Evolv-ing Thread

Steamer861

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Wish they would come out with TI fused claptons in that price range, I'd hang up my drill......

Forget about Price Range! It would be nice if any one would even Make/Offer for sale Pre Clapton'ed Ti wire. IMO we are a small group! (Ti Clapton users)
 

BillW50

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The company Contact Us info:
United States — Kanthal
I spent a few hours at looking at SEM (scanning electron microscope) images of a sliced Kanthal wire. Some show two layers and some show three. But none of them had any energy dispersive spectroscopy data. That is what I was looking for since that would tell you the exact composition of each layer.

Oh and about the Kanthal company. I seriously doubt they own any SEM let alone any energy dispersive spectroscopy detectors. If they even bothered, they probably just send test samples to a lab that can do it. And if they have any of this data, I'm sure they won't share it with the public. :(
 
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cigatron

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I spent a few hours at looking at SEM (scanning electron microscope) images of a sliced Kanthal wire. Some show two layers and some show three. But none of them had any energy dispersive spectroscopy data. That is what I was looking for since that would tell you the exact composition of each layer.

Oh and about the Kanthal company. I seriously doubt they own any SEM let alone any energy dispersive spectroscopy detectors. If they even bothered, they probably just send test samples to a lab that can do it. And if they have any of this data, I'm sure they won't share it with the public. :(

Perhaps the layers you noticed were varying densities created during the wire forming process?
 

BillW50

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Perhaps the layers you noticed were varying densities created during the wire forming process?
To be honest, I had no idea what the layers were and no way was I going to claim they were iron, chromium, and aluminium. I think they were something else. I think the top layer was maybe aluminum oxide, The second layer I have no idea and that is the one I really wanted to know what it was. The third was probably iron for sure and could be chromium, and aluminium also mixed into an alloy.
 

cigatron

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To be honest, I had no idea what the layers were and no way was I going to claim they were iron, chromium, and aluminium. I think they were something else. I think the top layer was maybe aluminum oxide, The second layer I have no idea and that is the one I really wanted to know what it was. The third was probably iron for sure and could be chromium, and aluminium also mixed into an alloy.
Can you post the image?
 

BillW50

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Can you post the image?
I've been looking for them again since classwife posted. I checked my history in this browser and I don't think I used anything except Firefox for this. I looked for images in StartPage first, then Bing, and then Google. Although StartPage uses Google as their search engine, so they are almost the same.

Seems like anything to do with "SEM Kanthal" is mostly about the study of corrosion effects of Kanthal. And that is mostly images of corrosion itself. Out of like over 100 SEM images I saw today, only two were useful and now I can't find them again. Yeah I should have grabbed them, but I thought I would find something better. You would think all of this Kanthal corrosion stuff, talk about rusting would come up. But very little information on the net about this either.

This is one that was sort of interesting. But it is the mostly about the surface of Kanthal.
Fig. 5. SEM micrograph showing representative measurements taken on an...

I am pretty sure the two that I am looking for is probably somewhere in researchgate.net. As my history shows I have been here many times today.
 

tiburonfirst

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a 'hidden network' showed up last evening, disappeared and is back again this morning :?: how can i find out where this is coming from? i'm more than puzzled - i'm on 20 acres, a couple hundred feet off the road and neighbors. :?: and how do you 'hide' a network?
 
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dwcraig1

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a 'hidden network' showed up last evening, disappeared and is back again this morning :?: how can i find out where this is coming from? i'm more than puzzled - i'm on 20 acres, a couple hundred feet off the road and neighbors. :?: and how do you 'hide' a network?
Most likely that is just the name they put in, mine is called VirusRus. I'm trying to scare them away...LOL
Or it is one where the name is not broadcast, one would need the name and the passphrase to connect to it.
 

cigatron

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This is one that was sort of interesting. But it is the mostly about the surface of Kanthal.
Fig. 5. SEM micrograph showing representative measurements taken on an..

Very cool looking image of the outer surface layers of Alumina on kanthal. Only a few microns thick.I believe the image represents FeCrAlY, which is a kanthal alloy containing Yttrium. That's the same alloy that my father's scientist friend was working with at NASA.
All of the micrography images of kanthal alumina that I found during my research were if the outer surface oxidation layers only. That's where the focus of all research is, to determine the crystalline structure and density; particularly for the purpose of developing higher heat resistant and/or electrically insulative coatings. So far nothing has led me to believe that the elements comprising a kanthal alloy metal change during an oxidation event at more than a few microns deep from the surface.
 
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cigatron

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Why doesn't Kanthal rust until the center is exposed?

A raw unfired piece of kanthal would be more prone to iron oxide (rust) development because no alumina has been developed on the surface. I say no "no alumina" which is really not accurate because aluminum oxide begins to form on the outer surface of aluminum immediately when exposed to oxygen. That's the reason aluminum is so hard to get paint to stick.
Once a thick layer of Alumina forms on the outer wire surface through repeated heating cycles the alumina constitutes most of the molecular make up of the wire surface so the iron molecules beneath it are not being exposed to much oxygen. Not enough to cause visible rust development.
Now, if you slice into your wire, essentially cutting off the outer alumina layer and expose it to air and/or water I can see that it would rust more rapidly.
You can run an experiment by placing three kanthal coils in water; the first coil being unfired, the second coil having been fired 15-20 times and the third having been fired 15-20 times and then having been sanded or sliced through the outer wire surface. My guess is that the development of rust will be minimal on the second sample and more prevalent and identical on the first and third coil samples.
 
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awsum140

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Tibs, the "hidden" network is appearing and disappearing due to the way radio waves propagate. Sometimes conditions are just right for you to be able to see them, maybe a car going by reflecting the signal, or the way tree branches are moving in the wind. Tons of variables effect this.

I use a program called "Net Surveyor" and it shows networks as far away as almost a half mile. The signal levels are far below anything useful, but the networks can be seen. Sometimes they are there, sometimes not, again depending on the specific signal conditions when I look for networks. I can always see the neighbors networks on both sides and across the street, easily a few hundred feet, and usually see the one two houses away. I wouldn't be concerned, you don't have a nefarious Russian spy in the area.
 

tiburonfirst

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thanks, awsum! yup, apparently reach has increased over the years:
A general rule of thumb in home networking says that WiFi routers operating on the traditional 2.4 GHz band reach up to 150 feet (46 m) indoors and 300 feet (92 m) outdoors. Older 802.11a routers that ran on 5 GHz bands reached approximately one-third of these distances. Newer 802.11n and 802.11ac routers that operate on both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands vary in the reach similarly.

so, it could very well be one of my 'neighbors' ;) but sitting alone here on 20 acres it concerned me to some degree. but then the idea of somebody in the woods with a smart phone and their hotspot turned on seemed rather outlandish ;)
 

awsum140

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I can "see" the "free public", unsecured, Comtrash WiFi at a convenience store almost a half mile away most of the time on the 5ghz band. If I ever get a higher end WiFi dongle that takes an external antenna I could easily connect to that for free.
 

Rossum

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a 'hidden network' showed up last evening, disappeared and is back again this morning :?: how can i find out where this is coming from? i'm more than puzzled - i'm on 20 acres, a couple hundred feet off the road and neighbors.
but where is that network coming from?
What kind of cell phone do you have? If Android, get this, and go for a walkabout.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer&hl=en_US
 

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