Fasttech Veterans

[Brynglas]

@Pictor

POET range now new in stock @ Vapeclub

POET E-Liquid

 

[Bobw1951]

This is completely off topic - sorry.

Our two dogs had their teeth done yesterday. Both had routine blood checks too.
The big one was also there for an x-ray as she'd had intermittent limping over the past few weeks. Vet had thought this limping with the rear right leg was cruciate ligament, but the x-ray showed an obvious tumour on the femur just above the knee. Osteo Sarcoma.
It came as a very unexpected & dreadful shock. She's 10, and should perhaps live for another 4 years. Were she another 2plus years older, the decision would be to go with option 1, or perhaps 2 together with very close observation.

Three options, none exactly great:

1/ Euthanasia
2/ Treat with pain relief until his monitoring shows it's time to call it a day-literally.
3/ Amputation

I can't bring myself to go for option 1, and option 2 doesn't seem to give any if's or chances - purely pain relief, so no therapeutic aid whatsoever. Could be within a couple of weeks, the vet decides that's the day to stop. To me it's like standing by and watching something burn rather than try putting the fire out, or at least dampen it down.

Option 3, although drastic, perhaps could give weeks, or with luck perhaps months, and lots of luck stretching into a year ...no-one knows.

We have an appointment to see the vet on Friday afternoon (we'll leave Sophie at home I think), but he said to phone and ask him anything today (he's away on Thursday). Other x-rays don't appear to show it spreading anywhere yet.

He's already said he wouldn't even let us ask him to give her chemotherapy, as he feels it's too unpleasant for too little in return - a fact verified by a close friend earlier: some dogs cope with a few days sickness each time, others are quite ill with it.

These are median prognoses, so could go either way:
Amputation and chemotherapy – 10 to 12 months (See above)
Limb spare and chemotherapy – 10 to 12 months (Tumour too close to knee for this operation)
Radiation and chemotherapy – 8 to 10 months (Radiation can cause as many problems as it fixes).
Amputation alone – 4 to 5 months
Palliative care – 1 to 3 months (Vets last two patients only lasted days: one 4, the other 7-10days)

He's a very good vet, and we've been with him for a long time. We've always trusted him & his judgement, and he's always been right.

This time, he's given us these options and left it to us to ask questions and decide. Makes it hard.
He has said tonight that if it were his dog and it was in the same healthy condition and stage as our dog, then he'd opt for amputation because right away, the pain is gone and the tumours progress halted.

Apart from this, she's still her loopy, otherwise healthy self - and I love her so much.

Last night, we just about decided to go with amputation, now my husband is wondering if it's fair on her ...I just don't know. In the small hours, I almost decided to go with option 1 to alleviate any further discomfort or suffering - in the light of day, it seems we should try for better.

Truth is, it's all horrible no matter which way we look at it. I'm hoping to sleep better tonight, and hopefully reach a good decision by Friday.

So sorry to hear that, you'll make the right decision I know, but it is tough deciding what to do

 

[Pictor]

@Pictor
POET range now new in stock @ Vapeclub
POET E-Liquid

Thanks George! I'll try a couple of those soon

So sorry to hear that, you'll make the right decision I know, but it is tough deciding what to do

Thanks Bob.It's dreadful - no option is good, and they all lead to the same thing, but I need to make the right one based purely on what's best for her. I'm thinking today that the option I immediately dismissed is possibly the right one - the other two mean more medication and probably some increasing pain for perhaps just a few weeks more, or traumatic surgery for what may only be a few months.
The fact it doesn't appear to have visibly spread yet, is small comfort, as it's guaranteed to reappear somewhere soon apparently.
She has no concept of time left, so who is the extra time for? I'm thinking it wouldn't be fair to wait until she's in more pain, and from what I've found out, this type of pain is really terrible.

I'll know better tomorrow after we see the vet again.

 

[Brynglas]

Thanks George! I'll try a couple of those soon

My bad for posting the link before reading your previous post Trish.
Buying juice must be the last thing on your mind at the moment.
Sad news for you,sorry.

 

[Bobw1951]

As for this re: Wales :

New rules on tattooing, piercing and e-cigarettes set to become law - BBC News

They may have rolled back a bit but they're still really, really wrong.

Glad that bill got thrown out - another good reason never to vote for Labour, they really are a bunch of !ankers, it was also their MEPs that pushed the TPD through

 

[terry w]

This is completely off topic - sorry.

