Evolv sues Joyetech over VW technology !
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This is hearsay but I will post it.
Joyetech – They Aren’t the E-Cigarette Manufacturer You Think They Are!
Joyetech – They Aren’t the E-Cigarette Manufacturer You Think They Are!
The mentions in the filing pertains to Joyetech having availed themselves of using that branch of the courts for filing previous suits on behalf of Joyetech as the plaintiff. There is also the establishment of the US arm of Joyetech being based in jurisdiction of the applicant court:
This Court has personal jurisdiction over Joyetech USA because it is incorporated in California and conducted business within California, conducts its principal operations in Orange County, California, and commits acts of infringement in violation of 35 U.S.C. §271, by using, importing, offering to sell,and selling electronic vaporizers to distributors and consumers, in this judicial district.
The court in question - the CDCA - falls under the purview of the US Ninth Circuit.So we have two claims - one that JT has been sued over the eGo, and one that JT has sued someone for unspecified reason.
Perhaps Joyetech counter sued.
I remember the original article about Joyetech stealing designs from Ovale and Janty. I know Ovale claimed creation of the eGo-T and Joyetech claimed it as theirs.
I find it highly suspicious that Ovale sells Joyetech branded items on their site.
From the Ovale site:
The way they say "We released" instead of created seems odd.
Phil Busardo has that video up of the two Joyetech guys, one who created the 510 and the other the Ego or something to that effect. I wonder if those guys were originally employed by Janty and Ovale.
I think with a bit of digging one could kick over a rock or two about Joyetech doing dirty deeds.
I remember the original article about Joyetech stealing designs from Ovale and Janty. I know Ovale claimed creation of the eGo-T and Joyetech claimed it as theirs.
I find it highly suspicious that Ovale sells Joyetech branded items on their site.
From the Ovale site:
The way they say "We released" instead of created seems odd.
Phil Busardo has that video up of the two Joyetech guys, one who created the 510 and the other the Ego or something to that effect. I wonder if those guys were originally employed by Janty and Ovale.
I think with a bit of digging one could kick over a rock or two about Joyetech doing dirty deeds.
If this lawsuit goes anywhere Evolv will have all the dirty laundry aired soon enough.
Yes yes yes!!! I forgot about Janty. With all the players involved...Ovale, Janty & Joyetech....it was all shady but interestingly enough sounds (in a way) like the fight JT is having with Evolv now.
!!! G*NOTE FIVE !!!
Cost when smoking for me was under $5/day. Cigs 3.30/pack 1 yr ago.
Many spend more than that on juice every day.
Not to mention, there really are those who can't afford a $100+ mod, plus atty, plus coils, plus juice, plus batteries, plus charger......they may spend more per month/year what have you, on smokes....but it is spread out in small increments, and in order to stay off the smokes...they need all the stuff at once, or they will just keep smoking, and there by unable to save that money up for the higher priced stuff. I am in that boat myself....unemployed vet., I tried the ego pens......and while affordable, they would NOT have cut it for me. I have just been really lucky with winning stuff, and getting pif'ed stuff (some amazing pif's from amazing people here at ECF), so that I now have everything I need to keep going, and cost is now down to minimal maintenance.
Yeah that's pretty much the gist of it. But hey!
And it would be awfully boring if it did.
Thankfully we have a thread full of this. Along with episodes of Questions for Karl on youtube there's hours serious entertainment to be had.
So assuming Evolv wins and ALL vw/tc-devices sold on US need to come with their chip what would be the cost of new hardware?
Would it put new vapers into position where they simply can't get a decent priced starting setup with less than 100$ not to mention the fact there would be a lot "out-of-stock"?
Not taking sides beign european (we don't get ANY fancy toys).
Would it put new vapers into position where they simply can't get a decent priced starting setup with less than 100$ not to mention the fact there would be a lot "out-of-stock"?
Not taking sides beign european (we don't get ANY fancy toys).
This keeps getting said over & over that Evolv is suing so they can control the entire market but that is NOT the case. Evolv is suing ONE competitor, that's it, no threats of suing anyone else & creating a monopoly. Evolv is upset, feels they got a raw deal so they are suing Joytech. Settle down people, the sky is not falling in on the Vape world. I don't imagine one small company with 19 employees is planning on ruining all these giant faceless corporations in the industry so they can be the sole provider of technology.
Ok, if I add "in theory if" would you care to quess?
