FDA FDA approved flavours

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

Papa Lazarou inquired



If FDA issues a Final Rule (that is the same or similar to its proposed deeming regulation), >99.9% of e-cig products now on the market would be banned (including all bottles of flavored e-liquid and >95% of flavored cigalikes).

The only e-cig products that would be legally allowed to be sold would be those officially approved by FDA (and the FDA estimated that just 25 e-cig product applications will be submitted annually to the FDA). The most likely (and perhaps only) flavored e-cig products that would be submitted to the FDA would be Altria's MarkTen (tobacco flavor and menthol flavor), Reynolds' Vuse (tobacco flavor and menthol flavor) and Lorillard/Imperial blu (tobacco flavor and menthol flavored).

But since the FDA's proposed deeming regulation would ban >99% of all e-cig products now on the market (including all PVs and all bottles of e-liquid containing nicotine), and since the FDA has NOT proposed banning any flavorings for e-cigs, this thread is a nonsensical waste of everyone's time.

Wow....an ECF first:.
A thread that is a nonsensical waste of time

And a bit harsh since ,as I understand it, the Tobacco Act banned characterizing flavors in cigarettes and the FDA Deeming Regs claims authority by expanding the definition of "tobacco products" in the act to include e-cigarettes.

It's clear--from more than just the "grandfather" date- that the FDA is using the Tobacco Act as it's guide on other tobacco products, in other words, "when it doubt, treat it like a cigarette".

So assuming that some other vendor---other than Altria/RJR/Lorillard-- will be able to comply or will submit to the eventual FDA approval process what flavors will they be allowed to use? Will they have to license one of those 3 BT flavor recipes? If not, what flavors will they be allowed to submit?

For example : Is NJOY just gonna tuck tail and run? I don't think so.
So the FDA would allow NJOY's flavors in their cigalikes since they have NOT proposed banning any flavorings for e-cigs?

And since they have made NO proposals on flavors they have therefore not defined what makes up a tobacco "flavor".
Can a Virginia Flue Cured flavor still be a "tobacco flavor" if it has a little vanilla in it? Or hazelnut? Or coffee? Or Banana?
Is it still a Menthol if it has mint? Or Kiwi?

 

[caramel]

It's clear--from more than just the "grandfather" date- that the FDA is using the Tobacco Act as it's guide on other tobacco products, in other words, "when it doubt, treat it like a cigarette".

I suggest we could adopt a similar policy regarding any new taxes and regulations: "when in doubt, treat them like a fraud".

 

[skoony]

Thanks for making this clear.

We are talking about flavors. Let's say FDA and all local governments are as harsh as some thing they could be on flavors. Do you think flavors would be impossible to get from online sources?

if the FDA decides to ban flavors they will.
if the FDA decides to restrict nicotine sales
they will.
if the FDA decides to restrict PG and VG they
will.
the system is already in place.
they simply have to ban internet sales
and allow only point of sales requiring
a legal I.D.
i have complained in the past on how now
you have to present your I.D. when purchasing
prepaid credit cards or reloadit cards for them
your I.D is scanned into the register or no deal.
i have noticed that establishments that do not
have the newest registers no longer sell prepaid
cards only set amount gift cards.
so you see the system is already in place.

regards
mike

 

[caramel]

If flavors and stuff like nicotine/caffeine are bad, I submit they should ban them in candy and soft drinks too. Soft drinks are a gateway to liquors and alcoholism. Ban sales of soft drinks to under 18.

 

[Jman8]

If flavors and stuff like nicotine/caffeine are bad, I submit they should ban them in candy and soft drinks too. Soft drinks are a gateway to liquors and alcoholism. Ban sales of soft drinks to under 18.

Don't support their logic. They are likely to ban sales of soft drinks to people under (and over) 18 if they think they can get away with it.

 

[caramel]

Don't support their logic. They are likely to ban sales of soft drinks to people under (and over) 18 if they think they can get away with it.

Let them pi*s off as many people as possible. Until the pi*sed off become a critical mass and decide that the real problem are actually the zealots.

 

[Kent C]

Let them pi*s off as many people as possible. Until the pi*sed off become a critical mass and decide that the real problem are actually the zealots.

That doesn't work.... see 'Paris'. Some media and their ilk are still apologists for the zealots there. No intent to start a discussion on that - just to show how 'po'ing' many people, doesn't work that well even when the situation is worse than mere flavoring.

 

[caramel]

That doesn't work.... see 'Paris'. Some media and their ilk are still apologists for the zealots there. No intent to start a discussion on that - just to show how 'po'ing' many people, doesn't work that well even when the situation is worse than mere flavoring.

That's a different story and I'm not going there outside the "Lounge" section.

Let's look at our problem. Like smokers, we're members of a minority to which the majority doesn't relate in any way. We're ostracized in the main media as suicidal addicted toxic weirdos and the majority wants to keep "the children" safe and away from us. Since the zealots got the majority on their side, it doesn't matter what we say or do. They'll pass all the regulations they want.

