eliquids - china or US?

[swedishfish]

Just to be certain, is the implication that Chinese juice is sterile or vice versa?

Well, according to Dekang I guess.

This is why I really dislike posts like this especially in the newbie forum. No one here that I'm aware of has been in the chinese factory. I know some vendors have, but I know I haven't. It doesn't mean that much to me that dekang being the huge company that they are was able to pay someone to check their juice and receive some sort of certification. I'm not saying it's not real or not accurate but SGS is a private business.

My feeling - buy dekang juice if you like the taste of it. If you don't, and I don't but your juice elsewhere. This is a relatively new enterprise, and I'd say most suppliers and vendors in this country are small compared to China. Does that make them worse? To me it doesn't.

But then again, I was a 20+ year smoker that put about 3,000 chemicals in my body on a daily basis. So it's a little silly to me go get all crazy about where a juice is being made and be overly impressed by a bunch of people in lab coats and hairnets. I like the vendors I buy from.

 

[TheMiz]

What about Croatia or Europe-made e-liquid? Anyone tried?

 

[Kent C]

Pretty sure Halo makes their own nic juice in a lab in Connecticut? and Decadent Vapours makes his own in the UK.

 

[Morgythekilla]

With what is going on in this world right now, economy, wars, and disasters, why would anyone not buy a USA product? I think you are pretty silly IMHO to buy from China right now, and they won't even ship out anyway right now unless they have stocked product, if your lucky enough to have your mail pass through. The ONLY reputable manufacturer in China is Dekang, and I won't even trust their liquid. And as for US liquids, most of the sites you come upon are people trying to start a "business" and mixing .... up in their kitchens. The only reputable Juice maker I have read of is JC. I am very OCD about iffy things and when I first started pondering the idea of ecigs, I put well worth my time of researching into it, as I am sure we all do. If there is a trustwothy Ejuice maker co. out there, they would have spent money on more advertising and professionalism, like JC has done, to prove to you it's professional grade. Don't buy from China people, seriously.. I already made that mistake and guess what? I was in the hospital the next day with a headache I thought was a concussion from snowboarding.. It turned out it wasn't and that I had a major respitory illness, bacteria or virus. Lasted for 2 weeks. I vaped the chinese stuff again, got sick again. Stopped vaping it, am better. I am not saying all product from China is bad, because we need some of their products, but nothing that can be ingested..

 

[wv2win]

Since most or all of the nic comes from China, there isn't much a vaper can do about that. But IMO, while there is no guarantee a U.S. manufacturer (mixer) isn't re-labeling less expensive Chinese juices, or using non-USP grade PG/VG and FEMA/GRAS approved flavorings (despite what they might claim on their label or website) - I think it is more likely that a U.S. mixer is going to be purchasing those higher quality components which are readily available here at reasonable cost.

U.S. manufacturers of PG, VG, and flavorings are going to be producing an approved product. A U.S. mixer would have to somewhat go out of their way to order cheaper components from China, as well as the nic, to be producing an inferior quality product at a lower cost. Likewise a Chinese manufacturer is probably not importing U.S. components when cheaper substitutes are abundantly available in China, and cost is the driving force for consumers choosing Chinese imports over domestic mixes.

China has a history of substituting toxic chemicals for safer ones in order to cut costs. This includes recent exports of VG tainted with deadly levels of toxic substances, leading to consumer deaths (in Panama).

I personally would either purchase from a U.S. manufacturer using USP grade PG/VG, or DIY, than take a risk on Chinese juices.

This is just pure "bias" on the quality and safety of Chinese e-liquid and has no basis in fact. I could just as easily point out that some US makers of liquid make it at the kitchen table where the baby just threw up prior to mixing the next batch of liquid to be sent out.

 

[wv2win]

I wonder if the materials used in the production of atomizers and cartomizers may have a residue of some sort that might be harmful? That residue or the quality of the metal could degrade when heated and produce a harmful reaction to the human body. It would be safer to buy all your cartomizers and atomizers from the US to insure that this possible danger can be avoided. Oh wait, all atomizers and cartomizers are made in CHINA! Maybe we should just go back to our American made cigarettes.

