Fakes/clones pro's/con's

[airbrushaddict]

Here's a few things to take in consideration when it comes to a clone vs authentic debate.

Let's start with clones. Clones are cheaper because their produced cheaper. Just because their produced cheaper, doesn't mean their cheap. If you get my drift? There are a few factors in why they are produced cheaper. As most of us already know. Chinese jobs don't pay well. Their factories are set up for mass production. While an American mod company may have three or four CNC machines producing different parts. A Chinese company may have 20 or 30 CNC machines. The company with these many CNC machines usually machine many other products then products for the vaping industry. China produces very little iron ore. So where do they get their stainless, aluminum, and brass? They buy our scrap. They buy copious amounts of our scrap! So much, that alot of the raw material we use, are sold back to us. So basically, their mods and our mods are made of the same grade materials.
American vape gear manufacturers have to charge more money for many reasons. Machinists, CNC programmers, engineers, and even button pushers don't come cheap. Most making upwards to $60.00 a hour. Most button pushers start at $15.00 a hour. Since shops here get their materials at scrap prices, that too will add to the products price. As mentioned above. Most of our mod companies are very small. So there's fewer CNC machines to crank out production. Also these small shops are dedicated to the vape industry only. There's also the cost marketing of a new product. Clone companies don't have this cost, because the product already exists.
I hope this gives some of you an idea of why there's such a big difference between authentic and clone manufactured vape gear. I know there's alot more variable's involved in the pricing, but I think you'll get the gist of it.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

 

[snork]

I do not believe for one second that the majority (if not all) of the mech mod manufacturers mill their own tubes out of blocks of marine grade steel...

The far more likely scenario is that they buy in hollow tubes which are already the OD required with an ID ready for threading. The mod maker then cuts the tube to size, threads it & finishes (polishing, engraving etc).
I am sure that some even outsource the cutting, threading & finishing, which makes sense considering it is a more cost effective way to operate (due to there being companies that specialize in exactly those areas which already have trained staff and the required machinery).

If they don't operate the system outlined above then they really need to go to business school. (and not just for the lessons on marking up the price)

If I were to hand make a mech mod and it took me a year to do, it does not necessarily mean that it is worth $50,000.
That is the case especially if someone else (with greater skill/expertise) can make the same thing in less time & with less overheads.


Picture of delivery of metal tubes (element mods instagram)
View attachment 349889

 

[Feraloxide]

Currently, I can't see myself willing to shell out $300 for a battery holder. It's evident from mechanical mod clones that it costs nowhere near that much to produce them. Slapping a logo and some fancy engravings on a metal tube doesn't warrant such a high price tag.

I realize my view is an unpopular one here. For that, I see the original makers as the thieves. More power to the clones.

 

[Chelonian]

Snork -

Just ordered my ELA

When do the Precise Pluses come out? I need a 650

Feraloxide

The video above you shows a milled tube being made.

Clones are, without expection extruded - that is to say, they are bought in raw tube lengths.

This is one big difference in cost, and there are many more.

If you like clones, then great. But to think that some are thieves just because others build differently so that they can be cheaper, without regards to the finished product other than if it works or not, is wrong.

Just don't buy originals if you like cheap, clones can vape well

 

[snork]

Snork -

Just ordered my ELA

When do the Precise Pluses come out? I need a 650

Yes, you do.
I have no idea.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Currently, I can't see myself willing to shell out $300 for a battery holder. It's evident from mechanical mod clones that it costs nowhere near that much to produce them. Slapping a logo and some fancy engravings on a metal tube doesn't warrant such a high price tag.

I realize my view is an unpopular one here. For that, I see the original makers as the thieves. More power to the clones.

What I struggle with is the wrath of doodoo I got from a bunch is ECFrs when I bought a provari for 170.00
But I SHOULD spend 250 for a mech mod.
The less expensive one has circuitry allowing me to adjust voltage and uses less expensive batteries. The other is a tube made of brass/zipper you tell me.
But instead of spending 250 I spend 50.00
And I get more doodoo in the face.
Really???
That's ok I still have an American sports car that's not a Volkswagen clone.

 

[Chelonian]

whaaaaaat?

 

[Fir3b1rd]

whaaaaaat?

When I bought my provari I got all kind of crappeded on by a bunch of people on ECF- check the new members forum it happens to someone once a week if not more
Now I see this creap people crapping on people for spending 50 bucks-or less- on a mech clone.
...???
Should I put a post asking permission to spend 3 bucks in kanthal.... So long as it's not cloned kamthal.
This crap burns my ash.

