FDA FDA deeming regulation proposals

[Sirius]

Excellent posting, thank you!

And that is precisely the intention of this whole FDA regulation (same as the EU regulation here in Europe): to keep the smoking gravy train rolling, for those who find it immensely profitable.

Current vapers will find their sources. But future - prospective - vapers will be up the creek without a paddle. They will just keep smoking. Which is precisely the intention. The intention of those who profit nicely from people smoking - buying useless NRT's - smoking - buying useless, regulated-to-death cigalikes - smoking - paying high tobacco taxes - getting sick - paying lots of money to Big Pharma - dying.

That is what those in power want.
And don't be mistaken about "protecting consumers" or "protecting chiiiildren".
Money. That is all. Human beings are expendable.

............
Excellent posting, kristin
Yes, that is the way it is.
And yes, in order to arrive at this knowledge, you have to read the sources yourself.

Reality is worse than any conspiracy theory could ever be.

I agree Anja -- Tyranny knows no borders. It thrives everywhere it seems. People just roll with it like nothing wrong is going on.

 

[Jman8]

I don't think they seek to create a black market...
I think they don't care if they do.

It will probably be one of the smallest black mrkets in history.
Perhaps not even big enough to survive.

Although profitability should be quite high, so maybe...

I think it could be one of the biggest in history. More people alive today than ever before. Plus we are talking about something that won't mess you up for life. Plus there are lots and lots of niche openings for several marketers. More so than with any other product ever to go onto the black market.

The black market can be as simple as information around that tells you, precisely, how to DIY and thus no need to go thru shady dealer. Get good at that, and supply enough friends, and you may all of the sudden have buyers come out of the woodwork who wish you would deal. Some may not want to deal, I believe many will, for various reasons (political and economic).

Anyway, I wish to be clear that here in 2nd week of comment period, I do not believe there will be need for a black market, and do still see market doing well once this first round of regulations are put into effect. Take BT completely out of the picture, and I see vaping industry doing well.

 

[DC2]

The black market can be as simple as information around that tells you, precisely, how to DIY and thus no need to go thru shady dealer. Get good at that, and supply enough friends, and you may all of the sudden have buyers come out of the woodwork who wish you would deal. Some may not want to deal, I believe many will, for various reasons (political and economic).

If there is a black market, it will be to get nicotine base,and MAYBE finished e-liquid products.

 

[Mowgli]

There are some states who do ban syringes, including vet / pet med use, so I'm assuming it's up to the state. Even if syringes are not banned in the state, the pharmacy (most of them) may think they are and refuse to sell them but they'd be available in feed stores......

View attachment 331670

"Residents of CA, CT, DE, IL, MN, NJ, NH, or NY, please ask your veterinarian for a prescription to purchase needles and syringes. Any licensed veterinarian can provide you with a prescription. The easiest way to get a prescription filled is to ask your veterinarian to call us at 1-800-447-3021 or Fax to 800-447-2404 with the prescription information."

from Kick-... Monoject syringes at Drs. Foster & Smith

 

[Sirius]

"Residents of CA, CT, DE, IL, MN, NJ, NH, or NY, please ask your veterinarian for a prescription to purchase needles and syringes. Any licensed veterinarian can provide you with a prescription. The easiest way to get a prescription filled is to ask your veterinarian to call us at 1-800-447-3021 or Fax to 800-447-2404 with the prescription information."

from Kick-... Monoject syringes at Drs. Foster & Smith

These work just as well..No prescription needed:
Graduated Cylinder Glass 50ml - MyFreedomSmokes.com

 

[Sirius]

900+ posts in just 8 days..wow!

 

[StormFinch]

Black market ... blah, blah... what's the point? Has anyone bought anything from the black market? Do you know what it costs?

I've seen it in action in the past. Black market goods are typically cheaper than the regulated variety because it costs the provider less or even nothing to acquire, depending on how they work. This of course disregards things that are harder to come by, like organs. Black market cigarettes are usually at least a third less than stamped packs, as is alcohol. If the regs go into effect more than likely prices on the legal vaping supplies left on the market will go up to pay for the cost of doing business, while companies like Fasttech will continue to blithely do business in cheap product.

Vaping equipment is also obviously popular enough to make it onto the smash and grab scene, as several vape shops can attest to.

 

[aikanae1]

That's why I've come to the conclusion the FDA really has no clue what they are trying to regulate.

That and the fact they're worried about killing big expensive cigars but don't seem to care the same would happen to ecigs and pipes. Doing that to ecigs won't help health, it will create a prohibition atmosphere and people's health will be harmed.

The FDA may not know what kind of devices equipment they are eliminating because they don't percieve it as important to know. It won't affect them personally anymore than suicides taking Chantix affected them. They are not dumb. What they listened to in sessions was not how ecigs have helped but for ways of implimenting this with the least waves possible. They never changed their opinion of what they wanted to do. For the bulk of mass media to believe us about the end of the industry, we'd sound like extremists.

 

[Mowgli]

These work just as well..No prescription needed:
Graduated Cylinder Glass 50ml - MyFreedomSmokes.com

Plastic is hydrophobic so our sticky liquids pour out quicker and it's cheaper.

