Explain VV and the Kick to me

[roxics]

For some reason I'm having a hard time understanding how people can get 5 volts out of a 3.7 volt 18650 battery.

How is it that variable voltage works?

Second will I be able to get over 5 volts out of an 18650 AW IMR in my Silver Bullet if I put in a kick/kicksleeve?

I'm typically a 6 volt vaper using 1.25 ohm dual coil cartos. I like it hot and strong. But I do have a Ego Twist that I vape at 4.8v with a LR 306 on it. So I am interested in the 4.5-5.5 volt range. Will the kick give me that and how?

What kind of magic is at work here to make this all happen?

 

[Xaiver]

The VV bit works one of two ways. Either you have 1 battery and the unit has a booster circuit that increases the draw on the battery to give you a higher voltage (which typically require IMR batteries, because they can handle a higher draw) or you use a two battery setup and it regulates it down to what you want. The latter is more dangerous though, I don't which mods use that mode.

The kick is a different beast entirely. The circuitry in the kick controls your Wattage, and the voltage change is only a side effect. There's a chart around here somewhere....Lemme see if I can find it.

The kick only goes up to 10 watts though.

Here it is:

Anyhow, you said 1.25 ohms and 6 volts. That's 30 watts....Oops, you said dual coils. That's 15 watts. That's pretty hot, and above what most people will enjoy for a vape. If you like it though, more power to you.

The kick handles the middle number. So, you tell it that you want 9 watts and put on a 4 ohm carto (Single coil) it's going to output 6 volts. If you then take off your 4 ohm carto and put on a 2 ohm, it will change the battery output down to 4.25 volts. It's sort of a set-and-forget method of variable voltage...sort of.

 

[roxics]

Hmm pretty cool. Thanks for the explaination. I may just have to pick up a kick. I don't mind lower wattage. If I can get away with 10 watts off a 18650 pushing 5 volts to a 1.25ohm DCT that would work pretty cool for me. Plus give me the extended battery life of an 18650 IMR versus stacked RCR123A's.

 

[Xaiver]

I wouldn't hold my breath on the extended battery life part, though. The kick tends to start shutting down when the battery hits around 3.7-3.8 volts. It's the one thing about the kick that drives me nuts. I can go through 3 IMR 2000mAh batteries over the course of a day, using the kick at 8 watts with Penelope and a 3ishohm coil.

 

[roxics]

Oh that sucks. Saw a review that says it doesn't like dual coil cartos either. Sets them around 3.5 volts no matter what. That just kills the deal for me. My main vape is a DCT.

 

[Xaiver]

You know that you can buy single coil cartos to go in the tank, right? That's the way that I would have gone if I had stuck with the DCT instead of getting a rebuildable.

From what I understand though, when you're using a dual coil, each coil only gets about half the voltage. So if you're vaping a dual coil at 5 volts, what you're really doing is vaping 2 2.5 volt coils... Might sound like the same thing from a math point of view, but it's really not.

 

[roxics]

Yeah I figured to always double it, so a 1.25 dual coil carto is more like a 2.5 ohm carto. I haven't seen any single coil tank cartos for sale. I usually shop at litecig, madvapes or altsmoke. But to be honest I haven't really looked either.

 

[Xaiver]

I was going to link you to them on the madvapes site, but they are doing maintenance...
They do carry them though, I dont know of anyone else that does.

 

[AttyPops]

Um... how many amps is the kick rated for?

 

[Xaiver]

Okay, I searched high and low...well, sort of. Everywhere that they're talking about the amp rating for the Kick happens to be on the UKvapers site which is down because of the TW BS.

Anywho. Isn't that sort of what we're talking about though? Watts = Volts X Amps, right?

Side thought: If we stuck a wick and some liquid on a light-bulb coil, it would probably be nasty, huh? 100 watts seems a bit steep...nevermind the gasses in the lightbulb...

 

[Xaiver]

Okay Atty...help me out here. I get a little fuzzy when we start talking about amps.

If Watts = Volts X Amps, then Amps = Watts / Volts, right?

The kick only goes from 5 to 10 watts. On standard cartos, assuming that the lowest resistance carto you could grab is 1.2 ohms, and the highest is 6.