Or we're you asking about the clones Volkswagen.
Some genius up there said something about he'll be driving a Porsche because he bought something ; i dunno what, some vape gear is going to transfigure into a Porsche somehow. I was calling the Porsche a clones Volkswagen considering the Volkswagen came first and Porsche is the worst example possible for overpriced European sports car. Whatever happened to the lambo or Aston Martin

 

[Feraloxide]

When I bought my provari I got all kind of crappeded on by a bunch of people on ECF- check the new members forum it happens to someone once a week if not more
Now I see this creap people crapping on people for spending 50 bucks-or less- on a mech clone.
...???
Should I put a post asking permission to spend 3 bucks in kanthal.... So long as it's not cloned kamthal.
This crap burns my ash.

Or we're you asking about the clones Volkswagen.
Some genius up there said something about he'll be driving a Porsche because he bought something ; i dunno what, some vape gear is going to transfigure into a Porsche somehow. I was calling the Porsche a clones Volkswagen considering the Volkswagen came first and Porsche is the worst example possible for overpriced European sports car. Whatever happened to the lambo or Aston Martin

While I'm guilty of wholeheartedly disliking Provari, you really shouldn't allow opinions to get to you. Be proud of what you bought, there's always a crowd that will back you and one that will shun you for your choices. That goes for everything, not just buying an APV.

 

[Rossum]

Currently, I can't see myself willing to shell out $300 for a battery holder. It's evident from mechanical mod clones that it costs nowhere near that much to produce them. Slapping a logo and some fancy engravings on a metal tube doesn't warrant such a high price tag.

I realize my view is an unpopular one here. For that, I see the original makers as the thieves. More power to the clones.

Really? Somebody designs, engineers, tests, and produces something. They then put their name, logo, and in some cases, even their signature on it. You call such people thieves because you don't wanna pay the price they want for their hard work?

But you think it's OK for someone else to just copy all that, thereby bypassing all the design, engineering, and testing that went into the original product? And then reproduce the original maker's logo, signature, and to lie about where the clone is made? That's not stealing in your view?

Obviously you've never designed, engineered, tested, and produced a real product. Try it sometime. It's an eye-opening experience. People who have (even in industries unrelated to vaping) generally take a pretty dim view of clones. They are the makers. The other kind are the takers. Remember something: Without the makers there could be no takers.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

While I'm guilty of wholeheartedly disliking Provari, you really shouldn't allow opinions to get to you. Be proud of what you bought, there's always a crowd that will back you and one that will shun you for your choices. That goes for everything, not just buying an APV.

I figured that out when I decided to join the band in 8th grade.
But you just proved the point that this entire discussion if pointlessly irrelevant.
Thank you

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Really? Somebody designs, engineers, tests, and produces something. They then put their name, logo, and in some cases, even their signature on it. You call such people thieves because you don't wanna pay the price they want for their hard work?

But you think it's OK for someone else to just copy all that, thereby bypassing all the design, engineering, and testing that went into the original product? And then reproduce the original maker's logo, signature, and to lie about where the clone is made? That's not stealing in your view?

Obviously you've never designed, engineered, tested, and produced a real product. Try it sometime. It's an eye-opening experience. People who have (even in industries unrelated to vaping) generally take a pretty dim view of clones. They are the makers. The other kind are the takers. Remember something: Without the makers there could be no takers.

While I'm guilty of wholeheartedly disliking Provari, you really shouldn't allow opinions to get to you. Be proud of what you bought, there's always a crowd that will back you and one that will shun you for your choices. That goes for everything, not just buying an APV.

The best part is:::::

you really shouldn't allow opinions to get to you. Be proud of what you bought

 

[Chelonian]

Ton3

Yah, I remember now - I saw that post.

If anything, I think that authentic owners take ALOT more crap form clone buyers.....there are ALOT more clone buyers, and some of the seem to have a crusade against authentics - look at Feraloxide calling mod makers thieves, for example, all the while ignoring a milled tube being made in a video just above his post. Milling tubes out of solids cost ALOT in bits, material, and electricity, all in the name of making a measurably better product. Yet, they are thieves...

Just ignore it

 

[Feraloxide]

Really? Somebody designs, engineers, tests, and produces something. They then put their name, logo, and in some cases, even their signature on it. You call such people thieves because you don't wanna pay the price they want for their hard work?

But you think it's OK for someone else to just copy all that, thereby bypassing all the design, engineering, and testing that went into the original product? And then reproduce the original maker's logo, signature, and to lie about where the clone is made? That's not stealing in your view?

Obviously you've never designed, engineered, tested, and produced a real product. Try it sometime. It's an eye-opening experience. People who have (even in industries unrelated to vaping) generally take a pretty dim view of clones. They are the makers. The other kind are the takers. Remember something: Without the makers there could be no takers.

