Factory coils out-performing mine

[veganvap]

For bottom coil clearomizers (and most other 'regular' coils):

I've been wrapping 34 g A1 around silica. I was dry burning a factory made protank coil and noticed something. They use a thinner wire than 34 g and have more # of wraps (about 8 vs my usual 5 of 34g). They wrap it about 4 times and then leave a gap between the other 4 at the other side of the wick.

I noticed when I fire mine, only the first wrap lights up significantly and then the other wraps light up slower and slower as it goes down the line even with a new unused coil. You might notice this when dry burning and it looks like only one wrap is working at first.

With factory coils, the first wrap lights up right away and so does the first wrap after the small gap they made. I just wrapped mine all in a row like all the videos show.


The factory ones seems to last almost twice as long as mine untill they get crudded up and need a replacement. I only get about a good week per coil I make untill I change it, and that's with dry burning every 6 mls.


I get a better vape from the factory ones because they make two wraps instead of one light up right away. It takes some time for my wraps to all light up and create vapor at which point the first wrap is starting to give a burnt hit and I'm done inhailing anyway.

Besides the above, I of course also get more vapor from the factory coil because it uses thinner wire and more wraps for more surface area, but the thinner wire doesn't noticeably 'go bad' quicker than the thicker 34G which is why I got the thicker 34g A-1 to begin with. I read A-1 is the best and sort of doubt the factory uses high-grade kanthal despite how well it performs.



When I first noticed how the factory coils have two wraps light up right away, I thought they redesigned them as two seperate coils in the same head but I think that would just short out.

Has anyone noticed this about the gap and/or can explain why it makes the first wrap of each of the two section light up right away?

Now I wrap with the gap and it lights two wraps up right away.

Also, sort of off topic, sometimes after I dry burn the A1 I use, it gets lower in ohms (like a full .6 or so each dry burn) and never goes up as if I ruined some of the metal. I haven't had this happen with a factory coil.

Lastly FWIW, I might have defective kanthal or something. I got it from a vendor. I tried every possible thing and concluded that this wire wasn't compatable with an older model ego 3.7 volt battery, it just wouldn't fire as if the protection were blocking it.

 

[dr g]

Gonna have to read that over again to catch the nuances but off the bat I can say that you should get relatively even coil "lighting" or if anything it should glow from the middle outward. If it's not, then the coil is actually not built quite right.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

I think the factories are spot welding or soldering conducting wire to the resistance wire in the coil. I think this lets them make more wraps with the resistance material without compromising the overall resistance in the coil itself.

 

[Sickkboy]

I think the thicker the wire is the more surface when shooting for the same resistant, result in more vapor and flavor. The wire I use to rebuilt my evod is 32 gauge A1 and I still think I need a thicker wire like 29 or 30 gauge, anyway put that aside.

I wrapped 8-9 turn like folks here do their micro coils, it came out 2.7-2.8 ohm and work like a charm, start growing red from the center spread to both side, maybe you could try this. And for the ohm dropped I assume that your wrap is short, not evenly space? too tight on the legs? I dunno.

 

[veganvap]

I think the factories are spot welding or soldering conducting wire to the resistance wire in the coil. I think this lets them make more wraps with the resistance material without compromising the overall resistance in the coil itself.

I doubt they'd go to that extent, although how does that explain what you have?

I may just have defective kanthal A-1 (or whatever I was sold). Never had a coil glow from the middle wraps outward. I never used stainless steel wicks either that might have hot spots etc. Mine naturally come out seemingly perfectly spaced. Sometimes I wrap with the silica on a needle for support which leaves a space between the wire and silica, other times I just wrap it snug to the silica if that matters for this.



Sickkboy, I beg to differ about thicker wire with less wraps = more surface area than more wraps of thinner wire. I always read the opposite but, regardless I think the main factor is how only the first wrap of my builds seems to glow and then it progressively glows less down the line. At least untill I added the gap half way between the # of wraps which makes the first of each set glow mostly.