 

[DaveP]

Not that I've heard any detrimental comments, but how do we know that our atomizers are lead free? The bridge material could be suspect, for all I know. It looks suspiciously like the shielding in a microphone cable, which is solder dipped. The old ones were tinned using lead/tin compounds. The new ones are made using lead free components, but what is in the bridge material in a Chinese atty?

Just saying...you never know.

 

[jlarsen]

Not that I've heard any detrimental comments, but how do we know that our atomizers are lead free? The bridge material could be suspect, for all I know. It looks suspiciously like the shielding in a microphone cable, which is solder dipped. The old ones were tinned using lead/tin compounds. The new ones are made using lead free components, but what is in the bridge material in a Chinese atty?

Just saying...you never know.

It would be nice to see some USA made, guaranteed lead free atomizers manufactured and sold. In fact, it would be nice to see a complete line of ecig supplies and juices made from the ground up here in the US, no Chinese nic, no Chinese atomizers. Batteries from China would be ok, I guess, since that doesn't influence what is being inhaled.

 

[jlarsen]

Pretty sure Halo makes their own nic juice in a lab in Connecticut? and Decadent Vapours makes his own in the UK.

They make their own ejuice, but it is doubtful if they make or extract their own nicotine. It would be nice if they did.

 

[jlarsen]

This is just pure "bias" on the quality and safety of Chinese e-liquid and has no basis in fact. I could just as easily point out that some US makers of liquid make it at the kitchen table where the baby just threw up prior to mixing the next batch of liquid to be sent out.

It does have basis in fact. Chinese VG killed 100 people just 4 years ago. The last time anyone died from American made VG was seventy years prior to that.

 

[wv2win]

It does have basis in fact. Chinese VG killed 100 people just 4 years ago. The last time anyone died from American made VG was seventy years prior to that.

I don't believe they died from vaping VG eliquid. Secondly, out of the hundreds of thousands of people who have or do vape, there have been no reported health issues and a good 90% of the market is Chinese eliquid. And since there is no over sight in the US, your suggestion that US eliquid is safer than Chinese eliquid is basically "fear mongering".

 

[cmv]

Myself and others have had tons of problems with chineese juice, I only go USA now, if you google usa e cig juice database, it will tell you which is usa....some claim USA made (but that sometimes that just means its "made in the US" it doesnt mean the nic/pv/vg is FROM the US. Ive tried a few but LOVE Halo juice....I cant wait till they make new fruity flavors!!

 

[randyith]

I am planing on opening an online e-juice store in a few months. I plan to offer top quality but realize price does matter. I have concluded the following so far regarding USA verse China supply:

PG/VG:
Get the highest quality since the majority of your juice is PG or VG. You definitely want US made with USP on label. You cannot get PG/VG from China that honestly print USP on the container label. Even some USA chemical companies advertise USP but when the container arrives it has no USP on label and the certified analysis does not meet USP. Conclusion: Buy PG/VG in 5 gallon or 30 gallon pails from a local US Chemical Distributor and pick it up at their dock. Liquid is heavy and shipment costs from China make them uncompetitive. Doing the right thing is also the least expensive.

Pure Nicotine Liquid: Frankly, I have not been able to locate a USA chemical manufacturer. I have located a USA distributor that claim their nicotine juice is made in USA but their price is 550% more than the most expensive Chinese manufacturer I have received quotes from over 20 of them and ordered a one liter bottle of 998 mg nicotine from two of them. One shipment received, diluted, vaped and samples sent to USA lab for exhaustive testing. This particular Chinese manufacturer's pure nicotine juice is excellent, no taste, slight yellow tint, and the US lab results showed it to be of excellent quality with any impurities well within USA limits. Lab results showed it to be 99.9% pure or 999 mg. When buying pure nicotine you have to worrying about the ....nic level which all have. Second 1 liter bottle held up in US customs for 2 weeks so far. Conclusion: You have to locate an honest Chinese supplier and use the if you plan to be competitive.

Flavor Concentrate: I am still investigating this. I have ordered about 200 flavors from US and Europe, mixed and vaped. Some have an aftertaste and I will not be using them. Order 28 flavors from 3 different Chinese manufacturers. The same 28 from each. One company's flavors sucked (aftertaste and leaking bottles). The second was good and the third is outstanding and appears to beat US suppliers. Plus the excellent Chinese supplier sells one liter bottle of concentrate for $75 each. Crunch those numbers. Frankly, I am presently figuring out which of these flavor concentrates I will have a US lab test for safety and impurities. Conclusion: Until I get those lab results back all I can say is I have found a particular Chinese flavor concentrate manufacturer whose flavors taste truly outstanding.