Our two dogs had their teeth done yesterday. Both had routine blood checks too.
The big one was also there for an x-ray as she'd had intermittent limping over the past few weeks. Vet had thought this limping with the rear right leg was cruciate ligament, but the x-ray showed an obvious tumour on the femur just above the knee. Osteo Sarcoma.
It came as a very unexpected & dreadful shock. She's 10, and should perhaps live for another 4 years. Were she another 2plus years older, the decision would be to go with option 1, or perhaps 2 together with very close observation.

Three options, none exactly great:

1/ Euthanasia
2/ Treat with pain relief until his monitoring shows it's time to call it a day-literally.
3/ Amputation

I can't bring myself to go for option 1, and option 2 doesn't seem to give any if's or chances - purely pain relief, so no therapeutic aid whatsoever. Could be within a couple of weeks, the vet decides that's the day to stop. To me it's like standing by and watching something burn rather than try putting the fire out, or at least dampen it down.

Option 3, although drastic, perhaps could give weeks, or with luck perhaps months, and lots of luck stretching into a year ...no-one knows.

We have an appointment to see the vet on Friday afternoon (we'll leave Sophie at home I think), but he said to phone and ask him anything today (he's away on Thursday). Other x-rays don't appear to show it spreading anywhere yet.

He's already said he wouldn't even let us ask him to give her chemotherapy, as he feels it's too unpleasant for too little in return - a fact verified by a close friend earlier: some dogs cope with a few days sickness each time, others are quite ill with it.

These are median prognoses, so could go either way:
Amputation and chemotherapy – 10 to 12 months (See above)
Limb spare and chemotherapy – 10 to 12 months (Tumour too close to knee for this operation)
Radiation and chemotherapy – 8 to 10 months (Radiation can cause as many problems as it fixes).
Amputation alone – 4 to 5 months
Palliative care – 1 to 3 months (Vets last two patients only lasted days: one 4, the other 7-10days)

He's a very good vet, and we've been with him for a long time. We've always trusted him & his judgement, and he's always been right.

This time, he's given us these options and left it to us to ask questions and decide. Makes it hard.
He has said tonight that if it were his dog and it was in the same healthy condition and stage as our dog, then he'd opt for amputation because right away, the pain is gone and the tumours progress halted.

Apart from this, she's still her loopy, otherwise healthy self - and I love her so much.

Last night, we just about decided to go with amputation, now my husband is wondering if it's fair on her ...I just don't know. In the small hours, I almost decided to go with option 1 to alleviate any further discomfort or suffering - in the light of day, it seems we should try for better.

Truth is, it's all horrible no matter which way we look at it. I'm hoping to sleep better tonight, and hopefully reach a good decision by Friday.

How bloody awful Trish, i certainly haven`t liked that post It sounds very similar to the dilemma we had with our Sheba ( Tumour on her front leg ) just below her shoulder.
As you know it`s about quality of life now for Sophie, as it was for Sheba, and although our vet did give the option of amputation, he explained that it would just be too overwhelming for her at her age, 10 strangely enough.

So as you probably remember Trish, we went down the pain relief route, and we were just so happy to have her with us until we had to make the horrible decision If Sophie is still full of beans and not showing much discomfort, well i`m not going to try to tell you what to do, but that would be our decision

Did you see me mention to you that LCCC is back in stock? They seem to have the wrong price on it though: 30ml £4.80!?

Bloody hell i think i will buy a shed load at that price.

 

[terry w]

Did you see me mention to you that LCCC is back in stock? They seem to have the wrong price on it though: 30ml £4.80!?

Just ordered 120 Ml for £21.68, i hope they honour it

 

[terry w]

Oh, nearly forgot, the Cherry Yoghurt i made...Very Yoghurty, sort of sour but nice with just a hint of Cherry, but considering i only made it yesterday, the Cherry may come through better after a steep As it is now i would still give it 7/10.

 

[Pictor]

My bad for posting the link before reading your previous post Trish.
Buying juice must be the last thing on your mind at the moment.
Sad news for you,sorry.

Don't you feel bad at all George! I need a few diversions because it's all mental torture at the moment. You're all my friends - even if you do live in my computer, and I value you being around
I'll get some POET at some point - always wanted to at least try one or two!

How bloody awful Trish, i certainly haven`t liked that post It sounds very similar to the dilemma we had with our Sheba ( Tumour on her front leg ) just below her shoulder.

Yes, I remember. Sophies is rear right leg right above the knee joint - any higher and the vet would do a limb save (like Noel Fitzpatrick does by taking out the diseased part and replacing it - our vet uses a piece of rib). As it is, he can't remove it in any way other than the whole leg.

As you know it`s about quality of life now for Sophie, as it was for Sheba, and although our vet did give the option of amputation, he explained that it would just be too overwhelming for her at her age, 10 strangely enough.