5/2v=2.5 10/2v=5
5/5.5=0.909090 10/5.5=1.818181

Which is to say, I don't imagine that it would have trouble on the low end, right? Did I understand that some of the LavaTubes have a 2.5amp limit on their switches?

Google has little snippets of things, and I -think- that I saw a piece saying that it might be limited to 5.4? Please don't quote me on that, google likes to mangle information in it's preview.

Edit: Changed out the resistance for Voltage to correct my calculations. They're still not that far off.

 

[Rader2146]

SQRT(10/1.2)=2.88 amps

 

[AttyPops]

Help is here: Ohm's Law Calculator

Plug in any two values and hit calculate to get all 4.

I asked because the OP said something about using DCCs. That takes more amps. For example: a dual coil carto at 1.25 ohms and 6 volts (WOW!... but that's what he claimed)... is 28.8 watts (like you said...about 30) and 4.8 amps. It would probably fry any/most devices. Putting too much power through them.

Now per coil that's 14.4 watts. I don't think he's actually getting that....he'd pop the coils. His device/battery combo must be limiting it a bit but he doesn't know it because it's hard to measure properly without the right tools/gadgets.

Anyway, probably more than the kick can handle (but that's a guess).

 

[Xaiver]

Help is here: Ohm's Law Calculator

Plug in any two values and hit calculate to get all 4.

I asked because the OP said something about using DCCs. That takes more amps. For example: a dual coil carto at 1.25 ohms and 6 volts (WOW!... but that's what he claimed)... is 28.8 watts (like you said...about 30) and 4.8 amps. It would probably fry any/most devices. Putting too much power through them.

Now per coil that's 14.4 watts. I don't think he's actually getting that....he'd pop the coils. His device/battery combo must be limiting it a bit but he doesn't know it because it's hard to measure properly without the right tools/gadgets.

Anyway, probably more than the kick can handle (but that's a guess).

While those calculators are nice in a pinch, or if you're looking for a number that you're not really familiar with, I would rather figure out how to do it by hand. My formula was fine, but I skipped a step and forgot to switch to volts.

Good point on that though. I don't think that there is a material that would wick fast enough to take more than a 1/2 second drag off something at that wattage.

 

[six]

to take more than a 1/2 second drag off something at that wattage.

Which is sort of the point of vaping low ohm dual coils at HV. Short drags producing plenty of warm, thick vapor.

 

[Xaiver]

I like my vapor to be cooler, myself. And I've come to enjoy the more leasurely pace of vaping versus the sort of stressed way we used to smoke. That's just me.

 

[roxics]

To be honest it's a bit much at first. So I typically start these cartos on an 18650 for a first couple of days. Then after they've worn down a bit and require more boost, I stack. My drags are usually only 1 second. I don't know what's going on exactly, but I'd find it hard to believe I'm pushing 30 watts. 13-15 seems more likely.

 

[AttyPops]

That sounds like you're spending the first few days "building an insulation layer" on the coil.... then vaping higher voltage to compensate. Probably find that it varies by juice too. Some clog faster than others.

Anyway... you'll still want to find out if the kick is amp limited. That's another variable. Sounds like it would level out your stacking...

when something is amp limited the voltage drops (or the "something" fries and dies). So maybe you're not at 6 volts like you think you are. Do you have an in-line meter? Is the device you're using regulated? VV?

 

[tj99959]

The kick is amp limited by the fact that it is both watt and volt limited and has short potection (resistance limited). The three will automatically limit amps.

With DCC's the kick will read those two 2.5ohm coils the same as one 1.25ohm coil. So at 10watts it will only be running each coil at 5watts, @ 3.5v, 2.8amps (1.4a x 2). Not what I would call a good vape. IMO you need a minimum of 12watts to push a LR DCC, 14watts would be better.

 

[MickeyRat]

Anyhow, you said 1.25 ohms and 6 volts. That's 30 watts....Oops, you said dual coils. That's 15 watts. That's pretty hot, and above what most people will enjoy for a vape. If you like it though, more power to you.

Where do you get that? The resitance doesn't change because it's dual coil. It's still 1.25 ohms and it still takes 28.8 watts to drive it at 6V. It's composed of two 2.5 ohm resistors in parallel but, that changes nothing about the resistance of the curcuit or the watts to drive it at a specific voltage.