However. If you can relate to the majority ("hey guys we're in the same situation, these people are after everything from soft drinks to candy and vapes, they are just crazy, together we can fight them") then and only then you have a chance to win the fight.

 

[caramel]

P.S. Imagine airing some rumors about "only menthol flavors will be approved in soft drinks". With the mental image of a healthy, delicious boiled not grilled burger with a cup of menthol-cola!!!!!

 

[Kent C]

caramel:That's a different story and I'm not going there outside the "Lounge" section.

sigh... no intent or desire to go there... as stated. See my other post on 'mechanics' (or conceptual aspect) of the situation not the situation itself. The concept is the same even though the concrete manifestation is different.

Let's look at our problem. Like smokers, we're members of a minority to which the majority doesn't relate in any way. We're ostracized in the main media as suicidal addicted toxic weirdos and the majority wants to keep "the children" safe and away from us. Since the zealots got the majority on their side, it doesn't matter what we say or do. They'll pass all the regulations they want.

However. If you can relate to the majority ("hey guys we're in the same situation, these people are after everything from soft drinks to candy and vapes, they are just crazy, together we can fight them") then and only then you have a chance to win the fight.

Well, that 'could' work, but again if the "'they came for the catholics' slippery slope warning" actually worked. There wouldn't be certain countries who are still trying to eliminate off the face of the earth a whole ethnic minority. Unfortunately, our country (and yours) is not moving away from that type of governing - in fact it's moving toward it although the 'minorities' are different groups. But the same tactics used 'then' is being used now for smokers and vapers - ridicule, then demonize, make them less the human, separate them physically and mentally from others and basically from their perspective and actions - 'let them die' or do things that kill them - hence the 'desk murders' tag, you'll see around here.

 

[Lori Brown]

We would just buy our own flavor to treat our juices... It's food flavor! When has anyone seen a "fat-cat" politician push away good food flavor from their own mouth? "Medicinal" will be the new word used to buy large quantities of flavor. Lord help us all!

 

[caramel]

This is all OK with them though:

How Much Rodent Filth Does the FDA Allow? | Mental Floss

 

[CloudOfAries]

I understand they are trying to regulate things a whole lot and remove a lot of different aspects or tools from VAPING but I definitely think it will be an uphill battle for them . I say this because ... if you are to make claims that flavoured e liquid is appealing to kids ... we easily have the argument that flavoured booze such as grape vodka and honey whiskey etc. are appealing to kids if this is the case ... there are also candy flavoured vodka ... the candies kids eat . Where does the logic lie .. at what point does an argument become a desperate reach for control .. so then is flavoured lube an attraction for young kids to have sex at an early age ? is flavoured coffee the same ? coffee can be dangerous for young children also ....you can really take anything and turn it into ammunition with the right motivation . I believe that they should stick with what makes sense which is .. do not sell to minors , advertise the potential harms and ingredients .. leave the discretion up to the business owners who accepts vapers and who doesn't agree with it . I think this is more than enough regulation to where like anything else it is left up to the adult to choose their lifestyle especially with the obvious knowledge it is a much safer and much healthier alternative to smoking where many of us were trapped doing years ago . They have candy coated advil ... is this going to encourage kids to pop tons of it because it tastes good and put them in the hospital ? its silly ... its up to the parents and adults to be responsible and up to the business owners to control the sale of it safely with warnings . Almost everything is flavoured now a days even cough medicine which can be fatal so really ? leave us alone .... but that is why we must sign petitions and help fight and be heard ... this is just my opinion maybe I am out of hand who knows .

VAPESAFE
Aries

 

[DC2]

... this is just my opinion maybe I am out of hand who knows.

You're not even remotely out of hand...
You're just being too logical.

 

[kkay59]

I think if kids want to vape, they will. They managed to smoke, even though it was against the law for them to do it. This is totally up to parents, to control their children. I am an adult. If I want cherry, cinnamon, watermelon, cocoa puffs, that should be fully okay. I should not have to worry about the government intervening in what flavor I want. If they want to test juices, or apv devices for safety, more power to them. But I am well above 21. I don't need them telling me I can't have a flavor, because it MIGHT entice some kid. Kids like to mimic what adults do. It makes them feel grown up. They want to be cool. They want to be like their peers.

If I want to choose a path that is much better for my health, don't get in my way. If the government/scientists want to learn about vaping, or vapers, they should come here and learn. Big tobacco has really ticked me off lately. I am on a mission to try my hardest never to give them a penny of my money, ever again. If they make vaping so expensive, and problematic, I just may start smoking a pipe. I just may start growing my own tobacco for personal use. Then I can smoke it, or vape it. Prohibition didn't work. The war on drugs didn't work. This isn't going to benefit society either. People have had enough with micro management by the nanny state folks. I am over 50 years old. If I want cinnamon cream bon bons to vape, let me have it.