Of course it's thievery, but of a different type. A far kinder type. I don't necessarily agree with the manufacturers of clones claiming they're authentic. An idea isn't a tangible object of any value to anyone but the one who holds the idea in their mind. While some may think it's fine to charge $300 for something clearly not worth $300, it's just as wrong as producing a clone.

Keep in mind that everyone is a taker, the cloners the takers of ideas, and the originals the takers of money.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Ton3

Yah, I remember now - I saw that post.

If anything, I think that authentic owners take ALOT more crap form clone buyers.....there are ALOT more clone buyers, and some of the seem to have a crusade against authentics - look at Feraloxide calling mod makers thieves, for example, all the while ignoring a milled tube being made in a video just above his post. Milling tubes out of solids cost ALOT in bits, material, and electricity, all in the name of making a measurably better product. Yet, they are thieves...

Just ignore it

I'm not taking it personal it doesn't bother me one damn bit. I have thick skin.
The crap that ...... me off is this cyclical hypocrisy: usually from the same cats that go answer someone's question about liking to upgrade to something and they spout out some
Ridiculously high power or expensive mod when the the new vapor is asking about a blu.
My pet peaces are hypocracy and idiocracy.

I was just trying to make the general point of::::
"Your an Ashhole for spending 170 on a reg mod and at the same time you're a bigger Ashhole for spending 50 bucks on a mech."

I don't care what the hell anyone says proud of all my gear. It's the hypo each of that statement.

Please don't confuses my Point.

And look at my last list above --Feraloxide proved my point for me through his own hypocritical banter

 

[Rossum]

Keep in mind that everyone is a taker, the cloners the takers of ideas, and the originals the takers of money.

Takers of money? They only take money that's given in a voluntary exchange of value by those who think it IS worth that much. That's NOT stealing. If it's not worth it to you, don't buy it! The fact that it's not worth it to you doesn't make it right for you (or your favorite clone producer) to take their ideas, their logo, and their name, put them on a copy, make those copies in a sweat shop, lie about where it's made, and sell it for less. Sorry, but that IS stealing. And you're not only supporting it, you're cheering it on.

 

[Feraloxide]

Takers of money? They only take money that's given in a voluntary exchange of value by those who think it IS worth that much. That's NOT stealing. If it's not worth it to you, don't buy it! The fact that it's not worth it to you doesn't make it right for you (or your favorite clone producer) to take their ideas, their logo, and their name, put them on a copy, make those copies in a sweat shop, lie about where it's made, and sell it for less. Sorry, but that IS stealing. And you're not only supporting it, you're cheering it on.

I never denied it was stealing, nor did I say it's right to do any of the aforementioned things. Based on your reply I doubt you glazed over more than the last line. Perhaps a more accurate term for what you claim isn't stealing would be swindling. It's a lesser of two evils kind of situation, and you're damn right I'm cheering it on.

 

[Coldrake]

I never denied it was stealing, nor did I say it's right to do any of the aforementioned things. Based on your reply I doubt you glazed over more than the last line. Perhaps a more accurate term for what you claim isn't stealing would be swindling. It's a lesser of two evils kind of situation, and you're damn right I'm cheering it on.

Obviously you don't know what the word "swindling" means.

 

[Feraloxide]

Obviously you don't know what the word "swindling" means.

"use deception to deprive (someone) of money or possessions."
Obviously you don't know what selling a battery holder made of "premium materials" is.

 

[Chelonian]

Not much use talking to someone who not only supports swindling, but cheers it on. Too much selfishness for proper dialogue.

It shows in his total lack of regard of the opinions of others.

I can understand someone who is cheap, and buys cheap things. I don't understand a person who is cheap disparaging those who are not.

And while there are many authentics that are not worth the money (especially companies that came out in the last two years) there are many that no clone has ever touched. If you don't understand the difference between milled and extruded, or don't care, then whats the point in talking to authentic owners about it anyways? Its one of the main reasons to buy authentics. It's like a checkers player arguing chess with a chess player.

Evangelizing that there are no differences between all authentics and clones on the forum merely impresses those who think like you, perhaps influences some new people, and makes everyone else just shake their head.

ECF has become home to a rabid form of cloner - one that feels they have to argue with authentic owners. We usually respond out of sheer amazement, but its useless. There are far more clones out there due to production, as well as price. A small but vocal minority run around this forum preaching the clone gospel.

They are now the worst group for pushing there preferences on everyone around them, and they are abrasive about it as well.

It's like trying to talk politics with a trailer park conservative....Tea Cloners