FDA and e-cigarettes: Your action needed now.

[RosaJ]

Three days left, bumpidibumpup.

 

[john333]

as of last nite at 11:59pm the number of comments received was 1,428. i wish it were 10 times that. we need more participation.

 

[bsidb]

Just left my 2cents, didnt see a comments counter

 

[dezyner]

I certainly agree with most of that, but I'm not clear on what you are saying we SHOULD do.

They may not care about doing the right thing, and we may not have the money to pay them for what we want...
But with our passion we can show them that we have another kind of power, and we intend to use it.

The last thing they want to see is the media running stories on how millions of ex-smokers went back to smoking...
And they certainly don't want to look like a bunch of heartless mercenaries willing to sacrifice our lives.

what we should do is be prepared to be taxed, heavily. they will treat this just like they do cigarettes, they will rely on us for the heaviest tax burden, and a constant revenue stream. somebody somewhere thought it was a good idea to lump these devices and liquids in with tobacco. now that the correlation has been drawn, just plan on paying HUGE taxes on this.

If they are willing to let a product be sold that they know kills you, just for the tax money, do you really believe that the headline of ex smokers smoking again will matter at all? They already don't care about smoker's deaths, that's pretty clear.

All I am saying is if they aren't getting taxes, they will find a way. just know that eventually, there is going to be a point that the taxes on this stuff meet or exceed the taxes on analogs.

 

[DC2]

Nevermind...

 

[armchairnomad]

Thank you for including your post. I did a word count on it - it's 2567. Can you repost limited your characters (not words) to just under 2000. Perhaps then it won't be discarded. Thanks -- a fellow e-cig user.

It won't be discarded...if it's more than 2000 characters the text box literally doesn't let you type anymore, so I included mine in a file like the site lets you.

 

[toronero]

fda sees a chance to make money so they will. they always want to ruin a good thing as usual. i will do this little survey thing but it really won't matter how many people fight it, the fda will do what it wants

 

[grandmato5]

You are absolutely right dezyner, our ecigs will likely one day be heavily taxed BUT if we don't stand up now against the coming FDA deeming order and regulations for ecigs there will be very little in the ecig world to tax because the FDA has it within their power to decimate the industry as we know it now with their coming deeming order and regulations. Previous history of the FDA and ecigs would indicate that is what they are most likely to attempt to do. Can we stop it ? Maybe not, but it's guaranteed that if we don't do everything in our power to attempt to stop it they will decimate the industry and the issue of taxing our ecigs will be mute.

There is no doubt in my mind that whatever the final outcome we are not going to like it. BUT there could be an outcome we don't like but could live with if we had to. If that outcome meant that down the road we had to accept high taxes on our ecigs that would'nt be nearly as difficult as facing an outcome that means millions of people may not have the chance to quit smoking or stay quit with a harm reduction device that WE KNOW works.

I dont know a single person that wanted our ecigs to be considered to be a tobacco product and all that could come with that designation BUT the alternatives at the time were only one of two things, ecigs would be considered only a drug device or a tobacco device. IF the FDA was allowed to call them drug devices then the FDA was going to shut the entire industry down. Judge Leon's ruling to consider them a tobacco product allowed our ecigs to continue to be available to us as an alternative to smoking cigarettes. With the time given us by Judge Leon's ruling there have been many advances in our ecig world that mean for many of us we will continue to vape no matter what the FDA does BUT we aren't the people that still have yet to start vaping and there are still many among us that for whatever their reason won't or can't DIY whatever they need to continue to vape and those are the people we need to be fighting for IMO. No, of coarse I don't wish to pay high taxes on ecig products and at some time in the future IF there is enough of the ecig industry left to tax we will face that battle but that's not the battle we are fighting today.

 

[Miss Chris]

I posted a comment, now to go join CASAA!! Thanks for the info.

Your Comment Tracking Number: 1jx-833d-4t24

 

[dezyner]

I dont know a single person that wanted our ecigs to be considered to be a tobacco product and all that could come with that designation BUT the alternatives at the time were only one of two things, ecigs would be considered only a drug device or a tobacco device. IF the FDA was allowed to call them drug devices then the FDA was going to shut the entire industry down. Judge Leon's ruling to consider them a tobacco product allowed our ecigs to continue to be available to us as an alternative to smoking cigarettes. With the time given us by Judge Leon's ruling there have been many advances in our ecig world that mean for many of us we will continue to vape no matter what the FDA does BUT we aren't the people that still have yet to start vaping and there are still many among us that for whatever their reason won't or can't DIY whatever they need to continue to vape and those are the people we need to be fighting for IMO. No, of coarse I don't wish to pay high taxes on ecig products and at some time in the future IF there is enough of the ecig industry left to tax we will face that battle but that's not the battle we are fighting today.

the problem I have with the tobacco designation was it was short sighted, to win the "battle of the day", or buy more time. Would have been better to make the actual argument about the facts, not semantics. It bought time, but locked everyone into the designation causing the problem and argument with the FDA today.

