I'm not buying much of the FDA hype either, especially regarding devices. I suspect that at some point the FDA will crash the juice market though by regulating the contents of juice. After all that is the great unknown with vaping and long term health affects. Do the "artificial flavors" being inhaled harm you over time?
Evolv sues Joyetech over VW technology !
- Thread starter Mazinny
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I'm not buying much of the FDA hype either, especially regarding devices. I suspect that at some point the FDA will crash the juice market though by regulating the contents of juice. After all that is the great unknown with vaping and long term health affects. Do the "artificial flavors" being inhaled harm you over time?
Perhaps, but patents have been issued - for example that is what this thread is about.
I think at some point there may be some type of restrictions on mechanical mods, and some guidelines on regulated devices, but by and large I think the devices will be left alone and we will not see a ban on the federal level.
The easiest and most logical way for the government to regulate vaping will be with the juice or any part of the juice. Regulate and tax the heck out of nicotine. Limit or outright ban flavorings. Juice is the great unknown.
Evolv wins but by then, all FDA Allowed e-Cigarettes must have Non-Adjustable TC?
Thank God this forum has so many doctors, lawyers and engineers.
I never have to seek advice from an outside professional ever again.
I never have to seek advice from an outside professional ever again.
If all FDA approved devices ultimately required TC (under the guise of safety concerns) and Evolv has successfully enforced their patent, this could be a windfall.
No worries here. I have enough VW devices to last me till I die and have several mechs as well.
I even have spare boards for my little Kbox mini's.
And being an electronics tech...
I will not pay over $50 for a mod.
I even have spare boards for my little Kbox mini's.
And being an electronics tech...
I will not pay over $50 for a mod.
I keep seeing "Joyetech admitted fault"....I didn't see that. I did see them ask how much Evolv wanted, but that is not the same thing as admitting fault. It could have been a "how much do you want to go away?" To which Evolv refused to sell licensing.......
Well, Vaping is in its 11th year...........we will see.
Yes, 11th, the USA was a bit Slow in getting involved.
Agreed asking how much evolv wanted for a licence is not an admission of guilt if anything it was a sign joyetech were prepared to discuss options which evolv clearly were not. The more people I talk too in the legal and business areas the more this seems a big gamble, although a couple of lawyers said that in the US sometimes US company's get an unfair bias from some courts given both of those lawyers have done patent & copyright cases in the US I'll have to take their word for it. An engineer friend has stripped down an rx200 and a cuboid as well as his reuleaux dna200 and gone over them and said he didn't see any similarity in physical means including power circuitry. I'm the wrong one to try and word him as I understood none of the equipment he used or the many long winded terms but he was absolute in the opinion that physically there was no case but there might be in software terms as he is not into that on a good enough level to form an opinion. I do believe evolv has a reason for this beyond the "controlling the industry" belief and personally I think they know something about the pending regulations and this case is about their position after those regs come in.
Yup. The only way this is going to change though is if the patent system is changed.
I don't think this is being driven by the VW issue. That's just the card Evolv has to play.
Chip dumping, predatory pricing, personal dislikes and a few more factors I can think of have very likely been considered by Evolv. It would be foolish not to have done that
But Evolv's suit is not about TC. Figure out a way to implement that in another way and someone else can patent it.
Use joules instead of watts maybe
That's just the usual 'twisting of the facts' in press coverage...usually a comment made by an attorney about how the defendants admitted their guilt by trying to settle...Evolv could make far more from licensing...JoyeTech may just declare bankruptcy if the court awards a large settlement and Evolv wouldn't get much If anything especially if they can't prove 'Wilful and malicious injury'. I'd go for a large settlement and then license the IP.I keep seeing "Joyetech admitted fault"....I didn't see that. I did see them ask how much Evolv wanted, but that is not the same thing as admitting fault. It could have been a "how much do you want to go away?" To which Evolv refused to sell licensing.......
Say Evolv wins this Patent Suit.
Are the Damages that can be awarded not governed (basically) by two Categories? A “Reasonable Royalty” and “Lost Profits”.
Yes, but if they can prove more, they can lock in more than just 'damages'...if Evolv wanted to they could tally that up and take the settlement IF that's all they were going for...I think they're going for more, otherwise why not just negotiate a settlement? JoyeTech knows how many they made...tally that up, subtract what's in inventory, recall all unsold units and then do the math. Reasonable per unit royalty/profit...simple damages. If Evolv's attorney(s) can prove it was 'Wilful and Malicious' (i.e. JoyeTech was fully aware that their design was a direct infringement on Evolv's IP and they intended to undercut their sales by placing them on the market, then Evolv can get a larger settlement...think of it as 'Pain and suffering' in the IP world. My two cents is Evolv wants them gone...
I tend to not read to much into the motives of either side of the case.
I personally try not to attach human attributes to abstract concepts.
Regards
mike
I personally try not to attach human attributes to abstract concepts.
Regards
mike
I'm Not an Attorney. But I have been on Both Sides of a Patent Dispute. And know that "Unlimited Damages" can Not be sought. And the concept of "Pain and Suffering" I do Not Believe can be Applied in a Patent Suit as justification for Damages.
The Reasonable Royalty part can be somewhat Straight Forward. But the Lost Profits can be Very Difficult to Quantify sometimes.
Because Joyetech will argue that Many purchased the Item because it was Made by Joyetech. And would Not have done so if the Item had been Advertised as containing an Evolv Board. Also there is the Price Differential. Joyetech will also argue that Many would Not Purchase Any Device if the Price Exceeds a certain Limit.
Look at Some of the People in this Thread who will Not Buy Mods that contain Evolv Boards.
So you Can't just tally up Every Mod that Joyetech has Sold and say that these are Profits that should have gone to Evolv.
BTW - 'Wilful and Malicious' is Lawyer speak for "they Fully Understood their Actions". As apposed to someone who made a Mistake. Or had No Notice of a Potential Infringement.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
