FDA FDA announces E-Cigarette workshop (DEC 2014)

[Kent C]

Just in case someone missed it, Bill's last thoughts/post on "The lawyers at FDA know their deeming regulation is very likely to face legal challenges" is supported by this thread at:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...comments-fda-opposing-deeming-regulation.html

I think you (Bill) nailed it and Kent's point is also very interesting. My own "rub your crystal ball" is that a very very very small number of "tokens" may present but the majority will say exactly what the FDA wants them to say. Period! I hope I'm wrong but that's the way I see it.

With respect to the "public comment". That's a one hour time slot for everyone. Held the next day! A "dog and pony show" IMHO. Again, I'm very cynical and hope I'm wrong.

In one sense, I hope you're right IF it is obvious that they 'packed the court' with only anti-ecig views, that is something where all the studies by Burstyn, Dr. F, et. al. could be shown in court, that the FDA disregarded objective science, and could be the end of Zeller's rule at the Center for tobacco Control.

That said, it is still likely that we'll get the WHO's (not world health organization "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss" scenario. And while we, here at ECF, 'Won't be fooled again', many of the low information voters 'Can't Explain'.

 

[DC2]

That said, it is still likely that we'll get the WHO's (not world health organization "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss" scenario. And while we, here at ECF, 'Won't be fooled again', many of the low information voters 'Can't Explain'.

Nice work there.

 

[DC2]

As the last few posts show, this is a war, and all the players have a strategy and a plan of attack.
The real problem is that we don't have enough of the public, let alone vapers, who understand what we face.

And every time I see people refer to the few of us who do understand as "paranoid" I realize how far we have yet to go.

It's not paranoid in the least, given that they ARE out to get us.
And it's not some conspiracy theory that requires a tinfoil hat, it's just how the world works.

 

[csardaz]

Someone mentioned that they are taking nominations for presenters/panelists. Is that useful at all? Would they actually pay attention to that? Would nominations from members of the public matter? Or just from those with scientific or industry credentials? Could that get someone promoted from attendee/commentator to ... a spot thats less easily ignored?

I expect its a three-way with your Effectively-Ban people, Your highly-regulate closed-systems BAn-my-compeTition folk, and your Open system light touch people.

Is there anything we can do to make sure the third group gets represented and heard?

Sounds like it will be webcast live, but if you miss some you need to wait for a written transcript? Why not a video transcript or is that just so normal now that they didn't mention it? Whats the best way to record a webcast?

 

[Nate760]

The lawyers at FDA know their deeming regulation is very likely to face legal challenges in federal court that (among other things) will correctly claim that FDA grossly misrepresented the scientific evidence on e-cigs in its proposed deeming regulation (and for the past five and half years).

By telling the court that it held a Public Workshop on the scientific evidence of e-cigs, and by showing the court the FDA's grossly distorted interpretation of the workshop (which of course will conclude that e-cigs pose a major public health threat especially for children, and must be regulated by the FDA to protect children and public health), the FDA hopes to survive a legal challenge (at least on the issue of scientific evidence).

As much as I'm no great fan of Justice Scalia's sociopolitical worldview, I would love the opportunity to see him question the government's lawyers if this issue ever reached the SCOTUS. If anyone can be relied on to make the FDA explain the massive, gaping chasm of disparity between its policy toward Big Pharma nicotine products and non-Big Pharma nicotine products, it would be Scalia.

 

[Kent C]

As much as I'm no great fan of Justice Scalia's sociopolitical worldview, I would love the opportunity to see him question the government's lawyers if this issue ever reached the SCOTUS. If anyone can be relied on to make the FDA explain the massive, gaping chasm of disparity between its policy toward Big Pharma nicotine products and non-Big Pharma nicotine products, it would be Scalia.

You're right - in Scalia would eat them for breakfast - (and I'm a big fan of his worldview - although Clarence Thomas is closer) but.... they likely won't get past Judge Leon.... if he's consistent.

 

[DC2]

Someone mentioned that they are taking nominations for presenters/panelists. Is that useful at all? Would they actually pay attention to that? Would nominations from members of the public matter? Or just from those with scientific or industry credentials? Could that get someone promoted from attendee/commentator to ... a spot thats less easily ignored?

