EU EU update

[Anjaffm]

thank you, Orb Skewer!

... shared with my German home forum ...

 

[tommy2bad]

LOL at Anjaffm , I had the exact same exchange with Paul Murphys boss here in Ireland, Joe Higgins. Paul is in the socialist party and got his job when the sitting mep took up a parliament seat at home. Paul never ran for election, he's a sub!
In fairness Joe took what I said on board and admitted that it was the first he had heard about ecigs, the TPD and the lobbying. He promised to pass any documentation I sent him on to Paul and since then Paul has kept his mouth shut about ecigs being part of the tobacco lobby. In fact he has been carefully to not make the connection in any speeches he gave since. Hasn't withdrawn the original either but hey ho, cant get everything.

I think the group that came up with the press release Paul read from and signed off on are the ones responsible for the terrible document. It all goes to show how little effort politicians put into knowing what their taking about, they just repeat the quick notes handed to them by their advisers who most of the time have an agenda of their own.

 

[Anjaffm]

@tommy2bad:

Thank you very much indeed for taking that point up with that guy's office.
That "statement" was pure, unadulterated BS - and a big huge gigantic insult to any citizen who .. oh wonder! .. declines to be ruled by those who have not idea WTH they are talking about.
I have been insulted in my life before.. yeah.. sure.. but not like that!

@Julie W:
Well, I was not ranting at you, hun.
I was ranting at the big huge gigantic insult and stupidity and arrogance at that (insert very very negative noun) who published that horrible piece of filth.
If you wish, do insert the link again. So that those who do not know yet what we are up against .. can get an idea. Of the stupidity, arrogance and general attitude of those who think that they can rule the stupid masses like so many pieces of cattle.

(.. drinks another sip of spiced red wine.... vapes.... feels blood pressure decrease to normal level again.... )

......
and actually, THIS HERE is the most important piece of news:

Frédérique Ries' parliamentary assistant sent this to her followers this afternoon (English translation of original French)

Frédérique Ries thanks you for your many messages.

For over a year now, she has appreciated answering you about the evolving legal status of electronic cigarettes within the broader context of the revision of the European directive on tobacco products.
Reasons beyond her control prevent her writing to you right now. She has therefore asked me to deal with the most urgent issues and to answer your legitimate questions about the agreement on the tobacco products directive reached Monday evening and endorsed Wednesday morning by representatives of the 28 Health Ministers.
As I said yesterday morning to interested journalists, there are three observations to be made following this agreement on which Frédérique Ries abstained on behalf of her political group:
1. And this is the most important, 80% of the directive goes in the right direction, that of public health and of tobacco prevention amongst the young. This policy will achieved through new rules on health warnings now to appear on 65% of the surface of the packets or by a ban on characterizing flavours to make smoking less attractive to young people (menthol cigarettes have obtained a lease of life and their ban is planned for July 2020). Clearly (and it will soon be the rule throughout the European Union) a conventional cigarette must taste and have the colour of tobacco.
2. Regarding the electronic cigarette with nicotine, it is clear that the agreement between the delegation of the European Parliament and the representatives of the Member States is characterized by a lot of vagueness. This is evidenced by the fact that member states retain discretion to consider it as a consumer product (which is the pragmatic position of France and the countries of southern Europe), or as a medicine sold over the counter (the option chosen by the British), or as a strictly controlled medicine sold exclusively in pharmacies (the Belgian authorities are on this hard line).
This à la carte treatment also applies to flavourings, left to the discretion of the member states; some will allow them and others will prohibit them, instead of the European Parliament’s clearer and more liberal position in voting to allow flavours in the electronic cigarette throughout Europe.
3. As for the rest, there nonetheless has been visible progress: a threshold of 20 mg nicotine / ml which corresponds to a good "dose" for a steady smoker and a size of e-liquid bottles of 10 ml which is the model most commonly sold in shops . Last but not least, the constant vigilance of Frédérique Ries and of the British MEP Martin Callanan has at least saved refillable e-cigarettes, i.e. 80% of the products sold in Europe, from being banned.
But it is true that the overall philosophy remains unchanged: the electronic cigarette remains in the “firing line” of the European Commission and of many European Health Ministers. Their obsession to apply the precautionary principle remains an enigma to me (they never answered questions from MEPs asking them to present their scientific evidence, or proof of any incident or accident due to improper use of the product that might have been reported to them).
An unpleasant, almost guilty stubbornness!
Hence ultimately the only question that has to be asked at this late stage of the legislative process: should we accept the compromise currently on the table or remove Article 18 on the electronic cigarette from the Tobacco Directive (with a legal volte-face yet to be discovered)?
I do not have the answer; I encourage you to consult amongst yourselves so that together we can find the right solution. We have 2 months to do so before the final vote in plenary session on the whole of the Directive, due at the earliest on 25 February 2014 .