There are a lot of things you could be doing that is much worse for your health. Where there is a will, there is a way. You think they would have learned that by now. They are all into taxation, and seeing how much more they can squeeze us, and control us. I don't need their nudge mindset. They have enough irons in the fire already. Anything they touch seems to go downhill from there on out. Unintended consequences will pop up. They can't just state the truth, and let people make up their own minds. I am struggling as it is, because the value of my money has gone down drastically because of their tinkering. It isn't going to get better, the more they decide they have to act. People have gone above and beyond, to compromise. The politically correct, and politicians still don't get it. They never will. I compromised on a lot of things. But I am frankly fed up. I have been vaping for 2.5 months. I have spent a fortune to try to shake cigarettes. Now don't tell me I can't have, or use the stuff I bought. Enough is enough already. I am finally doing fine, and I'm off cigarettes. That should make them happy, but that isn't good enough. Now that they want us in a national health care system, it will get worse. They come after the smokers first. Then it will be the overweight folks. It won't end there. You aren't eating the right foods. You aren't exercising enough. You aren't tolerant enough. 4 additional words come to mind. Thank you Clint Eastwood.

Get off my lawn. (Gran Torino)

 

[RobertNC]

Assume what you can reasonably expect. It is just a matter of time. The feds are gonna reg the .... out of it and there is essentially little you can do other than try to be prepared. Learn to mix your own - food flavorings are not going anywhere. Stock up on nicotine. I'll probably stock a few liters of standard and a few liters of super high grade. For my reasonable life expectancy that is an absurd amount of nicotine - I'll presumably will the remainder to another lister Leothwyn. Learn how to recoil tanks. Learn how to rebuild devices. etc etc

 

[skoony]

Assume what you can reasonably expect. It is just a matter of time. The feds are gonna reg the .... out of it and there is essentially little you can do other than try to be prepared. Learn to mix your own - food flavorings are not going anywhere. Stock up on nicotine. I'll probably stock a few liters of standard and a few liters of super high grade. For my reasonable life expectancy that is an absurd amount of nicotine - I'll presumably will the remainder to another lister Leothwyn. Learn how to recoil tanks. Learn how to rebuild devices. etc etc

stock up on everything. nic,flavorings,PG/VG and
coloring's if you use them,wicks/coils/batteries
the FDA is not going to leave any bases uncovered. just like sudufed
point of purchase sales with valid I.D. only and
with the stipulation you are not using these things
to make contraband items.
this is a worse case scenario but very possible.
regards
mike

 

[RobertNC]

Pseudoephedrine was a lot different. It was a known methamphetamine precursor as far back as the 1920s at least, and it got no attention until the .... epidemic got out of control and then only after ephedrine had already been regulated, and that is all really DEA, FDA has nothing to do with the sudafed sales restrictions.

Vanilla,etc in PG is not subject to diversion. FDA already regulate food grade ingredients so they really cannot further regulate food grade flavorings except for possibly "tobacco" flavors and even those are kind of a cluster-.... for FDA if they are already FDA Food Grade approved.

I would say be prepared for everything else, and assume that food grade flavors will continue to be available with nothing more than a disclaimer of "for approved food use only" etc. ECX for example will have to rebrand and change domain names, but except for no more nicotine (they already carry little hardware) and content revision they can continue to operate pretty much otherwise unaffected.

As long as there is still a demand that is ...

 

[skoony]

Pseudoephedrine was a lot different. It was a known methamphetamine precursor as far back as the 1920s at least, and it got no attention until the .... epidemic got out of control and then only after ephedrine had already been regulated, and that is all really DEA, FDA has nothing to do with the sudafed sales restrictions.

Vanilla,etc in PG is not subject to diversion. FDA already regulate food grade ingredients so they really cannot further regulate food grade flavorings except for possibly "tobacco" flavors and even those are kind of a cluster-.... for FDA if they are already FDA Food Grade approved.

I would say be prepared for everything else, and assume that food grade flavors will continue to be available with nothing more than a disclaimer of "for approved food use only" etc. ECX for example will have to rebrand and change domain names, but except for no more nicotine (they already carry little hardware) and content revision they can continue to operate pretty much otherwise unaffected.

As long as there is still a demand that is ...

they don't have to regulate the substances or hardware.
they can regulate their uses.
regards
mike

 

[mosspa]

Impossible to ban flavors. Worse case you get unflavored juice and add your own flavoring. Their will just be more flavor companies opening so we can flavor our tap water. LOL

Precisely, and that's what makes this a non-issue in the greater sense. If one of the main purposes of these collective forums is to promote e-cigs as a healthier alternative to cigarettes, then taking such a minor hit should be little more than distracting. I, personally, wouldn't buy pre-flavored juice, because I'd never really trust what was in the flavorings. I've only been at this for several weeks now, and already, I've accumulated enough information on the constituents of flavored e-juice that I would never consider buying it again. I mean, who has the audacity to claim that inhaling sucralose or stevia vapor is benign, as it has never been even looked at, much less studied, in a harm context. I'm very much for strict labling guidlines in this area. Caveat emptor!