Ours seems to think she's fit & well enough to cope with it - says he wouldn't have given it as an option to us otherwise. I'm pretty sure she would cope too - but is it worth a traumatic major surgery for what may only be 4/5 months ..perhaps more, but perhaps less? These tumours are very aggressive and will have put out cells into her bloodstream, even though they aren't yet visible. Chemo. and radiation is just too much extra to put her through for very little in return apparently. Vet doesn't like radiation anyway ..can cause more problems than it helps.
I think of this big, beautiful girl having a leg removed at the hip and it's unbearable - husband thinks the same, and the lady who owns Sophie's cousin (and the breeder of our small one) had bad dreams about it last night - and she's pretty tough.

So as you probably remember Trish, we went down the pain relief route, and we were just so happy to have her with us until we had to make the horrible decision If Sophie is still full of beans and not showing much discomfort, well i`m not going to try to tell you what to do, but that would be our decision

I do remember, and yesterday I thought we'd do just that. But, already she's discovered that the treats contain a very nasty tasting capsule, and she got one stuck on the roof of her mouth this morning. We just had a tough hour trying to get another dose of two capsules into her: cheese, sausage, pate - nope. I think she can smell it now. I tried putting it down her throat three times and managed to finally do it, but can't bring myself to do it again. Not fair and she looked quite shocked - never done anything like that with her before.
Just phoned the vets and they don't have anything in liquid form - I can give her the Metacam in the syringe no problem, so thought a liquid morph. may be available for dogs - seems not. We could go and get an injection that will last some hours, so we'll see if I can get her to take any more tonight ....don't think this is going to be a good route to go down, and if we did decide on just painkillers, the pain would progressively increase and she'd need more & more medication - what if that leg snaps (which it would eventually) but if it's weekend, we'd finish up with a strange vet, and that's not good.

She's slower and a bit dozy with the drug too, so apart from the odd spurt when someone arrives, she's rather quiet. I wouldn't dare let her run in the garden either - she's perhaps 38kg, so pretty heavy to bounce around on a weakened bone.

We see the vet tomorrow afternoon, and will decide then probably. Just so hard.

Bloody hell i think i will buy a shed load at that price.

Just ordered 120 Ml for £21.68, i hope they honour it

Good for you!

Oh, nearly forgot, the Cherry Yoghurt i made...Very Yoghurty, sort of sour but nice with just a hint of Cherry, but considering i only made it yesterday, the Cherry may come through better after a steep As it is now i would still give it 7/10.

NT made a cherry one once to go with a cheesecake they did (had a choice of fruits to buy with it) The cherry one took some time to fully steep. If yours doesn't get a fuller flavour eventually, add a bit of strawberry or raspberry concentrate to it!

 

[terry w]

Don't you feel bad at all George! I need a few diversions because it's all mental torture at the moment. You're all my friends - even if you do live in my computer, and I value you being around
I'll get some POET at some point - always wanted to at least try one or two!

Yes, I remember. Sophies is rear right leg right above the knee joint - any higher and the vet would do a limb save (like Noel Fitzpatrick does by taking out the diseased part and replacing it - our vet uses a piece of rib). As it is, he can't remove it in any way other than the whole leg.
Ours seems to think she's fit & well enough to cope with it - says he wouldn't have given it as an option to us otherwise. I'm pretty sure she would cope too - but is it worth a traumatic major surgery for what may only be 4/5 months ..perhaps more, but perhaps less? These tumours are very aggressive and will have put out cells into her bloodstream, even though they aren't yet visible. Chemo. and radiation is just too much extra to put her through for very little in return apparently. Vet doesn't like radiation anyway ..can cause more problems than it helps.
I think of this big, beautiful girl having a leg removed at the hip and it's unbearable - husband thinks the same, and the lady who owns Sophie's cousin (and the breeder of our small one) had bad dreams about it last night - and she's pretty tough.

I do remember, and yesterday I thought we'd do just that. But, already she's discovered that the treats contain a very nasty tasting capsule, and she got one stuck on the roof of her mouth this morning. We just had a tough hour trying to get another dose of two capsules into her: cheese, sausage, pate - nope. I think she can smell it now. I tried putting it down her throat three times and managed to finally do it, but can't bring myself to do it again. Not fair and she looked quite shocked - never done anything like that with her before.
Just phoned the vets and they don't have anything in liquid form - I can give her the Metacam in the syringe no problem, so thought a liquid morph. may be available for dogs - seems not. We could go and get an injection that will last some hours, so we'll see if I can get her to take any more tonight ....don't think this is going to be a good route to go down, and if we did decide on just painkillers, the pain would progressively increase and she'd need more & more medication - what if that leg snaps (which it would eventually) but if it's weekend, we'd finish up with a strange vet, and that's not good.

