Fda news release
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Yes, but you are also dealing with the general public -- so you can't really ignore this. There is a reason why politicians claim almost anything they do is to "save our kids" -- it works. Who would oppose protecting children?
But we could also use the children argument. What will happen to that child if his/her parents are unable to quit analogs and die? Will that benefit the child in some way?
BTW, I hope that the "save our children" crusaders do not find the howto section of this forum where the straw modification of the cartridge is described. We all know that only children would ever use a straw with fruity-tasting liquid -- so that straw modification must be targeted to children. 
I will say after reading the FDA results I think we need to start thinking of a way to make our own atties for better delivery of nicotine. Some of the sights here are already making there own types of ecigs....prodigy, silver bullet, janty stick, and GG as examples. A good start but why not make your own atties for better quality control. I think we need to get a way from having these ecigs looking like cigarettes. And get away from using chinese made ecigs. There have been way to problems with quality control with them with many different products (led paint on toys) and I think that will help fight this battle. When people think chinese made they already have a negative opinion.
I think we need to consider all possibilities for this. There needs to be a shift in change to win this battle and I believe we need to start looking at improving these ecigs and eliquid. Or we will not stand a chance....start showing US and UK made ecigs, atties, and eliquid then you will see a huge shift in popularity.
I think we need to consider all possibilities for this. There needs to be a shift in change to win this battle and I believe we need to start looking at improving these ecigs and eliquid. Or we will not stand a chance....start showing US and UK made ecigs, atties, and eliquid then you will see a huge shift in popularity.
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They cannot ban the actual e-cig.
It's like banning a radar detector.
In some states you can have a radar detector but are not allowed to use it.
They can ban toxic liquids, or usage of these liquids.
I think everyone is allowed a vaporizer/inhaler or whatever else..
It's like banning a radar detector.
In some states you can have a radar detector but are not allowed to use it.
They can ban toxic liquids, or usage of these liquids.
I think everyone is allowed a vaporizer/inhaler or whatever else..
Another side to this coin is to get the Chinese manufacturers to work with us in regards to safety and qc. It isn't an impossible task and while they are looking to "cut corners", as are American companies (peanut butter corp), they are just as invested in the US market as we all are (we being suppliers AND consumers).
Plus, there IS an American company making the eliquid right now and the FDA simply either did not know they exist, which is funny since they are registered with the FDA, OR they had very specific motives for testing the brands that they did and who knows how many cartridges they really got through to get the 18 they wanted.
What we do know is that from this test, one thing is for certain that everyone can get on board with: QC and manufacturing processes need to be a top priority moving forward. Skewed testing or not, the inconsistencies in just the levels of nicotine from one high cartridge to the next were enough to make that a valid argument, of which I agree. A high, 16mg cartridge should be a high, 16mg cartridge in comparison to the one sitting next to it in the box.
Yes, but you are also dealing with the general public -- so you can't really ignore this. There is a reason why politicians claim almost anything they do is to "save our kids" -- it works. Who would oppose protecting children?
But we could also use the children argument. What will happen to that child if his/her parents are unable to quit analogs and die? Will that benefit the child in some way?
Absolutely it needs to be addressed, but if you can knock holes in their technical stuff with scientific FACT, their argument has already lost credibility, and the subjective things are much easier to argue. In my opinion we need to come up with standard replies to their standard statements and we can all use them. Hearing 100 different reasons why the PV isn't marketed to children does not have the same impact as hearing one reason 100 times.
I say for the subjective "flavors are marketed to children" we counter with "what child has 100 dollars to spend on an electronic cigarette?" Any other ideas on that front?
[EDIT] Lacey - Yes.
Also, post #100!! Yay for me!!
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know thy enemy and know yourself....before entering into a field of battle one must know the enemy, how they think and act. know yourself....how will you reacted to the enemy. TO make a huge impacted you need to know all aspects of the battle field.
Fruit Chill Nicorette gum is therefor marketed to children. As are the two new flavors of lozenges that were just approved THIS WEEK! Even the pharmaceutical companies are noticing that adults gravitate towards flavors... unless of course they are attempting to hook a new generation of gum chewers and candy suckers on nicotine
Let them ban the ecig.
But they cannot stop us from buying batteries, and separate components.
One thing is sure...
Dakeng in China the main liquid manufacturer has to get his **** together to ensure there is not one hazardous particle of cancer causing agents in the liquids.
Why don't they ban nicorette then? Bastuards!!!