 

[dr g]

It's probably worth noting that going to a thicker gauge of wire requires more power.

 

[Butters78]

Are the wicks are the factory made by machine or hand? It would take forever by hand I'd imagine.

 

[veganvap]

I think they make coils by hand. Probably not impossible by automated machine, but I don't think it's pratical for Kanger.

 

[danny4x4]

1) use a lower gauge wire.

2) the gap in between the coils acts like a small "reservoir" for the coil closest to it. Juice may be heated up by the outer coils, leaving little for the middle coil, hence the little reservoir. That's my theory anyway. But personally, since I do microcoils and cotton, I don't leave the gap in the middle. You can if you want, because the theory makes sense, but I've not noticed a difference.

3} the drop in resistance may be caused by unstraightened/crimped legs. Ensure all legs are straightened without kinks before installing the grommet. It may also be caused by too thick a flavour wick, which presses down on the coil when it's saturated with juice.

4) the coils should last for pretty long. 1 week is too short. What exactly happened to your own coil after a week? Did it pop? Too gunked up?

 

[Butters78]

I think they make coils by hand. Probably not impossible by automated machine, but I don't think it's pratical for Kanger.

I think they pay them with bed bath and beyond coupons.

Man that is an awesome skill. Building coils like nobodies business.

 

[Cloud_King]

For 34g kanthal try a 2/3 wrap instead of 4/5 or 5/6 that youre doing right now. Either that or get 32 or 30 gauge kanthal. I imagine the resistance of your 5 wrap 34g is pretty high.

 

[scalewiz]

I've investigated the factory coils and they DO use both resistance and non-resistance wire. Even in my Kanger T3 coils, this is noticeable if taken apart. Using non-resistance wire for the legs concentrates the energy in the coil/wick area; "hot legs" are less efficient, as some energy is wasted.

 

[Glen Snyder]

I think they pay them with bed bath and beyond coupons.

Man that is an awesome skill. Building coils like nobodies business.

With that kind of manual dexterity she could make a fortune in Pahrump

 

[veganvap]

1) use a lower gauge wire.


3} the drop in resistance may be caused by unstraightened/crimped legs. Ensure all legs are straightened without kinks before installing the grommet. It may also be caused by too thick a flavour wick, which presses down on the coil when it's saturated with juice.

4) the coils should last for pretty long. 1 week is too short. What exactly happened to your own coil after a week? Did it pop? Too gunked up?

3) my legs are straight, I do bend one to the side before putting on the grounding grommet into the other so it doesn't interfeir with pushing the grommet in. That kink is right where I cliiper the excess off and already past the dead zone the grounding grommet makes though. I only get an ohm drop when I fully dry burn it as if I damaged it. I see it dropping ohms as I dry burn with no flavor wick installed.

4)Too gunked/low vapor production even after fully dry burned every 6 ml and sometimes scraped to flake debris off.



I think I just have some defective kanthal and am ordering more and thinner.

 

[Snickerfritz]

Also, sort of off topic, sometimes after I dry burn the A1 I use, it gets lower in ohms (like a full .6 or so each dry burn) and never goes up as if I ruined some of the metal.

If you had ruined some of the metal in the wire, wouldn't the resistance actually go up?

 

[veganvap]

If you had ruined some of the metal in the wire, wouldn't the resistance actually go up?

I know this is probably said a million times already, but do I have it backwards? The thinner the wire = the lower the ohms, no? That would be opposite of what you're saying and I read the same statement elsewhere.

But then how this?: if I put one small wrap of thin kanthal, I assume the ohms would be low and I would only need to send a small amount of volts through it to get some decent wattage. But if I attach a 20' metal flagpole to my mod, then it would have a high ohm and I would have to send a lot of volts through it to get some wattage.

If I want to have a lot of coil surface area for more vapor production, and my mod only went up to, say 3 volts for example, then shouldn't I use a very thin wire so all the wraps don't add up to too high of an ohm so that 4 volts still gets it hot enough?

