FDA FDA deeming regulation proposals

[Kent C]

Is there something from the OMB I'm missing reading?

I'm not sure either. I haven't seen any OMB report recently but one is due - long overdue. I think the problem is that earlier, the OMB rejected some of the FDA's ideas about the deeming doc. So the fact that they still came out with it, over "OMB's advice" (so to speak) is discouraging to some who held out for the OMB to reject the drastic measures. This is all 'guessing' perhaps salemgold and/or patkin can explain to what they are referring.

 

[patkin]

Is there something from the OMB I'm missing reading?

Mainly that the FDA ignored the possiblities for severe consequences it put forth.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

Stocking up on anything IS community oriented. The community won't have to bail you out Just now stocked up more eGos myself. I know I'll use them at some point. I'm considering more nic juice... if just for currency/trade.... Having stock, makes it less depressing. Doesn't eliminate it, just lessens it.

What does eGos mean? I think eGos = batteries, but you presumably don't mean that (?).

(I'm not sure it will be legal to trade nic juice once the 2-year window is closed. Fortunately I'm going nic free so I don't expect to have any. And frankly if I were inclined to do so, I woudn't be advertising it. Sooner or later water-soluble nic is going to become schedule II, methinks - after "medicalization" of course. That may be a good five years down the road. Or earlier.)

Incidently just because I'm a Dem, one is (=you are) free to conclude that I might be more inclined to bail someone else out. But I am not more inclined to ask anyone to bail me out. Just so we're clear about that

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

A very long time I have some that has been in the freezer for 3.5 years and it is still as good as the day that I put it there. I have enough to last me about 10 years in there now. This will help you.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ttle-help-freezing-nic-juice.html#post2126610

That's a great post, but it's super detailed and I personally found it a little confusing. I talked to a vendor who told me that the following strategy works:

1) Get it in 100% VG, because VG lasts longer. Obviously I presume you want a good high strength, I don't believe anyone sells more than 100mg/ml (10%).

2) Break it up into brown glass bottles which are not too huge. (E.g. 125ml or 60ml, but probably not more than - say - 1 yr's supply, because you don't want to be thawing it too often). Assuming that your freezer is pretty ordinary (i.e. not industrial), you don't really need to leave that much room because the VG probably won't freeze all the way. 7% expansion is the max even if it does, I believe. You might want to do a test bottle with water, to make sure you know exactly how full they can be. And of course all the usual precautions when it comes to handling high-concentration nic. apply (gloves, preferably goggles, make sure you stay focused and have a good flat surface to work on, etc.). But you know all that

3) Take your smaller bottles and thaw them out every month or two, and then transfer a monthly or bimonthly supply into another brown bottle that lives in your fridge. 1-2 months in the fridge for VG is no prob. (Actually I left my first 500ml bottle of VG out at room temp. and it was just dandy when I finished it after 3 months. I mostly flavor vape 0%, so I go through a lot of VG

Obviously all bottles s/b carefully marked, children should not have access, blah blah. But you know that, too

I'm no expert but this guy sells it for a living, so I trust him.

 

[Kent C]

What does eGos mean? I think eGos = batteries, but you presumably don't mean that (?).

(I'm not sure it will be legal to trade nic juice once the 2-year window is closed. Fortunately I'm going nic free so I don't expect to have any. And frankly if I were inclined to do so, I woudn't be advertising it. Sooner or later water-soluble nic is going to become schedule II, methinks - after "medicalization" of course. That may be a good five years down the road. Or earlier.)

Incidently just because I'm a Dem, one is (=you are) free to conclude that I might be more inclined to bail someone else out. But I am not more inclined to ask anyone to bail me out. Just so we're clear about that

Yes, eGo batts. I don't like the plural spelling 'egos' and sometimes write eGo's, but that's not right either. lol

I assume that trading eliquid wouldn't be legal either. It will still be a currency as will other things in SHTF scenarios. I like nic in the bloodstream, so I'll never go to zero nic. The bail out was a bit of a joke, but it still applies to those who don't stock up. The point - A rationally self-interested act isn't anti-community. People acting in their own rational self-interest makes for great communities. A selfish act (with no regard for others or to harm them) is both anti-self and anti-community. But, yeah, we're clear on that. But I also know who will be asking. lol.

 

[salemgold]

That's a great post, but it's super detailed and I personally found it a little confusing. I talked to a vendor who told me that the following strategy works:

1) Get it in 100% VG, because VG lasts longer. Obviously I presume you want a good high strength, I don't believe anyone sells more than 100mg/ml (10%).

