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Ethanol as an alternative to PG and VG

Discussion in 'Experiments With Equipment' started by kinabaloo, May 14, 2009.

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  1. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sorry folks - false alarm. Seems residual VG was the cause of the fog.

    It odes vape ok, but next to no fog is produced, sadly.

    Shows that juice is not easy to wash out at least.

    Good for stealth vaping anyway. And makes me wonder how much I really need the fog effect.

    :oops:


    --------------------------------------------------------------


    I just came across a post by Kate in August last year who tried vaping just a flavoring that was alcohol based (http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/2205-vegetable-glycerine-glycerol-safety-discussion-3.html#post34221). Kate reported that some fog was produced which I was a little surprised by. Not very surprised as PG and VG are both types of alcohol, though longer chain. Surprised that an obviously safe base seems to have been rather overlooked.

    So I tried it - and yes it does indeed produce fog, similar in volume and lastingness to PG. This despite the probably quite high percentage of water in this flavoring.

    The juice I used was DrOetker/Supercook Lemon (mostly ethanol, some water and flavoring).

    I did not find any overheating issue as mentioned by Kate; indeed, ethanol based juice would be expected to vaporise at a lower temperature. It might even be possible to run the atomizer at a lower power. At present, the ethanol-based juice tends to continue heating for a fraction of a second after power cut-off.

    A potential downside though is that an ethanol-based juice can evaporate more readily at room temperature. I have been testing by dripping; not sure if an ethanol-based juice would be too thin to wick well from a cart; I haven't tried that yet.

    I think this is definetely worth more investigaton. At the least, it suggests that we can increase the proportion of ethanol while reducing the proportion of PG and/or VG. At most, there might be a way here to avoid the decomposition of VG and the allergy issue of PG.

    PG: C3H8O2 BP 188C
    Ethanol C2H6O BP 78C
     
  2. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    It needs Kate to come in on that idea Kinaba.
     
  3. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Indeed, I have already sent a PM.
     
  4. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    Thanks for the message Kin.

    I'd forgotten about trying this out but I'm afraid that I can't help much. It was ages ago that I tried vaping an alcohol based vanilla flavouring and I don't think you could really rely on my findings. I might not have persisted long enough to get residue of propylene glycol from the wick of the atomicer (that's my new word ;)). I didn't measure temperature either, it was a subjective impression.

    This is certainly worth looking into in my view, the more options for base ingredients of eliquid the better. The only others that I've heard of that make vapour are propylene glycol, glycerine and PEG400.
     
  5. chief druid

    chief druid Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2009
    north wales U.K.
    i mixed some dr oetker food flavouring with some niquid .. not good and it made an atomiser useless ... i binned it .. .......n orange exctract grrr .. .why i oughta ....
     
  6. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    The vanilla flavoring I have is the natural extract one and is more water than ethanol, hence trying the lemon.

    I used up normal juice from the metal wadding first.

    This also suggests that is worth considering other alcohols too and not be restricted to just those first identified as useful for dance/stage fog machines.
     
  7. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    Well I am too scared to risk any of my 'Atomicers' ....lol.......testing is all down to you kinaba.!!
     
  8. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    There are only a few of these flavorings that are mostly ethanol (and no oil).

    This is an experimental discussion thead, not a DIY juice tip.
     
  9. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
  10. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Pete - glad to hear it's still going strong - 11 days now ? Have you come up with a snazzy name for your mod yet ?
     
  11. rejoice

    rejoice Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 30, 2008
    USA KY
    Kate , did it taste like vanilla?
     
  12. chief druid

    chief druid Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2009
    north wales U.K.
    have i just been told off????? .... sniff sniff ...goes to sulk in the corner
     
  13. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK

    I didn't give it a long enough try to get used to the flavour Rejoice. It was subtle but my tastebuds weren't great at the time so I can't really give a good opinion. Sorry.
     
  14. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Not at all; it's just that those which are mostly water will not work well.
     
  15. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sorry folks - false alarm. Seems residual VG was the cause of the fog.

    It does vape ok, but next to no fog is produced, sadly.

    Shows that juice is not easy to wash out at least.

    Good for stealth vaping anyway. And makes me wonder how much I really need the fog effect.

    :oops:
     
  16. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    I am really nervous about saying anything about my atomizer now kinaba....yes it's still going just as good as new. :) ......

    lol my mods already got a name.....unless I call it 'cool' heat...hmmm.
     
  17. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    lol .......group hug time .:)
     
  18. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    It's me hiding in the corner now ;)
     
  19. rejoice

    rejoice Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 30, 2008
    USA KY
    Too bad it did not work. Would have loved another alternative.
     
  20. kinabaloo

    kinabaloo Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Yes, a pity.

    But on a positive note, will be looking at PEG-400 and similar soon.
     
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