Experience

[FAUXPUFF]

I was just reading a thread started by a newbie in the "New Members Forum". The newbie asked a very good, valid question. A lot of people rushed in to answer the newbie, which is awesome. What is not awesome is that the first six responses were from members with a join date of "December 2010". The responses were not helpful, in my opinion. More confusing than anything, because there were multiple answers to the question, all of which were uninformed. I would have loved to chime in, but when I went back to the thread it was 12 pages long. Can we balance our need to be helpful with the restraint to let the experience of our senior members provide useful answers? Some of us got here before there was the term "throat hit". Some of us got here before mods. Before cartos, drip tips and the Ego. Thank you for listening, I hope this helps.

 

[Rockproof]

Sage advice FAUX. That said, it is often difficult though to temper the enthusiasm of the newly converted and needs of the noob like me for answers. If nothing else, multiple responses keep the thread towards the top so that veterans can answer. We all know how quickly a thread can be buried in this forum to the point of near non-existence. In minutes...literally.

 

[FAUXPUFF]

You have an excellent point, Rock. One that I did not think of. Thanks! Just browsing now, though, I saw a bunch more threads where the advice given is from newbies. I think it is a sign of enthusiasm, but I think when the "blind lead the blind" as they say, confusion can come about...

 

[SimpleSins]

I have noticed, though, that this forum has a way of making experts out of neophytes. I've seen people who have been a member for a month with almost 2,000 posts and shouting down anyone who holds a view contrary to theirs in a newbie thread. After three months you apparently know enough to tell everyone how it should be done. It wouldn't be as bad if it was expressed as an opinion, but opinion is presented as fact and unfortunately the new members don't know how to differentiate yet between enthusiasm and a recommendation borne of a variety of experiences and may be steered to a product not right for them based on who was the loudest.

 

[FAUXPUFF]

Something I just read:

"Hi all,

Now that I have my 510 PV and have used it for the day, I thought I would share some points that might be helpful."

Yes, that is a direct quote! There were 7 points listed, and numbered...

And one of the points listed:

"7) For the love of God all mighty, get a drip tip!"

 

[Zen~]

It's been a pet peeve of mine... Seeing the well intentioned but misinformed newbs rush right in to share their enthusiasm for products they have on order, but have yet to experience first hand. Best case scenario they make suggestions based on a few weeks of experience.

But this, while annoying, is unavoidable.

Smoking analogs carries with it a certain hopelessness that is miraculously lifted by the discovery that an ecig can and probably will free a person from the self imposed bondage of a smoking addiction. The excitement of this realization is downright spiritual to some people.

There should be a rule that new members are to be allowed to start threads in the new members area, but they should not be allowed to respond to threads until they have been an active member for a certain amount of time... Say, two months AND 150 posts. There are some new members that in fact ARE qualified to answer these threads, but they will "come of age" here soon enough, and at that point can contribute. It would add a LOT of value to this already excellent resource.

Just my 50th of a buck.

 

[bigsix300]

Well new to the forum doesn't always mean new to vaping though i would understand your point have seen alot of misleading posts. Well, I do hafto say people that are happy with what they got are always gonna say its the best. Also i have found that most people that start vaping ask whats the best device rather then what do you think would be the best for me and these are my requirments.

 

[Zen~]

Well new to the forum doesn't always mean new to vaping though i would understand your point have seen alot of misleading posts. Well, I do hafto say people that are happy with what they got are always gonna say its the best. Also i have found that most people that start vaping ask whats the best device rather then what do you think would be the best for me and these are my requirments.

I've seen so many folks completely ignore the newbs requirements, insisting that the newb can't possibly know what is best for themselves. How many threads have you seen that start out asking for a small, familiar analog-sized device that end up with the suggestion of "get an eGo, it's the best, no matter WHAT you think you need today.

I had a banner that said I had been vaping for 90 days, when in fact I had already owned over 60 PVs, and I was treated like I knew nothing by members new and veteran alike.

What I have proposed would have a major impact on the dynamics of this forum, for the better. Those that are new to this forum that have been at this for a while would understand the policy and be willing to mark time before being able to offer up advice.

 

[SimpleSins]

Well new to the forum doesn't always mean new to vaping though i would understand your point have seen alot of misleading posts. Well, I do hafto say people that are happy with what they got are always gonna say its the best. Also i have found that most people that start vaping ask whats the best device rather then what do you think would be the best for me and these are my requirments.

I don't think that's true. I have seen people give very specific requirements that they needed- not wanted, needed- and invariably it would be about ten posts in before anything even coming close to addressing those needs was addressed, and then that sole post would get lost in 20 more telling them to get something that had no resemblance to what the OP was looking for.

 

[pkj]

I understand your point, and I suspect I know one of the threads you are referring to. New members have every right to post. Sometimes the info they provide is right-on, sometimes I question if the answer is right-on. They are posting. They are interacting. They are responding. For the most part, I see that as a good thing.

Experienced, senior members, are going to have to jump in and gently make corrections. We can do that by carefully wording our responses and without belittling anyone or making anyone look foolish. Sometimes that may not be easy, but that is what we are going to have to do.

Respectfully,
Paula

 

[MXBNW]

I understand your point, and I suspect I know one of the threads you are referring to. New members have every right to post. Sometimes the info they provide is right-on, sometimes I question if the answer is right-on. They are posting. They are interacting. They are responding. For the most part, I see that as a good thing.