Regards,
Patrice Audibert
parliamentary assistant to Frédérique Ries

 

[LaraC]

Excellent defense of ecigs and excoriation of Art. 18 by a member of Parliament.

Transcript of Viscount Ridley’s debate on e cigs in the House of Lords – how it should be done! | Save e-cigs

I loved that, Ania !!

A person named "Dan" posted a great comment following Viscount Ridley's speech.

Dan wrote:

"I think I may have a new hero in Viscount Ridley – it’s so great to hear real sense being talked.

I’ve heard people talking about vaping having to go underground. Illegal vaping clubs starting up. It sounds so ridiculous for something that is such as safe activity. A bit like underground salad eating for vegetarians.

It also seems strange considering that the govt is worried about kids taking it up and in doing so giving it an air of danger and risk that it really shouldn’t have. Most kids aren’t interested in vaping because it’s safe and boring the same way you don’t see many people knitting behind the bike sheds."

OMG, I'm still laughing at Dan's dry wit (the sentences I put in bold.)

 

[Orb Skewer]

What's more astonishing is the fact that Lord Matt Ridley has never smoked, and has only tried 'one of those vapering things' once-but he totally 'gets it', and yes, he is a real Lord with peerage.

More from Viscount Ridley

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/don't-discourage-vaping.aspx

 

[AgentAnia]

I loved ....Dan wrote:

"I think I may have a new hero in Viscount Ridley – it’s so great to hear real sense being talked.

I’ve heard people talking about vaping having to go underground. Illegal vaping clubs starting up. It sounds so ridiculous for something that is such as safe activity. A bit like underground salad eating for vegetarians.

It also seems strange considering that the govt is worried about kids taking it up and in doing so giving it an air of danger and risk that it really shouldn’t have. Most kids aren’t interested in vaping because it’s safe and boring the same way you don’t see many people knitting behind the bike sheds."

OMG, I'm still laughing at Dan's dry wit (the sentences I put in bold.)

First deep, long bellylaugh of the day. Thanks, Dan, whoever you are, and thanks for posting, LauraC!

 

[jhelliwell]

What's more astonishing is the fact that Lord Matt Ridley has never smoked, and has only tried 'one of those vapering things' once-but he totally 'gets it', and yes, he is a real Lord with peerage.

OMG that was an awesome read. He totally gets it. Nice

 

[Steamix]

Prohibition times .... vape-easy instead of speakeasy. Nicbase sold on the black market with dubious - if any - quality control.

It never ceases to amaze me that polticians are only too willing to repeat the same mistakes over and over. Just read up on the Prohibition way back in the USA. People weren't inclined to stop drinking booze, very much like we aren't inclined at all to stop vaping.
Results : organized crime owned the place and raked in cash by the truckload. Prohition went away eventually, but the mobsters stayed put. And they don't care whether they're peddling dope, humans or little bottles with nicbase. All that matters is the profit.

In that respect they aren't much different from BT or BP : All that matters is the profit.

There is a little ugly catch though:

BT and BP stands to loose 'only' money. Those who are gotten off their hooks stand to loose health and increased life expectancy.
Pretty high stakes...