 

[jlarsen]

I don't believe they died from vaping VG eliquid. Secondly, out of the hundreds of thousands of people who have or do vape, there have been no reported health issues and a good 90% of the market is Chinese eliquid. And since there is no over sight in the US, your suggestion that US eliquid is safer than Chinese eliquid is basically "fear mongering".

No, they didn't die from vaping chinese VG, they died from brushing their teeth with toothpaste made from chinese VG. Chinese eliquid is made from chinese VG, US mixed eliquids are not.

Your claim that 90% of market is chinese eliquid is global, in the US it is bound to be much lower.

Being wary of chinese made products which have been tainted and have been killing people worldwide for the past decade is not "fear mongering", it is just the truth.

 

[Bunker Boy]

Is it correct to assume that the 555 I get from Vendor A will be different (even if only slightly) from that I'd get from Vendor B?

A related question would be, what percentage of vendors create their own juices, as opposed to getting them from a master supplier?

 

[swedishfish]

Is it correct to assume that the 555 I get from Vendor A will be different (even if only slightly) from that I'd get from Vendor B?

A related question would be, what percentage of vendors create their own juices, as opposed to getting them from a master supplier?

Yes, 555 from different vendors will taste differently.

Vendors that create their own juices usually say so on their website.

 

[CobraInDaNight]

gourmet vapor in the U.S.A great juice i dont buy from anyone else and ive tried a few other but i always go back to their cherry i just love it

 

[ElProximo]

This is just pure "bias" on the quality and safety of Chinese e-liquid and has no basis in fact. I could just as easily point out that some US makers of liquid make it at the kitchen table where the baby just threw up prior to mixing the next batch of liquid to be sent out.

Yes and there is every possibility a rogue amateur in the USA or Canada is (as you describe) making e-juice in the kitchen in a sense totally unregulated and with not much 'penalty' for acting fast and loose with quality.
Compare to China where machine-gun toting police might have a very terrible fate for those caught selling bad e-juice overseas.

One thing people need to keep in mind with these 'bad product scandals' is that you are also talking about a country producing MASSIVE amounts of products FOR THE WORLD.
There are 1.4 Billion people and I've seen 'industrial neighbourhoods' which are (not exaggerating) larger than most mid-sized American CITIES in total!
But the point here is that obviously you are going to hear more manufacturing scandals from the country doing the massive amounts of manufacturing!
Right, you keep hearing Chinas name mentioned and not Portugal or Denmark. Well right. Because chances are its made in China.

Anyways, believe me I'm not making some kind of big defense of China. Let me tell you I KNOW all about receiving counterfeit products from China. I once found counterfeit e-cigs!
However,
Again, IF you are talking about government licensed manufacturers then they WILL have very strict standards and remember their people don't get put in Martha Stewart jails. In fact, they can end up getting shot in the back of the head depending on the crime.
Compare to a dodgy USA 21 year old home-made e-juice maker with a snazzy website may never even have to worry about newspaper headlines "Ohio caught making fake e-Juice!".

Okay end rant heheh.. I dunno but Smoore does put their quality control papers on their website and I haven't died from their e-juice.
WEll not yet :O

 

[dspin]

Thats exactly right, ALL the dead pets - enough said

There's also nothing to prevent a Chinese mom-and-pop operation from doing the same. At least an amateur here in the U.S. is far more likely to be getting USP grade components, as they are readily available at local pharmacies and grocery stores.

Specifically, which importers, distributors, vendors, etc. sell juice produced by Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd?

If you don't believe that China has a reputation for poisoning consumers internationally, tell it to the 100 dead Panamanians that died brushing their teeth, dead Korean babies that died drinking formula, dead U.S. dogs and cats that died eating pet foods, and sick Americans that were poisoned by their drywall.

If you know of a recent event where 100 or more people died because an American VG manufacturer switched DEG for VG, I'm all ears.

 

[jlarsen]

Thats exactly right, ALL the dead pets - enough said

and the US children that ended up in a coma with brain damage from the date rape drugs their aqua dots were laced with...