Experienced, senior members, are going to have to jump in and gently make corrections. We can do that by carefully wording our responses and without belittling anyone or making anyone look foolish. Sometimes that may not be easy, but that is what we are going to have to do.

Respectfully,
Paula

Well said Paula.

 

[Grifter]

To share and express is a human need. If I can play devil's advocate here, I think very few people would actually stick around for 2 months without being able to express themselves other than making a new thread. The most patient of people will lurk and read before making an account and would thereby increase their own time before being able to post responses, and the impatient ones will immediately make new threads for every little thing thus flooding the forum to a point where it would probably become unmanagable.

I'd like to point out too that PVs are largely unknown by most people. It certainly was for me up until very very recently. Judging from the tone of older members it seems that the amount of people who join are not doing so in a linear fashion but rather more exponentially, and maybe that is because knowledge is beginning to reach critical mass, and more information is able to better permeate society.

Anyway, trying to cap someone from posting would probably just result in a very negative feedback, the only (good) way is for older members to step in and offer guidance.

And finally, being an older member there is always the risk of seeing yourself as superior, because back when you posted and hung out it was a much smaller place, people knew eachother more intimately, and with an incredible influx of new people this convenience and sense of community is shattered. But without new people, PVs are doomed.

 

[Zen~]

I understand your point, and I suspect I know one of the threads you are referring to. New members have every right to post. Sometimes the info they provide is right-on, sometimes I question if the answer is right-on. They are posting. They are interacting. They are responding. For the most part, I see that as a good thing.

Experienced, senior members, are going to have to jump in and gently make corrections. We can do that by carefully wording our responses and without belittling anyone or making anyone look foolish. Sometimes that may not be easy, but that is what we are going to have to do.

Respectfully,
Paula

I hear what you're saying Paula, and I agree with the spirit of what you're suggesting. On the other hand, there's a certain amount of merit in imposing controls, I think. It would be BETTER if what I have proposed wasn't needed in the first place.

 

[Aaeli]

Posting threads and responses is kind've the point of an online forum isn't it? If new people can't post their experiences and can only read what more experienced people have to say, that would make this website the same as the hundred blogs on the same subject.

Personally, I feel like I am smart enough to figure out which responses are coming from those with experience and those without (like the example, "I've used this 510 for a whole day") without posting/responding limits. I've also learned a lot from others with less than 200 posts.

 

[jtpjc]

I agree with Aaeli. I believe I have something like ten posts, but that doesn't make me a newb, or stupid, or ignorant. In the previous years I've had, for example, 401's and 901's. They didn't do it for me, because of the technical imperfections. Then, after a year or so, I thought to give vaping a try again. The 808 and 510 were a big improvement. By the way, I even did video reviews on all of these. And now that I have the Riva you could even call me happy, although I still smoke. Way too much I might add, but I need less and less because they are beginning to taste dirty. Now it's the analogs that are losing their appeal.

Sorry, not quite on topic I believe, and a bit of a rant, but thanks for letting me have my say.

 

[Zen~]

Posting threads and responses is kind've the point of an online forum isn't it? If new people can't post their experiences and can only read what more experienced people have to say, that would make this website the same as the hundred blogs on the same subject.

Personally, I feel like I am smart enough to figure out which responses are coming from those with experience and those without (like the example, "I've used this 510 for a whole day") without posting/responding limits. I've also learned a lot from others with less than 200 posts.

You should read and actually comprehend my suggestion...

I said that newbs should be allowed to start threads in the beginners section and respond to their own thread, and nobody elses thread... There's a lot of interaction possible there.. But the response to a newbs question will come from people with more experience... Now tell me why that's a bad idea

Further, newbs are only in the new members section for what, 15 posts or so? After that, feel free to post anyplace they are allowed EXCEPT answering threads in the newb section until the experience level is reached.

There's nothing too draconian about this, it barely restricts interaction at all and it will only serve to improve the forum... Think it through instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that this level of control is bad...

 

[AlmightyGod]

Although I can appreciate the sentiment...
The freedoms of speech and opinion are what forums are all about...

 

[AngusATAT]

Welcome to the world of online forums.

I've ran plenty of forums in my time, and I can assure you that the only "partial" solution for this (because there is no total solution) is for the more experienced members to take the time to go in there on a regular basis and answer questions. Answers and opinions given by members with the "ECF Veteran" tag, a high post count, or even a sig banner saying that they've been smoke free for a long time really makes an impression on many new members. They see it as a sign of experience, and take those responses more seriously.

Unfortunately, if the experienced members do not take the time to wade through that forum regularly, the only people the new members will have to learn from is themselves.

 

[breaktru]

For every not so correct answer there is always several responses with a correct answer so weed through the postings and yes even new members have the right to respond.

 

[Traver]

As a newby I have given and received bad advice. Fortunately a more experience member has always stepped in and corrected it. Three months ago when I was looking to start vaping I found this board. After forty years of smoking I was pretty skeptical that e cigs would in any way get me to quit. Part of what convinced me was the enthusiasm I found on this board and that is something that comes in a large part from new members. I believe you should be really be careful not to do anything that might dampen that enthusiasm. It may be just as important to the success of this board as anything else. I know that if my posts were anymore limited at the beginning I would have gone some where else. So would a lot of other people.

With close to 50,000 members you must be doing something right.

I am new to vaping but although more of a hobbyist than an expert I have been running bulletin bulletin boards from back when you had to write you own script to get one up. So I appreciate the time and effort you guys have put into this. Thanks. really thanks you may just have saved my life.