She's slower and a bit dozy with the drug too, so apart from the odd spurt when someone arrives, she's rather quiet. I wouldn't dare let her run in the garden either - she's perhaps 38kg, so pretty heavy to bounce around on a weakened bone.

We see the vet tomorrow afternoon, and will decide then probably. Just so hard.

Good for you!

NT made a cherry one once to go with a cheesecake they did (had a choice of fruits to buy with it) The cherry one took some time to fully steep. If yours doesn't get a fuller flavour eventually, add a bit of strawberry or raspberry concentrate to it!

Well whatever you decide, i know it will be the best choice for you all Trish Just promise me you`ll give Sophie a nice big hug and kisses from me

 

[Pictor]

Well whatever you decide, i know it will be the best choice for you all Trish Just promise me you`ll give Sophie a nice big hug and kisses from me

Of course! - just did so when I read that!
No option is going to be easy - she still looks, and until yesterday, still behaved, like a younger dog. Totally wonderful nature and so very gentle. We're really quite heartbroken about it all.
We will make the right decision, but it'll no doubt always feel like the wrong one. Can't win really. What I do know is that there's no way we'll allow her to become overly drugged or in any pain.

Thanks Terry.

 

[terry w]

Of course! - just did so when I read that!
No option is going to be easy - she still looks, and until yesterday, still behaved, like a younger dog. Totally wonderful nature and so very gentle. We're really quite heartbroken about it all.
We will make the right decision, but it'll no doubt always feel like the wrong one. Can't win really. What I do know is that there's no way we'll allow her to become overly drugged or in any pain.

Thanks Terry.

I really feel all your pain Trish, and you are perfectly right with your observation

 

[Pictor]

I really feel all your pain Trish, and you are perfectly right with your observation

Thanks Terry.

 

[terry w]

Thanks Terry.

We had panic stations last night with our Maya ! She was chewing the last bit of a beef rib bone, and went to the back of the settee with it. Next minute she comes running out, really pawing at her face with her mouth wide open.
I looked in her mouth but could`t see anything, so i lifted her back legs up, with her front legs still on the floor, and really give her back some hard slaps ! Still nothing, and now i was starting to flap a bit, as i thought it was stuck in her throat.
So i stuck my fingers in her mouth aiming for her throat, and i felt the bone ! It was stuck to the roof of her mouth between either side of her teeth [emoji23]
Luckily, there was a gap between the bone and roof of her mouth, so i could get 2 fingers between, and pulled it out, but bloody hell, it was a scary minute or two !! No more of them sorts of bones from now on, and i will stick with giving her big Knuckle bones

 

[Pictor]

We had panic stations last night with our Maya ! She was chewing the last bit of a beef rib bone, and went to the back of the settee with it. Next minute she comes running out, really pawing at her face with her mouth wide open.
I looked in her mouth but could`t see anything, so i lifted her back legs up, with her front legs still on the floor, and really give her back some hard slaps ! Still nothing, and now i was starting to flap a bit, as i thought it was stuck in her throat.
So i stuck my fingers in her mouth aiming for her throat, and i felt the bone ! It was stuck to the roof of her mouth between either side of her teeth [emoji23]
Luckily, there was a gap between the bone and roof of her mouth, so i could get 2 fingers between, and pulled it out, but bloody hell, it was a scary minute or two !! No more of them sorts of bones from now on, and i will stick with giving her big Knuckle bones

Oh my! I can easily imagine your rising panic whilst trying hard to remain calm! It's a fairly common place for something to get stuck in a dogs mouth, but with a bone, the biggest fear is having it stuck in her throat or further down.
So glad you sorted that one out fairly easily!
We once had a dog get a bone stuck in the same place as Maya, and someone we know had a smallish piece of sharp bone cut the throat tissue of their dog and lodge itself there - we stopped giving bones to our dogs at that point, and get some really hard baked biscuit chews to keep their teeth clean. Never as satisfying as a bone, but far safer in most cases

______________________________________________________________________________

Neither of us slept last night, and we didn't eat either.
We went to the vets late afternoon, and honestly expected to come home without her. The vet squeezed the site of the tumour really hard and she just gave him a 'look' - no yelp, growl or sign of extreme pain.
He decided that it's not bad enough to justify letting her go today, and assured us that continuing with meds as long as she's happy is the thing to do for now. We've got some new tablets and hopefully she'll tolerate them better than the Tram.