So if the same thing transpires today, with "the battle we are fighting today", you may find winning these battles actually loses the war long term. If you make arguments today, and then down the road have to address new issues raised by those winning arguments, was it really progress, or did it just stall?

The FDA isn't doing these hearings for "health's sake", they are setting up the playing board, shouldn't we at least be thinking 4 or 5 moves ahead, instead of worrying about their opening gambit?

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

Thanks everyone, count me in.

 

[CES]

the problem I have with the tobacco designation was it was short sighted, to win the "battle of the day", or buy more time. Would have been better to make the actual argument about the facts, not semantics. It bought time, but locked everyone into the designation causing the problem and argument with the FDA today.

So if the same thing transpires today, with "the battle we are fighting today", you may find winning these battles actually loses the war long term. If you make arguments today, and then down the road have to address new issues raised by those winning arguments, was it really progress, or did it just stall?

The FDA isn't doing these hearings for "health's sake", they are setting up the playing board, shouldn't we at least be thinking 4 or 5 moves ahead, instead of worrying about their opening gambit?

That first "short term battle" allowed us to continue to fight the war, and to get a start on the research that has the potential to actually win the war. If the FDA had won in that first round it would likely be over.

Yes, we do need to get ahead of the game, and one way to do that is to get a coherent cohesive whole, and fight these little battles as they come up. I don't know if together our voices are strong enough, and i know that i get tired of fighting the same battles. There are many people on the front lines who write, comment, track the news, and make themselves heard on a daily basis. And it's begining to make a difference.

The other issue is money- and the biggest stumbling block is the money that pharmaceutical companies have invested in and make from NRTs. So, if you have some great ideas for moves down the road, PLEASE join CASAA and help us/them figure out those moves.

In the meantime, if people don't comment and don't educate others, then we don't have a chance.

 

[dezyner]

That first "short term battle" allowed us to continue to fight the war, and to get a start on the research that has the potential to actually win the war. If the FDA had won in that first round it would likely be over.

Yes, we do need to get ahead of the game, and one way to do that is to get a coherent cohesive whole, and fight these little battles as they come up. I don't know if together our voices are strong enough, and i know that i get tired of fighting the same battles. There are many people on the front lines who write, comment, track the news, and make themselves heard on a daily basis. And it's begining to make a difference.

The other issue is money- and the biggest stumbling block is the money that pharmaceutical companies have invested in and make from NRTs. So, if you have some great ideas for moves down the road, PLEASE join CASAA and help us/them figure out those moves.

In the meantime, if people don't comment and don't educate others, then we don't have a chance.

I left a comment online to the FDA where asked to before the hearing. that's no problem. I think you are confusing the money issue, which is what this will all boil down to. The FDA and the government are the ones who stand to lose the most, by a huge percentage, not pharms. The FDA and regulations are hurdles being placed in order to ensure taxes can and will be collected, not to divert money to the pharm companies. NRT's are not long term. pretty sure big pharm companies are doing just fine without the NRT money. Pleanty of ......, vicodin and lipitor money out there, not to mention the anti-depressants. The FDA is being used, no doubt, but if you follow the money, it all leads back to tax collection. That's who makes the most, or loses the most, the tax man. If you still think that the pharms are the big loser, ask yourself how much tax money will the government get from NRT's.

 

[victorcan]

Just an odd off comparison watch the video..

F2C2012: Aaron Swartz keynote - "How we stopped SOPA" - YouTube

sadly he was found dead in his apartment.. but he fought.. You will be missed Aaron Swartz , you will be dearly missed..