I know the lower the gauge kanthal, the thicker it is, like ammo and syringes, but saying thinner wire = higher ohms doesn't make sense to me.

I assume you're assuming the wire got thinner from dry burning damge, and thus resistance (ohms) went up.

Nevermind the wire I have that lowers in ohms when it's dry burned. I dry burned factory coils way more on purpose, and they didn't change. I think I have defective kanthal. I had another strange problem with it not working on an older ego battery yet all other factory coils worked fine as if the ego's protection wasn't reading the wire. It just flashed like a short, but I know %100 there were no shorts.

 

[onion456]

yes you have it backwards. thicker wire has less resistance. we always use the water analogy with electronics. think of it like a garden hose. you can push more water through a fatter hose. less resistance.

hm im wrapping my EVOD/protank coils with 6 wraps of 32ga for 2.4ohms, with cotton wick- i am not shooting for longevity, i cant dry burn with cotton, but the coils do vape very well. i figure they only cost me 9c to make, so i dont care if they only last 2 days, just pop a new one in when its even remotely sub-par.

 

[supermarket]

3) my legs are straight, I do bend one to the side before putting on the grounding grommet into the other so it doesn't interfeir with pushing the grommet in. That kink is right where I cliiper the excess off and already past the dead zone the grounding grommet makes though. I only get an ohm drop when I fully dry burn it as if I damaged it. I see it dropping ohms as I dry burn with no flavor wick installed.

4)Too gunked/low vapor production even after fully dry burned every 6 ml and sometimes scraped to flake debris off.



I think I just have some defective kanthal and am ordering more and thinner.

I would order 32g.

For evods and protanks, 32g kanthal is PERFECT. If using silica wick, use 2-3mm silica wick.

 

[ScottP]

I tried every possible thing and concluded that this wire wasn't compatable with an older model ego 3.7 volt battery, it just wouldn't fire as if the protection were blocking it.

It's not you. Not only have I had the same issue, I have seen a couple of others also report the same thing. It seems to be a problem specific to the eGo-T batteries. The eGo-C batteries seem to work fine.

I personally have an eGo-T 650mAh pass through and no coil that I can build for my Vivi Nova or my EVOD (I build in the 2.0 - 2.4 ohm range) will fire on it. ALL of those same coils fire fine on other devices. I cannot figure out for the life of me why they won't work on that specific battery. Although I have not tried adding conductive (0 Ohm) leads.

I know this is probably said a million times already, but do I have it backwards? The thinner the wire = the lower the ohms, no? That would be opposite of what you're saying and I read the same statement elsewhere.

Yeah gauge/resistance can be a bit confusing at first. Gauge is a reverse measurement in the sense that the larger the number the smaller/thinner the wire. Considering the smaller the wire the higher the resistance, it also means the larger the gauge, the higher the resistance.

Think of it like this:
G = Gauge, R = Resistance, D = Diameter of the wire, ^ = up, and v = down

G^ = R^ = Dv
Gv = Rv = D^

Hope that helps.

 

[veganvap]

it was a non-VV ego (possibly made before VV egos were even made) that wouldn't fire the kanthal I have. Forgot which vendor I got it from, I posted that here months ago.

a lot wraps of thick wire = lower ohms than a small # of wraps of thinner wire still doesn't make sense to me (eg the flagpole analogy), but whatever, I'll get thicker wire because I want more surface area with a lot of wraps and my mod only goes up to 6 V.

I use 3mm silica with aprox 1/4 of another 3mm piece for the top wick in a protank and sometimes hemp. You probably know you can thread the cotton/hemp in the coil and remove it before dry burning so those wicks don't burn away. It's probably easier to just rebuild a coil like you said to avoid having to wrap the coil seperately and then thread the wick through instead of just wrapping the wire over the wick. They're probably less than 9c to build and dry burning takes longer. Plus there's nothing like a fresh coil, even a dry burned one - the wick gets a bit burnt and deters flavor also.

Thanks for the help.