So, not a true solution, but a happy compromise for now - and we're all fine with that No-one knows how long this will last, but she'll be monitored carefully. I'm already feeling better - dead on my feet, but not as bad as earlier

 

[Bobw1951]

Oh my! I can easily imagine your rising panic whilst trying hard to remain calm! It's a fairly common place for something to get stuck in a dogs mouth, but with a bone, the biggest fear is having it stuck in her throat or further down.
So glad you sorted that one out fairly easily!
We once had a dog get a bone stuck in the same place as Maya, and someone we know had a smallish piece of sharp bone cut the throat tissue of their dog and lodge itself there - we stopped giving bones to our dogs at that point, and get some really hard baked biscuit chews to keep their teeth clean. Never as satisfying as a bone, but far safer in most cases

______________________________________________________________________________

Neither of us slept last night, and we didn't eat either.
We went to the vets late afternoon, and honestly expected to come home without her. The vet squeezed the site of the tumour really hard and she just gave him a 'look' - no yelp, growl or sign of extreme pain.
He decided that it's not bad enough to justify letting her go today, and assured us that continuing with meds as long as she's happy is the thing to do for now. We've got some new tablets and hopefully she'll tolerate them better than the Tram.

So, not a true solution, but a happy compromise for now - and we're all fine with that No-one knows how long this will last, but she'll be monitored carefully. I'm already feeling better - dead on my feet, but not as bad as earlier

I'm sure Sophie will soon tell you if she is in pain, but it sounds like it is not quite as bad as you thought, hopefully she will keep you company for quite a while yet.

 

[terry w]

Oh my! I can easily imagine your rising panic whilst trying hard to remain calm! It's a fairly common place for something to get stuck in a dogs mouth, but with a bone, the biggest fear is having it stuck in her throat or further down.
So glad you sorted that one out fairly easily!
We once had a dog get a bone stuck in the same place as Maya, and someone we know had a smallish piece of sharp bone cut the throat tissue of their dog and lodge itself there - we stopped giving bones to our dogs at that point, and get some really hard baked biscuit chews to keep their teeth clean. Never as satisfying as a bone, but far safer in most cases

______________________________________________________________________________

Neither of us slept last night, and we didn't eat either.
We went to the vets late afternoon, and honestly expected to come home without her. The vet squeezed the site of the tumour really hard and she just gave him a 'look' - no yelp, growl or sign of extreme pain.
He decided that it's not bad enough to justify letting her go today, and assured us that continuing with meds as long as she's happy is the thing to do for now. We've got some new tablets and hopefully she'll tolerate them better than the Tram.

So, not a true solution, but a happy compromise for now - and we're all fine with that No-one knows how long this will last, but she'll be monitored carefully. I'm already feeling better - dead on my feet, but not as bad as earlier

I am so pleased you will have Sophie around you for more time Trish, and hopefully a long time too

 

[terry w]

Here she is now, After a long day on the fields and in the woods. [emoji23]

 

[Marcus1970]

Still loving the cleito

Juicemail :

South Coast Vapes..
Nipplejuice x 2
Calicustard
GodYog
Cookie Monster.

Have you tried GodYog yet George

 

[Pictor]

I'm sure Sophie will soon tell you if she is in pain, but it sounds like it is not quite as bad as you thought, hopefully she will keep you company for quite a while yet.

I think the Tram. was making her seem more lethargic and distant. Once she'd found one in a piece of cheese and had the foul tasting thing dissolve on the roof of her mouth, it became difficult to get her to swallow them, so she only had one at 9am this morning and she'd had no more until we'd been to the vet this afternoon - by that time, she was much brighter and happy, which was lucky in a way because the vet could easily tell that the pain wasn't too intense yet. He has no idea how rapidly it will progress, so close monitoring is the best way for now. The longer the better!

We have some different tablets now - but it doesn't seem to be any easier to get her to take them ...she's suspicious of all tablets & capsules now! Tried pate, two cheeses, little sausages, cake ....husband is going to crush them and put them in some nutty fruit cereal in the morning ..she likes that, so it may work.

I am so pleased you will have Sophie around you for more time Trish, and hopefully a long time too

Thanks. We've felt much better this evening - I'm very tired because we've had a few really bad nights worrying about what to do, and hadn't eaten much either.
She's fast asleep and looks pretty content, so think it's bed time for me too.

Here she is now, After a long day on the fields and in the woods. [emoji23]

Brilliant! That looks like a contented girl! With luck, I may sleep as soundly for some hours now!