2) Break it up into brown glass bottles which are not too huge. (E.g. 125ml or 60ml, but probably not more than - say - 1 yr's supply, because you don't want to be thawing it too often). Assuming that your freezer is pretty ordinary (i.e. not industrial), you don't really need to leave that much room because the VG probably won't freeze all the way. 7% expansion is the max even if it does, I believe. You might want to do a test bottle with water, to make sure you know exactly how full they can be. And of course all the usual precautions when it comes to handling high-concentration nic. apply (gloves, preferably goggles, make sure you stay focused and have a good flat surface to work on, etc.). But you know all that

3) Take your smaller bottles and thaw them out every month or two, and then transfer a monthly or bimonthly supply into another brown bottle that lives in your fridge. 1-2 months in the fridge for VG is no prob. (Actually I left my first 500ml bottle of VG out at room temp. and it was just dandy when I finished it after 3 months. I mostly flavor vape 0%, so I go through a lot of VG

Obviously all bottles s/b carefully marked, children should not have access, blah blah. But you know that, too

I'm no expert but this guy sells it for a living, so I trust him.

That sounds more confusing and like alot of extra steps that may not be needed are in there to me

Kurt is a professional chemist and he has not steered us wrong yet. I have much trust and faith in what he has to say as do many of the members here.

I just sanitized my glass bottles, filled them with PG based nic and put them in the freezer. Left them there until needed. It has worked very well for me.

I only posted that link because some folks like to read the detailed info.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

No, actually, They don't. Kanger doesn't care, nor does Vision, or any other Chinese company. Believe me, I have spoken to quite a few of them. As long as it doesn't affect their bottom-line right now, they have no position whatsoever on it.

Do you have any idea whether they plan to register, if and when the rules become final?

There's an approx. 6-mo. time period for registration - I believe any manufacturer who doesn't meet that requirement can be nailed (i.e. have their products siezed as "adulterated or misbranded").

 

[Kent C]

A very long time I have some that has been in the freezer for 3.5 years and it is still as good as the day that I put it there. I have enough to last me about 10 years in there now. This will help you.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ttle-help-freezing-nic-juice.html#post2126610

Got the same advice from Kurt over a year ago now. All is well. Using Boston glass and PE (polyethylene) or PE lined caps also helps. No Rubber, no Rubber stoppers/drippers. Kurt is now pushing 5 years now with no decrease in nic level - he tests it VG too. He and I are a few where VG doesn't affect flavor, actually better than PG based, for some reason.

 

[Myk]

This is something else to point out to the FDA. God only knows what side effects nefarious "bathtub gin" brewers will have on the black market.

By the way... can tobacco grow here in AK?

For the record those "bathtub gin" distillers weren't really the ones poisoning people, that was the government requiring alcohol to be "denatured" (which is still done today). They knew people would bottle that alcohol and sell it. They knew people would die. Similar to what Carter did with paraquat.
Never underestimate the lengths government will go to in order to prove their point that what they're telling you not to do is dangerous.

 

[salemgold]

Got the same advice from Kurt over a year ago now. All is well. Using Boston glass and PE (polyethylene) or PE lined caps also helps. No Rubber, no Rubber stoppers/drippers. Kurt is now pushing 5 years now with no decrease in nic level - he tests it VG too. He and I are a few where VG doesn't affect flavor, actually better than PG based, for some reason.

Yes, he told me that VG based would hold up longer as well. I just can't use high VG liquids and prefer to handle nic in PG. So far, it has held up very well.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

I don't want to sound like a broken record and, truthfully, having read the pertinent sections several times, my blood pressure rises (not verified) every time I read them. I'm sick of reading their threats, IE: what we propose being so much better than what we could do regarding components. So, without posting quotes and assuming everyone has read those sections and, thus, why I'm asking: can anyone tell me what Fed Depts/Agencies currently handle tobacco pipes, he*d shop materials, syringes, cell phones, electric razors, etc as they pertain to public safety or if the FDA controls any of them under the "public health safety" umbrella? Hate to sound like an apathetic idiot but, heretofore, have had no reason to delve into how any of those are handled. I'm trying to understand the "component" issue and the validity/invalidity of their "We could" threats regarding them. I want to see what process some of those items have to go thru and where.

In case it helps ...