I expect its a three-way with your Effectively-Ban people, Your highly-regulate closed-systems BAn-my-compeTition folk, and your Open system light touch people.

Is there anything we can do to make sure the third group gets represented and heard?

Sounds like it will be webcast live, but if you miss some you need to wait for a written transcript? Why not a video transcript or is that just so normal now that they didn't mention it? Whats the best way to record a webcast?

I'm assuming that this "workshop" could be important enough that we might even see a Call To Action if it is warranted.
And as to the meat of your questions, I hope that Bill Godshall, CASAA, and others who know how these things really work will provide some insight.

If this goes the way of other such "conferences" and "workshops" in the past, then it will probably be available to watch live.
Or at the very least, be available to watch after the fact.

This isn't our first rodeo.

 

[Kent C]

I'm assuming that this "workshop" could be important enough that we might even see a Call To Action if it is warranted.
And as to the meat of your questions, I hope that Bill Godshall, CASAA, and others who know how these things really work will provide some insight.

If this goes the way of other such "conferences" and "workshops" in the past, then it will probably be available to watch live.
Or at the very least, be available to watch after the fact.

This isn't our first rodeo.

Yippee Ki Yay!

And if 'goes the way of other such conferences' - no Bill, no CASAA... although I hope this one is different

 

[SeniorBoy]

You have to register to watch the Desk Killers webcast or make public comments to the Desk Murders. The "form" is not validated.

Go to:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CTP-December-Workshop

Use a "proxy" if your really "paranoid"

I should be able to record it for those that miss it and place it somewhere that you can watch the Desk Killers talk at your leasure

 

[JustJulie]

CASAA is planning on sending Dr. Igor Burstyn and Dr. Carl Phillips. Although we're hoping to have a seat on the dais, we won't know that for a while. We've also offered to help cover the costs for Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos if he decides to attend the meeting.

 

[zoiDman]

CASAA is planning on sending Dr. Igor Burstyn and Dr. Carl Phillips. Although we're hoping to have a seat on the dais, we won't know that for a while. We've also offered to help cover the costs for Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos if he decides to attend the meeting.

Cool.

Are any of the Other Presenters Known? Or is it still to Early.

 

[JustJulie]

Cool.

Are any of the Other Presenters Known? Or is it still to Early.

Still too early . . . applications to present don't close until 11/4.

 

[zoiDman]

Still too early . . . applications to present don't close until 11/4.

If any presenters are confirmed, please post their Names here.

Thank you.

 

[Kent C]

If any presenters are confirmed, please post their Names here.

Thank you.

Yes. Thank you! Watching this closely....

 

[Kent C]

Julie,

Donated.... and to the Drew Fund too Thanks for setting that up. Didn't see that earlier.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes. Thank you! Watching this closely....

I wish More/Everyone was.

 

[DrMA]

I wish More/Everyone was.

Yep.

Everyone watching this "Like" zoiDman's post above so we can get a rough count

 

[amoret]

After going to the FDA site to check this out (I found out from a ecigexpress newsletter) I did enjoy the opportunity to fill out a survey afterwards about what I thought of their web site (so-so) and my attitude towards the agency .

 

[DrMA]

Yep.

Everyone watching this "Like" zoiDman's post above so we can get a rough count

Yey! all of 16 people.

I am deeply saddened by the gross negligence a large proportion of vapers display thru their inaction. And I fear that, in absence of overwhelming support, the ANTZ, BT, BP, BG cabal will do away with vaping as they've planned all along. I'm tempted to some degree to drop all my advocacy efforts, withdraw into my well-stocked vape den, and marvel at the perverse massacre as Orwellian FDA regulation carpet-bombs vaping out of existence.

 

[Kent C]

Yey! all of 16 people.

I am deeply saddened by the gross negligence a large proportion of vapers display thru their inaction. And I fear that, in absence of overwhelming support, the ANTZ, BT, BP, BG cabal will do away with vaping as they've planned all along. I'm tempted to some degree to drop all my advocacy efforts, withdraw into my well-stocked vape den, and marvel at the perverse massacre as Orwellian FDA regulation carpet-bombs vaping out of existence.

I could be a reticence to 'liking'. Unfortunately wv2win is no longer around to 'like' the post.