 

[TheShadowInc]

hmm scientific proof will it help? I am canadian and not sure if I can have an imput but this site might help, its a report done by a doctor at a university that actually tested e liquid and found no cancer causing agents in it, not only e liquid but also name brand cigs he tested too and shows NNN, NNK etc and give a good visual site on why gum, and the patch don't really work that well.....
Nitrosamine Levels - Smoke versus Vapor
its something that will help, if you want to challenge the FDA you need proof and above might help with that

 

[Plumes.91]

Posting in here to hopefully bump this in my watched threads. Nitrosamine Levels? I was under the impression that cigarettes and other things give you cancer because they contain irritants and cancer causing carcinogens. Our e-cigs might contain carcinogens but its not from the juice. Maybe from a burning wick but, the wick shouldn't be burning if your using the e-cig correctly. It doesn't burn on its own. only if you hold down the button for a minute and a half

 

[aubergine]

Done. 1jx-833l-hggl

 

[aubergine]

And this is just unproductive venting, but I'm so intensely, furiously, numbingly ....... This is my 3 year vaping anniversary, after 40 damned years of chain-smoking, and for me as for everyone else in here who smoked heavily ecigs have been such a beautiful, delicious, wonderful, huge life changer.

The old miserable obsessive smoking quitting stinking sick starting quitting coughing panting hacking quitting craving starting struggling ugly damned merry-go-round is so far in my past that I'd almost forgotten it.
I can't stand the thought of that stupid struggle again. That whole ....load. Ugh ugh ugh.

Those incompetent, corrupt, self-righteous, dishonest, moronic creeps .
I am so tired of their endless grinding determination to ruin this very good thing.

We'd better get some good undergrounds going, too, because damned if I'll vape scented-spit-flavored all-PG juice in a sealed crap cartridge on a crap batt from WalMart that looks like a hateful plastic cigarette, either.

I just wrote my civil sane little thing and submitted it to the circumlocution office and got my little number.
Now I need to go kick something, go to the DUMP and shoot RATS or, or...

Well.
Here's this lovely glass bottle of just-right-steeped favorite juice, ah, with such a nice elegant handmade label from a sweet and skilled vendor with whom I can converse on the phone, and with just the right pg-vg balance and strength per request, and my excellent favorite gear (it's been so nice to watch the gear evolve, yes? so brilliant and creative are humans!) and ah, it's really excellent, so maybe just kick back and vape and read for a while,
and jeez I will GRIEVE this when they start messing with it. I can't even think of them banning it.

I am really into vaping.
We ALL are, seems like.
Sigh.

 

[Fishin' Cricket]

I'm sorry I haven't kept up and done my part folks, I was able to walk away from ecigs too and it was too hard to visit the forum and talk about them without wanting to "smoke" one. But not anymore, so here I is and here's my comment to the Feds:


From 1995 until the year 2010 I was a steady pack and a half a day smoker. From 2007 to 2010 I made several attempts to quit using various techniques, nothing worked! I missed having that smoke in my hand and I was hopelessly addicted to nicotine.

The times that I was briefly able to "quit" I was a ticking time bomb, so to speak.. Two or three weeks of torturing my family and friends with my poor attitude, constantly craving that thing in my hand, in my lips, that's all it would take and the wife would literally beg me to smoke a cig and chill out. It angers me even now, years later, to remember being so drawn to something so useless! How much obnoxiousness (and disgusting-ness) did I put my family through, and for what?

Then I found e-cigs! I had to order them from overseas at first, but then I found vapor4life and was able to get them "locally". I picked up an ecig and never looked back! Quite literally, there were 7 Camel Lights left in the pack when my ecig arrived.. That was 2/2/10. I found those 7 smokes months later and had zero problem with discarding them!

Using the option of a lower dose of nicotine I was able to stage myself down slowly to an ecig with no nicotine! That was 2/2/11
It was super easy too, with pretty much zero side effects! And with several flavors to chose from and an assortment of vaporizers that no longer resembled a cigarette (once I was comfortable, step by step) I was easily able (sans nicotine) to memtally separate this process from actual cigarettes as well as to separate the nicotine addiction from the "hand to mouth" addiction and tackle them both!

By 2/2/12 I had walked away from the ecig altogether, and I have never been more proud of myself.


Please, do not increase the price and reduce accessibility of these products

please remove text from government web sites that are inaccurate and/or misleading.


Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Cricket Everett Lennon Staggs

 

[Plumes.91]

That was a great letter Everette, thank you for your contribution. Thats exactly what we need the FDA to consider. They are NOT the monsters some of us make them out to be. They have internal thoughts and hearts just like we do. Are they working in the interests of others? Maybe sometimes. But they have hearts and minds and that is exactly what I hope they'll see and consider. We are people that want to stop killing ourselves.