Fda news release

[trog100]

at least half the time - we can't believe our own government or the fda

so what makes you think we are going to believe any of you over there ?

your industries have a very bad reputation around the world and it makes perfect sense why we would not trust them - i think that might be a big reason for some of this recent trouble with ecigs being given a bad image

tell your manufacturers to PROVE IT ! and if they don't do it very soon - this whole thing may be locked down forever

you say ' most eliquid don't have deg in it right now '

THANKS A LOT FOR NOTHING !

those people put poison in consumables and then they wonder why they get put in prison and put to death ?

it is their own fault if they get shut down if they are putting deg in the juice !

i have more than 10 bottles of juice from 4 different places

now i wonder which ones are most and which ones are poison ?

the best thing they could do - is destroy every drop of juice that has even the slightest bit of deg in it and DO NOT SHIP IT TO CONSUMERS ! ! !

otherwise if any more tests are done on tainted juice then it will be GAME OVER - do not pass GO - do not collect 200 dollars and hand over the dice - you don't get to roll any more .

and without the people you are attacking none of us would have e cigs in the first place.. the world isnt a perfect one.. and even if the chinese exactly followed your wishes.. would you or the FDA believe them.. ??

the "game" is a voluntary one anyway... either choose to go back to tobacco or get off the lot.. you dont have to play it..

trog

 

[harmony gardens]

let me tell all people in the forum about what happend in China now after FDA released it's statement on July 23
1. All big order (including NJOY's )from America are stop now, waiting the new instruction or information from US
2. All ecig manufacturer are confused now, and worrying about that FDA will finally ban ecig, even FDA don't ban ecig now, it will be the strongle effection for all ecig market in the world
3. The ecig manufacturer's other material supplier are not happy with ecig manufacturer now, because ecig manufactur don't have a clear future
4. Big e-liquid supplier revising their liquid now, in fact, most e-liquid from the big e-liquid supplier don't have diethylene glycol any more, but for nitrosamines, some e-liquid manufacturer are testing whether without it is OK, some manufacturer can offer the e-liquid without nitrosamines, and some manufacturer will also have an announcement that their liquid will don't have diethylene glycol and nitrosamines, I will post a one here if I have and if I could
5. ecig manufacturer still worry: even e-liquid don't have these two material, does FDA believe? will FDA testing the new cartridges again? even they test, will they release the new testing result to the public?..

I'd say this is something the you should be working with the ECA on.

 

[edlogic]

and without the people you are attacking none of us would have e cigs in the first place.. the world isnt a perfect one.. and even if the chinese exactly followed your wishes.. would you or the FDA believe them.. ??

the "game" is a voluntary one anyway... either choose to go back to tobacco or get off the lot.. you dont have to play it..

trog

that is like saying that without nasa - no one would have ever been able to go to the moon -
or if thomas edison hadn't been born then we would never have seen the light of a bulb

in case you didn't know there were vaporizers before the ecig
there are even toy vaporizers to make fog from propylene glycol
so i guess from your standpoint that it takes a chinese genius to figure out how to put nicotine in glycerine and vaporize it and breath it ?

besides - if they are putting a known toxin into the juice then they darn well deserve to be attacked - and if they do such a poor job of producing and regulating the products then they deserve to fail

( what ? - like the banks that did so poorly - do they deserve a bail out if they are guilty of introducing poison into the sytem ? or should they be left to fall on their own guilty faces ? )

next subject

diethylene glycol

http://www.who.int/ipcs/poisons/pim_diethyleneglcol.pdf

this doc says an atidote is ethanol but it also says ->

In an emergency, an equivalent amount of any alcoholic drink may be administered orally​

i hardly ever drink and i haven't had a drop of any alcohol in over a year - time to get some beers or wine ...​

 

[surbitonPete]

This is a good little video....I have posted it because it just goes to show how little 'meaning' there is in any report that says it has found carcinogens in vaping. They find them in just about everything!!
YouTube - Ames Test - Carcinogens and Natural foods

 

[edlogic]

This is a good little video....I have posted it because it just goes to show how little 'meaning' there is in any report that says it has found carcinogens in vaping. They find them in just about everything!!

interesting - i have not studied this so please pardon my ignorance ->

but it sure seems that the ames test is inconclusive without further verification of the absense of the enzyme after chemical introduction

because - isn't it possible that after the bacteria ingest the chemical that allows them to grow that possibly it is due to the correct enzyme being manufactured by the metabolic process ?

therefore the chemical may not be mutagenic but enzymatic ?

so natural foods might not be mutagenic while pesticides probably are ...

