going with the maximum amount because I wanted to make sure that I could switch completely off of cigarettes on day 1 with no withdrawal symptoms. I started with a 4 mL vial in case I wanted to lower the concentration. That same night, I was reading and subconsciously taking drags off the setup that I purchased, without really paying attention to how much I was doing it. I was probably taking 1 or 2 drags per minute over the course of about an hour, with my voltage turned up to the highest setting (4.8). At this point, I started getting what felt like a panic attack....I could feel my heart beat increase, and got quite light-headed. After it passed (about a minute or two), I decided that I had probably tried too high of a nicotine concentration. I went back to regular cigarettes until I was able to go back to the vapor shop 2 days later.
When I went back, I wasn't sure if I wanted to try 18 mg or 12 mg. I decided to ask a few questions, to clear up a few things I had assumed the first time. One of these assumptions was that the amount I had purchased was actually the concentration per mL (ie, 24 mg = 24 mg/mL). I asked the first person I talked to if the amount is the concentration per mL. He kind of gave me a blank stare at first, and then said that it's the actual amount that goes into the vial. There was a setup that showed the different vial volumes they offered nearby, so I used that to clarify if I understood him correctly. The sizes range from 2 mL to 100 mL. I asked him, "So if I ordered a 100 mL vial of 24 mg nicotine content, you would put 24 mg in the 100 mL vial; If I ordered a 2 mL vial of 24 mg nicotine content, you would still put 24 mg in the 2 mL vial?" He said yes.
Now I started to get a bit worried....it doesn't take a genius to realize that with varying volumes available, it's the concentration that determines the strength of the eliquid, not the mass of nicotine that is mixed in the vial. Some very simple math shows that if the shop employee I was talking to was correct, if I purchased the 2 mL vial the concentration would be 12 mg in every mL. If I purchased the 100 mL vial, the concentration would be 0.24 mg in every mL.....or 50 times more dilute than the 2 mL vial. I knew this couldn't possibly be correct, so I went back and forth with him for another minute, eventually determining that this guy had no clue what a concentration was. He really thought that every vial of the same strength, no matter the volume, had the same mass of nicotine.
I knew this couldn't be the case...I just had to ask a manger or owner. I noticed that one older gentleman was telling people what to do and observing the employees, so I asked him the same question. At first, he told me the same thing the first employee had said. If you order 24 mg, no matter the volume of the vial, 24 mg of nicotine is in the vial. With a little pressing and visual demonstration from me though, I think he realized the absurdity of that claim. However, what he told me next surprised me even more. I asked if the 24 mg was distributed throughout the entire volume of the vial, regardless of the vial volume, and he told me "24 mg is the amount you get from each hit".
What?? I had done a little research on nicotine absorbed from smoking cigarettes before buying the ecig, and if what he was telling me was correct, every drag from my 24 mg liquid was roughly equivalent to smoking about 25 cigarettes. Again, this couldn't possibly be correct....I gave up, bought 12 mg liquid, and went home.
This whole experience actually has me afraid of using the eliquid that is available. There does not seem to be much regulation that manufacturers must follow, and the fact that no one in the shop I went to that MAKES THEIR OWN LIQUID understood the simple concept of "concentration" frightens me. When you smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, you know that you are getting a fairly consistent amount of nicotine daily, due to the strict regulations. It is possible to overdose on nicotine....and if a manufacturer miscalculates and puts an extremely high amount of nicotine in a vial, I don't know how I would tell. I really want to switch completely over to ecigarettes, but this experience has me wondering if I should wait until the business is a bit more regulated.
Any feedback would be appreciated...particularly anyone who knows the quality control philosophy of some of the more reputable liquid dealers. I'm aware this shop may not be indicative of all liquid shops, but it actually has a really good reputation around where I live. I just blows my mind that they are making a solution of a potent drug, selling it, and knew so little about the questions I asked.
)
