Fake PG kills - suppliers CHECK your sources

[RjG]

This link is to an article TropicalBob posted absolutely blew me away. OMG.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/americas/06poison.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1


This article applies HUGELY to both PG and VG e-juice,
since selling over the internet you could kill hundreds of people
and not even know it.

Suppliers, you NEED to read this, right to the end.

 

[Bertrand]

Wasn't the point of the article that you can't check your sources, since the certificates are faked?

 

[RjG]

Since a couple of suppliers have gone to the effort to obtain lab analysis of the contents of their juice, I would hope they would be the type of vendor to be purchasing from reputable sources as well.

I really doubt many e-juice supplier even know there is fake PG out there, and how incredibly easy it is to get it, especially if you're buying "cheap" or looking for the best price out of China with an unknown new supplier.

My point of re-posting that link here was to hopefully at least make some of them aware that it's out there, and maybe avoid some potential deaths by shopping carefully for ingredients and/or new sources of e-juice to sell us.

 

[MrFog]

I think the main danger is ingestion, this is still bad though.

 

[deewal]

Could some supplier's comment on this article please ?
I assume they buy the Cartridges allready filled but in the UK both Pillbox (Wicked) and E-Cigs uk sell bottles of juice.
How do they have theirs made as they are experimenting with different flavours and strengths etc.?
I would like some assurance from our suppliers that they do know what they are supplying.

 

[rattlerviper]

A bit scary that is!

 

[Grumpysanta]

And that's why I buy from Pillbox. That fact that he has paid large amounts of money to have his liquid tested reassures me that his liquid is safe.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

I guess I can be the first supplier to comment ...

Looking at the article ...

Dated
By WALT BOGDANICH and JAKE ......
Published: May 6, 2007

This is definitely scary I do admit ... But the same can hold true for contaminated tomato soup, sour cream, mad cow disease beef, etc...

Everyday, there is a recall or a contaminated product found. Both PG and VG are found in soooooo many substances, its insane to count.

Living in fear will get you no where. You know what a tobacco cigarette can do to you, yet you smoked it anyways. The Ecig world is a huge unknown at this point. You are nothing bud a beta tester *praying* for healthier alternative to tobacco ...

as always ... just my $.02 cents on the matter

 

[CaSHMeRe]

p.s. -- I would also like to add ... I do take these issues seriously. I wouldn't sell the product if I didn't have my full faith in it and even use it myself. The cartridges and juices people are getting from us on a daily basis are the same ones I use personally.

 

[Schroedinger's cat]

This is a potentially serious issue, although I do not plan to lose sleep on it (but I would like the bottles to be more secure, in case children put their hands on them).

However, we all know what cigarettes can do to us. They don't do it to everyone, though, and they do it slowly.... An inhaled poison can kill very fast, on the other hand -and it would be really a sad irony that people trying a healthy alternative to smoking would end up dying faster because os some unscrupulous manufacturer....

 

[deewal]

Point taken Cashmere. I can get poisoned by eating many of Tesco's food delights. Their sausages can keep you in the toilet for days.8-o

 

[Ludo]

There are only a few liquid manufacturers in China and they are controlled by labs en government inspection. When they export to other countries, like Janty exports to Italy, samples are gathered at customs inspection for tests. I have already posted these tests numerous times on different forums. Our liquids are tested AND APPROVED SAFE by the University of Naples - Federico II, TUV Rheinland, SGS and the Chinese national disease control prevention centre.

Here's what one company has to post on their website to be able to sell the carts in their country:

Untitled Document

 

[PeteMcArthur]

I'm sure Janty is taking the proper steps Ludo, but people in the west are genuinely worried. If baby products can be contaminated, juice can as well. A few people here are quite happy to import litres of the stuff directly from China to save a few quid. I won't do that, I'd rather buy from companies, including Janty, who have put some effort into QC but I still worry

 

[Bertrand]

Probably safer buying it in 1L containers:

Assume the odds of a batch being poisoned = X and a 1L container will last you the year.

If instead you buy it in small containers, (1 a week? ) each of them from different batches. Your odds of being poisoned in a year are then 1-((1-X)^52)

eg. for X = 1% you are comparing 1% for a 1L batch vs. 40% for 52x 20 mL containers.

Cheapskate 'wins' hehehe. Yes, probably some of the assumptions are a little wrong, but the general idea still holds.

 

[PeteMcArthur]

Probably safer buying it in 1L containers:

Assume the odds of a batch being poisoned = X and a 1L container will last you the year.

If instead you buy it in small containers, (1 a week? ) each of them from different batches. Your odds of being poisoned in a year are then 1-((1-X)^52)

eg. for X = 1% you are comparing 1% for a 1L batch vs. 40% for 52x 20 mL containers.

Cheapskate 'wins' hehehe. Yes, probably some of the assumptions are a little wrong, but the general idea still holds.

Good point I suppose I'm worried that I'll get a litre of juice that tastes like cats urine! My present plan if to perfect a homebrew juice using snus (heavily regulated & tested in Sweden) and glycerine (medical grades freely available) It may not work and no way will it be cheaper but at least I'll know what's in it Worth a try..

 

[rattlerviper]

Cigarettes could be poisoned as well it seems. So the possibility of running into a tainted product is everywhere around us. Personally I will stick to buying from where I have purchased from already (Puresmoker and LitecigUSA) as I trust these businesses. I'll probably give wicked liquid a try when they open up over here in the USA. Other than sticking with places I trust I am not going to worry about it anymore.

 

[Bertrand]

My present plan if to perfect a homebrew juice using snus (heavily regulated & tested in Sweden) and glycerine (medical grades freely available) It may not work and no way will it be cheaper

OT, but I don't think it would be prohibitively costly. You can get 45g of 12 mg/g (hehehe - refreshing to see actual measurements here rather than "18mg" of "something we won't tell you") snus from eg. snusexpress.com for EUR3.

If you're making 18mg juice, and had 100% extraction, it would cost you ~EUR3 per 30ml. Some sites, eg. e-cigs.co.uk want about EUR22 for that much, so taking into account the small cost of glycerine, you would need to have less than 20% extraction before it became more expensive.

Could be fun. Looking forward to hearing how you go with it.

Of course, 1L bottles from wholesalers do change the relative costs slightly... And it would cost pennies if you could just buy nicotine from the pharmacy.