1) Some of the items you've listed are covered under the Federal Drug Paraphernalia statute (google it, I don't want to post the link here, because of forum rules). That means DEA jurisdiction probably.

2) To the extent that syringes are medical devices, that's FDA. However a blunt-tipped syringe would probably not be. (A syringe that allows attachable needles which might be blunt or suitable for injection into people or animals? Dunno. But the attachable needles would be FDA if they could be used for injection and CPSC if not. Although hmm, maybe some designated for animal use might be USDA??).

3) I do not believe FDA has ever regulated tobacco pipes or even pipe tobacco. (But they could.)

4) Everything else is going to be CPSC (consumer product safety commission), and/or FCC (cell phones), and/or maybe OSHA (if used in the workplace) and/or FTC (regarding marketing).

To put it another way, FDA has two areas of jurisdition that concern us:

1) Tobacco products jurisdiction - anything derived from tobacco injested by consumers recreationally. (Not insecticides or some - say - fabric created from tobacco leaves intended to be used as clothing, etc.).

2) Approved medical therapies and devices. (Or UNaoproved ones, for that matter - which they can sieze and destroy as "adulterated or misbranded." FDA is always cracking down on the herbal supplements and homeopathic stuff on that basis.)

FDA also obviously does foods and cosmetics, but I don't think that matters for purposes of your Q, nor our interest here on ths forum.

 

[aikanae1]

Anja -- I drove a truck for many years. I'm vaping Cotton Candy atm..lol
Good points btw sweetie!

I was so hoping someone like you would appear. Have you considered doing a video rebuttal to that comment? Do you like bubble gum and gummy bear flavors too? How about swedish fish or skittles?

 

[sonicdsl]

Yes, eGo batts. I don't like the plural spelling 'egos' and sometimes write eGo's, but that's not right either. lol

<...>

eGoes??

eGi??

 

[Gato del Jugo]

Anybody hear of any juice-makers, for example, doing fundraising for this?


You know, something like, "For all purchases between now & ___, 10% of proceeds will be donated to CASAA to help keep vaping alive!"

 

[aikanae1]

I don't know if it applies right away, but it appears to me some of the big tobacco players had advance notice of the regulations before they were released. I find it hard to believe that there isn't some obscure ruling against doing that even if it's done all the time.

 

[aikanae1]

Anybody hear of any juice-makers, for example, doing fundraising for this?


You know, something like, "For all purchases between now & ___, 10% of proceeds will be donated to CASAA to help keep vaping alive!"

Velvet Cloud Vapes just did something like that to fight Calif AB1500.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

Yes, eGo batts. I don't like the plural spelling 'egos' and sometimes write eGo's, but that's not right either. lol

I thought ego batts were LiOn and they'd be dead in a few years? (Personally I rather like my spinners. So what if they don't give me a wattage option or tell me the ohms. Or the price of tea in china.)

Anyway I figured I'd have to go w/ mechs for long term viability. Assuming, of course, that 186xx batteries are still used 20 years from now. Aaargh.

 

[Kent C]

I thought ego batts were LiOn and they'd be dead in a few years? (Personally I rather like my spinners. So what if they don't give me a wattage option or tell me the ohms. Or the price of tea in china.)

Anyway I figured I'd have to go w/ mechs for long term viability. Assuming, of course, that 186xx batteries are still used 20 years from now. Aaargh.

I've had eGos that have gone 2 years plus. A few spinners that didn't make it 6 months. but as always, ymmv. I also have no use for mods other than in the worst case scenario - I have a few "eGos" that take non-proprietary batts, which is nice. Love my reo-mini for a good bottom feeder box type mod. The only one I use other than eGos. I have an iTaste but it's going to classifieds.

You might like the one sticky I have

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ego-type-models/519902-types-joyetech-ego-batteries.html

I'm an "eGoist" in more ways than one

 

[Gato del Jugo]

Velvet Cloud Vapes just did something like that to fight Calif AB1500.

I buy from them.. I knew they were doing the CA thing, but guess I didn't read the whole recent email & originally missed this part...


We're hereby dedicating a large portion of all our proceeds to fighting for your right to vape. More details coming up soon, but we will begin advert campaigns and lobbying missions to Washington D.C. to make sure your voice is heard.


I hope lots of others will be doing something similar...

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I don't know if it applies right away, but it appears to me some of the big tobacco players had advance notice of the regulations before they were released. I find it hard to believe that there isn't some obscure ruling against doing that even if it's done all the time.

I'm sure they were sitting at the table, helping to draft it...