Fda crackdown looms

[LaceyUnderall]

Lorddrek,
You are confusing propylene glycol with ETHYLENE glycol. Ethylene glycol is used in radiator fluids and in some brands of anti-freeze. Propylene glycol is an FDA recognized safe food additive used to restore moisture to packaged foods, and is also used in liquid medications such as liquid Tylenol, and other "suspension" liquids, etc. It's a common misconception that PG and EG are the same thing, because they both use the word "glycol" in their names, but there are not the same thing. Just wanted to clear that up!

Yes... and to further back up Nicole here... you can buy Propylene Glycol OTC at the local pharmacy. Radiator Fluid is rarely found in the pharmacy Only in small towns where the pharmacy, grocery and gas are all-in-ones.

 

[ladyraj]

Mark, you are right on point--I do not see these manufactures ponying up here and getting the Clinical Trials and Studies needed to be ready to make an application with the FDA if that becomes necessary. Maybe they have enough consumers right in China and really do not care--What a shame as they have the profit margin to do as many studies as they would like to fund if they wanted them done--makes no sense---Sun

njoy is predicting that it will take 20 million and a couple of years to fulfill the requirements of the FDA...they are working on it. Of note is a case that is before a judge in Vermont regarding the Eclipse system from RJR. The eclipse is tagged as a nicotine delivery system but if RJR prevails, the e-cig may be able to piggy back on the ruling. The argument centers on the quality of proof for reduced risk. RJR argues that: "The only claim we made about the Eclipse product is that it has less inherent risk from its own use than other products in the same class." If that becomes the standard for research studies it greatly reduces the cost and the time frame for submittal to the FDA if required...stay tuned.

 

[Kate]

"... less inherent risk from its own use than other products in the same class ..." that sounds like it could be a very important definition.

Thanks for the information, do you have any links for us to follow this case?

 

[Faethe]

"... less inherent risk from its own use than other products in the same class ..." that sounds like it could be a very important definition.

Thanks for the information, do you have any links for us to follow this case?

By the way, thank you for keeping up Miss Kate. I just read a little of the above and am completely confused. It looks promising, but I no longer know which is the right way to go, advocacy or otherwise, with these. It's gotten a little complicated. Such as the whole RJR thing. It seems like you have a grasp on the power of the tobacco companies here in the states and all that implies. I no longer have a clue.

If possible, if someone could make an e-smoker's coloring book with the annotated version of what all this legal stuff is, I would like one.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

By the way, thank you for keeping up Miss Kate. I just read a little of the above and am completely confused. It looks promising, but I no longer know which is the right way to go, advocacy or otherwise, with these. It's gotten a little complicated. Such as the whole RJR thing. It seems like you have a grasp on the power of the tobacco companies here in the states and all that implies. I no longer have a clue.

If possible, if someone could make an e-smoker's coloring book with the annotated version of what all this legal stuff is, I would like one.

I fear there's no "simple primer" to allow any of us to wade easily through the morass of legality currently surrounding our gizmos....and it gets more twisted and complex every day...

Good news is we might have another ally - though it shocks me to say RJR. I, too, would like to get a bit more information on this case....

Kate, you're great!

 

[Faethe]

I fear there's no "simple primer" to allow any of us to wade easily through the morass of legality currently surrounding our gizmos....and it gets more twisted and complex every day...

Good news is we might have another ally - though it shocks me to say RJR. I, too, would like to get a bit more information on this case....

Kate, you're great!

I'm just glad we have enough concerned people that are keeping on top of this. Because seriously - it went fuzzy for me a few days ago. Which is about the time I started reading the legal stuff 8-o

 

[SnarkyClark]

I fear there's no "simple primer" to allow any of us to wade easily through the morass of legality currently surrounding our gizmos....and it gets more twisted and complex every day...

Good news is we might have another ally - though it shocks me to say RJR. I, too, would like to get a bit more information on this case....

Kate, you're great!

If given a choice between PM and RJR, the latter seems a better fit for us. RJR has already been developing & pushing Tobacco Harm Reduction products - Camel SNUS, plus the years of serious research into ultra-low TNSA tobacco products. They appear to be the largest commercial concern at this time that even cares one iota about THR.

 

[Faethe]

If given a choice between PM and RJR, the latter seems a better fit for us. RJR has already been developing & pushing Tobacco Harm Reduction products - Camel SNUS, plus the years of serious research into ultra-low TNSA tobacco products. They appear to be the largest commercial concern at this time that even cares one iota about THR.

Is there even a difference? PM has a long and notorious track record, but is RJR any better?