This stuff is pretty but I always use my plastic GCs into glass bottles.

 

[pamdis]

The FDA may not know what kind of devices equipment they are eliminating because they don't percieve it as important to know. It won't affect them personally anymore than suicides taking Chantix affected them. They are not dumb. What they listened to in sessions was not how ecigs have helped but for ways of implimenting this with the least waves possible. They never changed their opinion of what they wanted to do. For the bulk of mass media to believe us about the end of the industry, we'd sound like extremists.

And this is what worries me. That they are asking all those questions in order to get more backup garbage to re-inforce their own preconceived ideas. And they will simply ignore anything else that they are given, like from us. Simply seems to already be the pattern.

 

[aikanae1]

I've seen it in action in the past. Black market goods are typically cheaper than the regulated variety because it costs the provider less or even nothing to acquire, depending on how they work. This of course disregards things that are harder to come by, like organs. Black market cigarettes are usually at least a third less than stamped packs, as is alcohol. If the regs go into effect more than likely prices on the legal vaping supplies left on the market will go up to pay for the cost of doing business, while companies like Fasttech will continue to blithely do business in cheap product.

Vaping equipment is also obviously popular enough to make it onto the smash and grab scene, as several vape shops can attest to.

We've been hit with several home invasion buglaries for expensive vape gear too.

 

[aikanae1]

And this is what worries me. That they are asking all those questions in order to get more backup garbage to re-inforce their own preconceived ideas. And they will simply ignore anything else that they are given, like from us. Simply seems to already be the pattern.

Yeh. So much for eliquid vendor's "secret" propietary mixes. Do you think we'll find out what's in Boba's before Blu does?

 

[Myk]

Nobody will ever be able to convince me that the FDA doesn't know what they are doing.
They've had listening sessions with CASAA and AEMSA and many others.

What they are doing right now is exactly what they always intended on doing.
For the very reasons they always intended on doing it.

They are aiming at eliminating the market as we know it, and handing everything over to Big Tobacco.
And Big Tobacco will only produce cigalikes in Tobacco and Menthol flavor.

Oh yes, I don't doubt their intentions. But our items are mostly re-purposed objects that have evolved into their own market. Most (smart) people already buy "kanthal" not 1' of ecig coil wire for $2 at an ecig shop.
I don't think FDA has any idea what a mod actually is, they're blinded by their ANT Zealotry, they see a really big ecig not a flashlight.
Yes they've talked with CASAA and AEMSA but they mostly talked with BT.

Having to list the ingredients of a mod (not that I've seen that proposed) or anything else crazy and we simply go back to when mods were people's imaginations. People making due with what they can come up with will end up with people harming themselves if the FDA takes it too far.

 

[Sirius]

Yeh. So much for eliquid vendor's "secret" propietary mixes. Do you think we'll find out what's in Boba's before Blu does?

I doubt they will find AV's recipe for either Bobas or Gorilla Juice. As much as I love them, I won't be buying any from Blu even if they do.

 

[Myk]

"Residents of CA, CT, DE, IL, MN, NJ, NH, or NY, please ask your veterinarian for a prescription to purchase needles and syringes. Any licensed veterinarian can provide you with a prescription. The easiest way to get a prescription filled is to ask your veterinarian to call us at 1-800-447-3021 or Fax to 800-447-2404 with the prescription information."

from Kick-... Monoject syringes at Drs. Foster & Smith

Why would I do that when I can run up to the farm store and buy them? I buy handfuls of the little 3ml ones for flavors. I don't think F&S knows what they're talking about.

 

[Katya]

There are some states who do ban syringes, including vet / pet med use, so I'm assuming it's up to the state. Even if syringes are not banned in the state, the pharmacy (most of them) may think they are and refuse to sell them but they'd be available in feed stores.

Unless you're a hard-core illegal-drug addict--then the state gives them to you for free.

[I live in CA and had zero problems ordering my syringes and needles on line, BTW. No prescription required.]

 

[Kent C]

Unless you're a hard-core illegal-drug addict--then the state gives them to you for free.

[I live in CA and had zero problems ordering my syringes and needles on line, BTW. No prescription required.]

And will actually pay you via SSI a monthly stipend.

SSDI and SSI Disability Benefits for Drug Addiction | Disability Secrets

 

[Myrany]

Also in many place you can go to a pharmacy and request one for the purposes of refilling ink jet printer cartridges. No problems whatsoever.

 

[Katya]

And will actually pay you via SSI a monthly stipend.

SSDI and SSI Disability Benefits for Drug Addiction | Disability Secrets

This is what baffles me the most... Why is it that in our society, illegal-drug addicts get all the love, support and understanding from the government, while we, "legal-drug addicts" are being demonized and despised by everybody.

 

[Kent C]

This is what baffles me the most... Why is it that in our society, illegal-drug addicts get all the love, support and understanding from the government, while we, "legal-drug addicts" are being demonized and despised by everybody.

Because tobacco makes you sharp and other drugs make you dull. Sharp people are harder to control than dull people. Next question?