Also in order to save their face they NEED to sue ALL not to make this look like a mad dash for cash.
Also in order to save their face they NEED to sue ALL not to make this look like a mad dash for cash.
The court order will be binding and Evolv will be able to use it to go after competitors. Whether Evolv decides to do that or not is unknown. Evolv could simply lower the price of their chips and mass produce them and make their money in volume. Evolv could drastically increase the cost of their chip since there would not be competition. Evolv could do nothing with their chip pricewise and are simply trying to squash their competition who they feel are pirating the patents. Evolv's motive is speculation at this point.
Stating this move by Evolv looks like a mad dash for cash is naïve. Under no circumstance do I see Evolv receiving a single cent from Joy Tech USA. Even a favorable judgement likely results in Joy Tech USA closing up shop and going back to China, good luck receiving your judgement from any Chinese based company. So while Evolv may or may not win this case, and we are still waiting on Joy Tech's side of the story, it is likely Evolv will never get a financial reward.
So, this seems somewhat at odds then: why file a suit seeking damages when there is (supposedly) little chance of recovery of award?
Evolv's motive, at least for this case, seems very clear: get an injunction against Joyetech to force them to remove the infringing products from the market, and financial compensation for damages incurred to Evolv. (pages 20-22 of the filing)
Because part of any civil suit is damages. In this particular case the only way I see Evolv collecting any damages is by getting a favorable judgement and a smallish financial award. For example Evolv may be able to collect a $500,000 award but has little to no shot of collecting a $50,000,000 award.
I think the biggest reason for the law suit is the way Joy Tech handled being told they were infringing on the patent in the beginning. Joy Tech practically ignored Evolv for several months before coming back to Evolv and admitting guilt.
Seeking or proving damages is a typical part of civil law suits. You must prove you were and are financially harmed in some way. This does not mean that Evolv's primary reason for the filing is financial gain. I'm sure they know any judgement will have little affect outside of the US. To be honest I'm not even sure if a favorable ruling for Evolv would hurt Joy Tech's importing RX200's or other named devices.
By the time this suit is resolved this technology is likely to be outdated anyways. I wouldn't expect a judgement ruling sooner then 12 months. It is possible some sort of injunction could come out before the case is resolved but I suspect we are still months away from that. Nothing moves fast in the courts.
Here in the cities it's still mostly ego-vv -vw type stuff mostly that
I see on the streets. Roughly 50-1 at first. Lately I have seen more
mods. They are definitely on the upswing. Box mods mostly. I have
only seen 1 tube mod in public. The rest I have seen used were in
vape shops at the taste bar. I am sure they are out there but, I don't
visit the West Bank or the First Ave scenes.
I'm assuming most of the box mods I see now days are regulated
judging by my observations. I can see why juice consumption is
trending up. Personally I see it more as a lower mileage option than
an actual need for consumption.
Regards
Mike
Actually, I believe you could file suit seeking only the injunction to stop the import and sales of infringing product. Damages are an optional part of the suit but are generally asked for as a means of collecting money to cover the costs of filing the suit.
I'm not going along with the "Joyetech admitted guilt" argument as it's stated in the filing. Asking about what licensing fees would be is not the same as admitting guilt - that's an inference being drawn, and that's only what Evolv is saying about the incident.
But you're right that it will be a while before we see any outcome from this suit, unless there is a settlement before it ever hits trial. Time will tell.
Of course you don't have to, but doing so is supporting of the need for an injunction. Why would you be granted an injunction if no financial harm is being done?
You don't have to. I have repeatedly stated I would like to see Joy Tech's response. I've even asked if any members have read it or could direct me to it. No one has. So I'm left to form my current opinion based on the filing I have read, and it certainly implies Joy Tech admitted guilt and tried to purchase a licensing agreement AFTER their devices were proved successful. If the named devices had not been successful would have Joy Tech later offered to buy a licensing agreement? I doubt it.
Until Joy Tech responds all we have is Evolv's side of the argument to base our opinion on.
From Evolv's filing I suspect they do not want to settle. They could have settled with Joy Tech when Joy Tech came calling in early March offering to then buy a license. This is the primary reason I suspect Evolv is after an injunction more then a financial reward. Joy Tech could have offered them a royalty and damages for past infringement, surly an agreement could have been worked out. Evolv rejected that and the only logical reason is because they don't want the money they want production of the "knock offs" halted.
Evolve wins and then the FDA bans all devices over 30 watts?
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