 

[ladyraj]

"... less inherent risk from its own use than other products in the same class ..." that sounds like it could be a very important definition.

Thanks for the information, do you have any links for us to follow this case?

I am unable to post URLs but if you search for " VT's lawsuit against RJR" you'll find a link to the Burlington free press and the VT attorney general's website.

But it may not be as promising as it seems. This is a test case it seems and it appears everyone is waiting in the wings ready to act.

 

[Kate]

By the way, thank you for keeping up Miss Kate. ...

... Kate, you're great!

Thanks very much but credit where it's due, it was Ladyraj who came up with the important stuff.

Ladyraj, you've given me a whole new dimension on this issue and hope that we won't end up pressed into categories that don't suit. Thanks, I'll try to watch for the outcome of the case.

 

[Reverend Damien Caine]

RJR vs PM...... Well... PM's loving up on the FDA for 'some reason', so I choose RJR.

 

[Webby]

The FDA has not acted yet--hence customs has no guidence. Once the FDA acts by way of a mandate, then Customs will have a clear directive as to what to do ---Sun

Therin lies the rub.

Customs has no guidance - only a mandate to hold shipments for "study" UPS has been oprdered to "forward all orders of e-cigarettes to the FDA/Dept of Agriculture for further review"

...at least that's what shows up on my tracking report, and has for over two weeks now...

 

[Webby]

RJR vs PM...... Well... PM's loving up on the FDA for 'some reason', so I choose RJR.

It should come as no surprise that PM firmly supported the Family Smoking Prevention And Tobacco Control Act. The bill made producing tobacco products more expensive--and, as we've seen, maybe even endanger non-tobacco products. The effect is to make life more difficult for PM's smaller competitors, because they cannot absorb the costs of regulation as well.

Sort of like being in a footrace with 5 year olds and agreeing that everyone should take a good healthy kick in the jewels when you're six miles ahead of the competition and you are the only one wearing a cup...

 

[Reverend Damien Caine]

RJR has taken the initiative with the harm reduction products. Shows some kind of effort on their part. PMs done.... what? Said he sides with the FDA? I'm SURE he has our best interests in mind.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Therin lies the rub.

Customs has no guidance - only a mandate to hold shipments for "study" UPS has been oprdered to "forward all orders of e-cigarettes to the FDA/Dept of Agriculture for further review"

...at least that's what shows up on my tracking report, and has for over two weeks now...

Webby--I wrote that some time ago as it appears that the FDA wanted to act, but has held back on doing so for whatever reason. Using Customs as a scapegoat to impose a de facto ban was just as effective. I think we will soon hear from the FDA, but untll then, Customs is doing their bidding----------Sun

 

[LaceyUnderall]

RJR has taken the initiative with the harm reduction products. Shows some kind of effort on their part. PMs done.... what? Said he sides with the FDA? I'm SURE he has our best interests in mind.

You should read this: http://www.altria.com/download/pdf/M...rrish_Yale.pdf

Pretty much lays it all out on the table.

 

[Dr.FBoyde]

It is Senator Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) the strongest opponent of the electronic cigarette. The FDA needs numbers. I am a statistician as a PHD I/O Psychology Candidate. I have been contracted by a company whose shipments are held by FDA until a review.

was told by UPS that the FDA is not releasing these units. This is the end of many of our businesses unless we unite together. I need for 1000 electronic cigarette smokers to visit w.be-smoke-free.com and complete the 5 minute FDA survey. This is not a marketing gimmick to promote be-smoke-free as they are almost out of units.

 

[strayling]

I need for 1000 electronic cigarette smokers to visit w.be-smoke-free.com and complete the 5 minute FDA survey.

I filled it out. Seems quite well designed.

 

[Reverend Damien Caine]

I completed it as well. Didn't see a reason not to, it was not intrusive, and if it supports the cause....

I've got a large shipment that just arrived stateside, got my fingers crossed, over 30 starter kits and a slew of parts.... Every time I refresh the tracking and do not see it has moved is aggravating.

 

[mamacat]

I filled it out and was more than happy to do so.

I work for "Big Tobacco," live in the town RJR built, went to RJR High School, and have smoked since I was 14, which was many moons ago. Even though this is how I make a living - I am more than happy to help anyway possible to make vaping an alternative to smoking.

I have only been vaping for one week and can already feel the difference in the way my body feels through out the day! I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!!

If you have any ideas as to how I can help, PM me and let me know your thoughts and I will do what I can!! Even though I have followed the forum for sometime, I am still fairly new to all of this so bear with me...........

Kindest Regards!