 

[Uma]

Prohibition times .... vape-easy instead of speakeasy. Nicbase sold on the black market with dubious - if any - quality control.

It never ceases to amaze me that polticians are only too willing to repeat the same mistakes over and over. Just read up on the Prohibition way back in the USA. People weren't inclined to stop drinking booze, very much like we aren't inclined at all to stop vaping.
Results : organized crime owned the place and raked in cash by the truckload. Prohition went away eventually, but the mobsters stayed put. And they don't care whether they're peddling dope, humans or little bottles with nicbase. All that matters is the profit.

In that respect they aren't much different from BT or BP : All that matters is the profit.

There is a little ugly catch though:

BT and BP stands to loose 'only' money. Those who are gotten off their hooks stand to loose health and increased life expectancy.
Pretty high stakes...

Another sad angle are the new news reports sharing how upset the officials are over people/minors switching over to legalized herbs instead of purchasing the hardcore CIA special forces goodies. Well, the CIA part was mine, but the hardcore was theirs.
We Safer Alternative people are turning the whole world upside down.
This perhaps is too sensitive an issue to talk about here on ECF, so please don't comment about what I said. Just research the news, like yahoo. Also research the rumors about gov invovement with such things.

 

[LaraC]

What's more astonishing is the fact that Lord Matt Ridley has never smoked, and has only tried 'one of those vapering things' once-but he totally 'gets it', and yes, he is a real Lord with peerage.

More from Viscount Ridley

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/don't-discourage-vaping.aspx

Thanks for that link, Orb !! What a smart, sensible man Matt Ridley is ! And he writes just as clearly and wonderfully as he thinks.

 

[Anjaffm]

I have a new hero! Viscount Ridley totally gets it!

Love the "vapeasy" and the "underground salad eating for vegetarians" by the way. So true!

 

[Julie W]

[QUOTE=Anjaffm
@Julie W:
Well, I was not ranting at you, hun.
I was ranting at the big huge gigantic insult and stupidity and arrogance at that (insert very very negative noun) who published that horrible piece of filth.
If you wish, do insert the link again. So that those who do not know yet what we are up against .. can get an idea. Of the stupidity, arrogance and general attitude of those who think that they can rule the stupid masses like so many pieces of cattle.

*Julie opens mouth & attempts to remove foot *

I just read it as pretty "damning" for BT but then I'm guilty of not concentrating whilst reading the article,information overload!(note to self...do not attempt any research whilst blood pressure is rising)

Guess I better not apply for a political analyst position any time soon then
(& now cant find the damn thing

 

[Orb Skewer]

Caution::Contains piss boiling Content

EuroparlTV video: Smoking laws: Radical change or a chance gone up in smoke?

 

[Anjaffm]

@Orb Skewer:
no thanks.. I watched that crap already... almost lost my lunch.... ewwwwww......
But thank you for the link

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Quit or die lives on, they just refuse to understand that many of us don't want to stop using nicotine. They want to control our lives in every way they.

OMG dual use and kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Now I feel better

 

[AgentAnia]

In a rush here, no time to see if this has already been posted, so here it is, an excellent explanation of why 20ml e-liquid is NOT equivalent to a pack of cigs, as EU Commission seems to believe:

http://mattgluggles.blogspot.com/2013/12/nicotine-equivalence-why-20mg-in-ecigs.html

 

[Orb Skewer]

In a rush ?, hot date?, many happy returns Birthday gal !

 

[AgentAnia]

From Matt Gluggle's blog: http://www.mattgluggles.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-catalogue-of-errors-behind-article.html

 

[Uma]

Good find! Dr. Farsalinos also mentioned that it takes 30 minutes of vaping to equal 1 cigarette. (Don't we know that! Especially the first year of vaping). Presenting to the FDA real evidence about e-cigarettes US regulators and advocates showing the road to the Europeans

 

[AgentAnia]

***breaking*** This just in: