Fda crackdown looms

[Lorddrek]

Ok now that everyone is starting to get rightfully worried about the future of E-Cigs we can do something. Sorry my prior post confused a few folks who seem a bit defensive. All I was trying to do is point out reasons why the FDA and other parties would be concerned.

The truth is not enough is known and even though we feel we have enough experience with vaporizing to draw our own conclusions Joe Public is far from done with us. Things like secondary vapor will have to be proven less harmful than a fart before it will be accepted by non smokers. They have pushed smokers into such a small corner why on earth would they stop now?

Some in this thread have asked for and others have offered suggestions of what to do. Writing letters to our lawmakers is a common first step and I think most here are aware of this. A generic form letter with some fill in the blanks would go a long way and I think this would make a great sticky post.

But please do not think for a second that this will not be regulated in some way. Your head is in the sand if you do. I quoted TropicalBob the other day saying the exact same thing a few days ago and not one person responded. Pretending it ain't so is the worst thing we can do right now.

Lorddrek

 

[Octal040]

I'm gonna get some tic-tacs and pretend it's extasy. I hope the FDA doesn't ban those.

Under the Analogue Act tic-tacs are, in fact, banned if you did happen to pretend or represent them as being ecstasy. All you have to do is shake your box of tic-tacs and say "oh look at all my pills" and you can get a life sentence.

These people cover all their bases. They have no remorse and the only thing they understand is revenue and civil control.

Sorry my first post is all doom and gloom but nothing makes me more crazy than gov't continual inserting itself where it has no jurisdiction but what it decides to seize from us at the point of a gun. I've been lurking here for a couple months getting all of my info together to make the best purchasing decisions I can make and now they're gonna' take it all away just when I was getting excited about not smoking 3 packs a day.

Funny how all the FDA approved stop-smoking-aids are either completely worthless, cost three times what cigarettes do, or are dangerous. ie: Chantix.

 

[TropicalBob]

It's not up to retailers to do scientific tests... THAT'S THE FDA'S JOB!

That is 100% incorrect. Absolutely false.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

TB is right on point here people. The burden of Proof by way of application and clinical trials falls on the maufacturer--not the FDA. If a manufacture wants to put a drug out to market, it must make the proper applications and back the claims made and saftey there of--That is the way the process works and it has not been done with with the device we employ---Sun

 

[vape4life]

It hasn't been done because it doesn't NEED to be done. There is nothing novel about it. It's old hat. People have been smoking tobacco (and therefore using nicotine) for hundreds of years.

Have they required strict trials of coffee? No. And any caffeine product is allowed on the market without trials (do you think Red Bull submitted a drug app to the FDA? I'll answer for you: NO)

Everything in these things are UNREGULATED, outside of FDA jurisdiction in terms of the drug side of things.

The FDA can only regulate it as a FOOD, like they do with coffee, and herbal supplements.

More on the red bull point: They contain massive amounts of Taurine, which has never before been ingested by human beings in massive quantities. The effects of this massive consumption are unknown (although I'll say appear to be 100% positive based on initial studies). But the FDA doesn't act. Because it's not a drug. It's not marketed as a drug. And they can't. They can only ensure that the manufacturing process is cleanly, as they do with all food products.

 

[Brian]

--reintroduce a "smoking culture" into places where people no longer are used to seeing wisps of smoke and cigarettes hanging from people's mouths.--
--How many things can we find wrong with that comment?
But thank you for showing me the error of my ways, I will now go back to my 2 pak a day 4000 chemical analogs. What on earth was I thinking that a safer alternative might be less offensive...???
anyway moving on....
Its ironic that the shock comment that an ex-smoker might be lured back into the smoking trap.....sounds almost like the comment about tobacco products appealing to children... but really, are they kidding??? are they really that concerned that an ex smoker might "fall off the wagon" or just a modern day Spanish Inquisition funded by deep pockets and pamphlets?
Ironic.... I heard of E cigarettes until I stumbled on an article about non-smokers complaining about them in another state....To me, they are a godsend. If it weren't for that article, I may have never known there was more than just chewing tobacco and snuff. (yuk) Let the anti smoker nazi's complain.

 

[SilverEagleBW]

Ruyan is the only company that i see that might possibly take the time and trouble to deal with the FDA on this matter.If they got FDA approval they would have a large market in America,would they want to invest in that gamble though,that is the question.

 

[MisterPuck]

It hasn't been done because it doesn't NEED to be done. There is nothing novel about it. It's old hat. People have been smoking tobacco (and therefore using nicotine) for hundreds of years.

Have they required strict trials of coffee? No. And any caffeine product is allowed on the market without trials (do you think Red Bull submitted a drug app to the FDA? I'll answer for you: NO)

Everything in these things are UNREGULATED, outside of FDA jurisdiction in terms of the drug side of things.

The FDA can only regulate it as a FOOD, like they do with coffee, and herbal supplements.

doesnt work like that.

Lets say you have drug A, regulated and appproved and you have substance B, no need to regulate it. Each on their own they are fine and legal, but if you mix them, then sell them they become compound C and since compound C has drug A in it, compound C must be tested as everything else in it, while inert on it's own, can change the effect of drug A.


Once you mix it all together it becomes a new thing, thus must be tested again.

 

[Nuck]

MisterPuck, the FDA does not control tobacco or nicotine so vape4life was entirely correct. There is currently no ban because the FDA does not have the authority to ban them. That may change in the future, but for now, unless a shipment or a retailer markets them as an NRT, the FDA has no jurisdiction and if some supplier is silly enough to mark shipments the wrong way, then the shipment will be held. It doesn't affect 'personal vaporizers'.

In Canada, the situation is identical with Health Canada.

 

[MisterPuck]

MisterPuck, the FDA does not control tobacco or nicotine so vape4life was entirely correct. There is currently no ban because the FDA does not have the authority to ban them. That may change in the future, but for now, unless a shipment or a retailer markets them as an NRT, the FDA has no jurisdiction and if some supplier is silly enough to mark shipments the wrong way, then the shipment will be held. It doesn't affect 'personal vaporizers'.

In Canada, the situation is identical with Health Canada.

Yeah, I realized this about a minute or two ago. Im all hyper and energy-drinked out and just simply misread his post.

I'm going to go quietly sit in a corner now.

 

[Lorddrek]

Big tobacco might be interested if Joe Public embraces vaporizing. I think first they will just try to stamp it out. Everyone needs to write letters and show every single smoker they know how cool and relatively easy E-Cigs can be.

Lorddrek

 

[vape4life]

nevermind...

 

[TropicalBob]

It hasn't been done because it doesn't NEED to be done. There is nothing novel about it. It's old hat. People have been smoking tobacco (and therefore using nicotine) for hundreds of years.

Don't try to tell the FDA what does or doesn't need to be done under its jurisdiction. What arrogance. Consider the fact: No one has ever extracted nicotine from tobacco or any other plant and mixed it with propylene glycol and other chemicals to create a new liquid designed solely to be vaporized and inhaled into human lungs. Never been done. That liquid mixture, the FDA has said quite clearly, is a new drug.

And surely anyone can see that that is true. It is indeed a new drug aimed to satisfy nicotine addiction, a recognized medical problem.

Thus the FDA has full jurisdiction to regulate the marketing of that drug.

It is making it clear now that it intends to do just that. Don't have approval? You can't sell your unapproved stuff then.

 

[vape4life]

Don't go trying that claim, because you will fail. You can cut back on cigarettes just as easily as you can use an e-cig to cut back. This is an alternate form of nicotine intake, NOT a treatment to stop using nicotine. If anything, most vapers probably get MORE nicotine than they did before they started.

If you insist that this is some sort of therapy, this will never be allowed by the FDA.

Instead, we have to realize that it is not a treatment. Not a drug.

I don't think I am making any arrogant claims by stating that nicotine trials don't need to be done. I am pretty sure the FDA knows by now (as the supreme court stated) that they DON'T need to be done, and that the FDA CAN'T regulate tobacco products.

If it is presented as a TREATMENT for something, the FDA will jump all over this. Otherwise, it is outside of their jurisdiction. No matter what they might think of it. It's not my arrogant opinion, but the law.

BTW, I am in the healthcare industry and know a few people who have made boat loads of money on "proprietary herbal blends" for this, that, or the other. You know, all of those weight loss pills you see ads for on commercials? Many of them contain completely untried substances, some contain massive amounts of chromium (which can be toxic), and many other things that are known health hazards (remember ephedrine? The FDA couldn't stop it until the congress enacted new legislation.) These things are not regulated by the FDA, even though it would LOVE to. Another example is Kava. You can get it in any drug store as an herbal supplement and there is pretty convincing evidence that it causes liver damage. If something is sold as an herbal supplement, if falls pretty decisively out of the FDA's hands.

 

[Nuck]

Don't try to tell the FDA what does or doesn't need to be done under its jurisdiction. What arrogance. Consider the fact: No one has ever extracted nicotine from tobacco or any other plant and mixed it with propylene glycol and other chemicals to create a new liquid designed solely to be vaporized and inhaled into human lungs. Never been done. That liquid mixture, the FDA has said quite clearly, is a new drug.

And surely anyone can see that that is true. It is indeed a new drug aimed to satisfy nicotine addiction, a recognized medical problem.

Thus the FDA has full jurisdiction to regulate the marketing of that drug.

It is making it clear now that it intends to do just that. Don't have approval? You can't sell your unapproved stuff then.

I have seen the FDA statement that this is a new drug. But I was pretty sure that it when they were discussing it in the context of it being a new NRT. Where did they make the claim about the mixing of 2 uncontrolled substances creating a new drug?

 

[Lorddrek]

When someone gets gets something no matter how wrong or unfair it may be and it gets taken away under that premise they will cry bloody murder instead of just being happy getting what they did. Just human nature I guess.

Lorddrek

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Don't try to tell the FDA what does or doesn't need to be done under its jurisdiction. What arrogance. Consider the fact: No one has ever extracted nicotine from tobacco or any other plant and mixed it with propylene glycol and other chemicals to create a new liquid designed solely to be vaporized and inhaled into human lungs. Never been done. That liquid mixture, the FDA has said quite clearly, is a new drug.

And surely anyone can see that that is true. It is indeed a new drug aimed to satisfy nicotine addiction, a recognized medical problem.

Thus the FDA has full jurisdiction to regulate the marketing of that drug.

It is making it clear now that it intends to do just that. Don't have approval? You can't sell your unapproved stuff then.

Since the e-liquid is classified as a "new drug" by the FDA, then that would make e-cigs "drug paraphernalia", right?

 

[Nuck]

Since the e-liquid is classified as a "new drug" by the FDA, then that would make e-cigs "drug paraphernalia", right?

That's the thing. I can find nowhere that the FDA has done that. Hopefully Bob can clarify.

 

[mawic5150]

.

The down side is that soon the e-cig liquid might be as hard to find as marijuana!

You mean Ill be able to get it locally instead of mail order. Sounds good to me lets get this ban going.

 

[Lorddrek]

When a FDA spokesperson says this:

"It is illegal to sell or market them, and the FDA is looking into this,"

And this:

"This is an open case. Beyond that I cannot comment."

I think it's a no brainer where this is all headed regardless of what agency should be overseeing this new vaporizing technology.

I highly suggest Vape4Life put some more of that internet energy toward buying vaping supplies and stop shooting arrows at the messenger.