But they cannot stop us from buying batteries, and separate components.
One thing is sure...
Dakeng in China the main liquid manufacturer has to get his **** together to ensure there is not one hazardous particle of cancer causing agents in the liquids.
Why don't they ban nicorette then? Bastuards!!!
Well, then use "children facts" too so that it's not subjective anymore!
Ask the FDA and/or ecig opponents for reports on all the underage ecig sales that have been documented. Compare the number of underage children who purchased ecig products to the number of adults who purchased them.
More facts for your arsenal in my opinion.
Fruit Chill Nicorette gum is therefor marketed to children. As are the two new flavors of lozenges that were just approved THIS WEEK! Even the pharmaceutical companies are noticing that adults gravitate towards flavors... unless of course they are attempting to hook a new generation of gum chewers and candy suckers on nicotine
Problem with that argument is that instead of allowing flavored liquid, they take the irony to heart and ban the flavored gum...
[EDIT] Our House, I would love to see those stats... however, I would bet that no supplier is going to come forward and say "Yeah, we don't ID" or even "We fired Mr. Smith for selling a kit to a 12 year old". Are any suppliers keeping track of that kind of thing?
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Among other groups, exactly. That's why when you go to the doctor he conveniently gives you a prescription for something dangerously "approved" like Chantix because his reps are pushing it on him. I had to practically force my doc to not prescribe it for me as he was pushing it so hard. After all the talk of suicides and the dangers of taking became public it I asked him his opinion and he said, "There are risks true, but it's still better than smoking". A sentiment I believe was mirrored by the pharms when the news broke.
CoderGuy
No , there is no American manufacturer making liquids. The base ingredients all come from China, either pre-mixed or separate.
Who are you referring to?
I know. I have thought about that too... and IMHO I think that the restrictions on the NRT's should be lifted. When someone goes in to purchase tobacco products, ALL of their nicotine choices should be made available to them. Not just the tobacco products.
All smoke shops, gas stations etc should be able to have cigarettes, chew, snuss, ecigs, patches, gum, gels, lotions, whatever...
This is another argument I have been tossing around... making it easier for the pharmaceuticals to market their products with less restrictions. It's amazing the restrictions they are held to when it comes to their NRT's. Sure they can advertise on tv and radio, but they can't sell their products next to cigs? Seems silly.
[EDIT] Our House, I would love to see those stats... however, I would bet that no supplier is going to come forward and say "Yeah, we don't ID" or even "We fired Mr. Smith for selling a kit to a 12 year old". Are any suppliers keeping track of that kind of thing?[/quote]
at bloogplanet, you are required 2 times to certify age..once before entering the site for the first time and 2nd before checking out...and you must pay with a credit card..which are the same guidlines used for other adult internet content and stores....
We are about to go into retail stores and we have insisted they be placed by the tobacco cigarettes and that they id before they are sold inline with each state's tobacco age.
at bloogplanet, you are required 2 times to certify age..once before entering the site for the first time and 2nd before checking out...and you must pay with a credit card..which are the same guidlines used for other adult internet content and stores....
We are about to go into retail stores and we have insisted they be placed by the tobacco cigarettes and that they id before they are sold inline with each state's tobacco age.
It is my understanding that Johnson Creek makes their juice from start to finish here in the US. They may be sourcing some of their ingredients (PG) from China, as are 90% of the pharmaceutical companies, but they do not take an unflavored base, import it and add flavoring here.
They can't? They're right next to each other in my store. Some of the gum is actually on the sales floor where anyone could grab it. I've always thought it was silly, but apparently the company has permission to do such a thing, since it's planogrammed that way...
I glanced over the final report. It appears the baddies are mostly tobacco flavors. Damn. I just found the right mix to a little of that flavor. This should make vanilla harder to get than it already is
Dave
Dave
so what will be the strategy to take this on. So we already know that quality control is an issue. Because that is one of the main arguments the FDA is using. So where can we start by adressing that issue
Is this particular establishment licensed to disperse meds? ie a pharmacy? If so, I think that's how they can do it. However, even in that case, many pharmacies are implementing a "you can't buy your poison where you purchase your meds" kind of thing and are moving towards no tobacco.
I was in a Walgreens awhile back and they did have the NRT's next to the cigarettes and I thought that was fantastic. But I was also in Kroger the other day and the cigarettes are in a locked case up front and the NRT's are in a locked case in the pharm. Granted, they could have decided to do it that way as a company, but all together, like the alcohol is, allows for adults to make choices.
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