 

[SharonLM]

4. Big e-liquid supplier revising their liquid now, in fact, most e-liquid from the big e-liquid supplier don't have diethylene glycol any more, but for nitrosamines, some e-liquid manufacturer are testing whether without it is OK, some manufacturer can offer the e-liquid without nitrosamines, and some manufacturer will also have an announcement that their liquid will don't have diethylene glycol and nitrosamines, I will post a one here if I have and if I could

Then Doc says:
I've NEVER HEARD of "Diethylene Glycol" being used in ANY vaping juices. That would be INSANE! That stuff crystallizes!


Coco, first please know I'm not attacking, just asking. And, I thank you for at least posting to let us know, but.....you say above, "most e-liquid from the big e-liquid supplier don't have diethylene glycol any more.

My word, does that mean there's a chance that most of my stash probably contains it and Doc says this stuff crystallizes? Geez, I feel better, NOT!

 

[Coco]

firstly, I need to clear here first: I'm not the liquid supplier, secondly, I also want to clear, that is: I just want to tell people here what as I known within my poor knowlage, third, my word not stands for all ecig or e-liquid manufacturer's word, and the fourth, I care about this ecig industrial, you know, this is an industrial now, so many people, no matter Chinese people or America people, all are so care this industrial now

secondly, some questions I can't answer, but I will try

for the liquid, as far as I know, it seems that some liquid with PG, but the real and famous e-liquid supplier never with DEG, but I can't sure that all e-liquid supplier never with DEG, Japanese distributor produce e-liquid by themselves, so the Japan e-liquid don't have PG

for the nitrosamines, some famous e-liquid said they don't have it, some admited that they have, but the content is very very small, only several point ppb

 

[SharonLM]

firstly, I need to clear here first: I'm not the liquid supplier, secondly, I also want to clear, that is: I just want to tell people here what as I known within my poor knowlage, third, my word not stands for all ecig or e-liquid manufacturer's word, and the fourth, I care about this ecig industrial, you know, this is an industrial now, so many people, no matter Chinese people or America people, all are so care this industrial now

secondly, some questions I can't answer, but I will try

for the liquid, as far as I know, it seems that some liquid with PG, but the real and famous e-liquid supplier never with DEG, but I can't sure that all e-liquid supplier never with DEG, Japanese distributor produce e-liquid by themselves, so the Japan e-liquid don't have PG

for the nitrosamines, some famous e-liquid said they don't have it, some admited that they have, but the content is very very small, only several point ppb

Thanks Coco, I feel a "little" better. I just hope these chemicals aren't in my e-liquid.

 

[grimmer255]

let me tell all people in the forum about what happend in China now after FDA released it's statement on July 23
1. All big order (including NJOY's )from America are stop now, waiting the new instruction or information from US
2. All ecig manufacturer are confused now, and worrying about that FDA will finally ban ecig, even FDA don't ban ecig now, it will be the strongle effection for all ecig market in the world
3. The ecig manufacturer's other material supplier are not happy with ecig manufacturer now, because ecig manufactur don't have a clear future
4. Big e-liquid supplier revising their liquid now, in fact, most e-liquid from the big e-liquid supplier don't have diethylene glycol any more, but for nitrosamines, some e-liquid manufacturer are testing whether without it is OK, some manufacturer can offer the e-liquid without nitrosamines, and some manufacturer will also have an announcement that their liquid will don't have diethylene glycol and nitrosamines, I will post a one here if I have and if I could
5. ecig manufacturer still worry: even e-liquid don't have these two material, does FDA believe? will FDA testing the new cartridges again? even they test, will they release the new testing result to the public?..

I guess the best thing to do for now is to have the manufactures from china test every large batch made. Just take sample and send it to a lab. it might slow down production but it will keep them in business for now....I dont know if this is possible though.

 

[Coco]

I guess the best thing to do for now is to have the manufactures from china test every large batch made. Just take sample and send it to a lab. it might slow down production but it will keep them in business for now....I dont know if this is possible though.

----In fact, the cartridges has Clinical testing report, also has SGS report

 

[Sar]

... I care about this ecig industrial, you know, this is an industrial now, so many people, no matter Chinese people or America people, all are so care this industrial now...

... ecig manufacturer still worry: even e-liquid don't have these two material, does FDA believe? will FDA testing the new cartridges again? even they test, will they release the new testing result to the public?..

I think that most manufacturers (liquid or hardware) in the e-cig industry are currently in China. The industry must be pro-active and not wait for what FDA will or will not do. The industry must invest -- not only in manufacturing and production but also on PR and quality control.

The next step from China should be:
a) public announcement from the e-cig industry manufacturers that they believe in the quality of the product and are ready to adopt quality control process the FDA may require.
b) public offer to completely underwrite the world's most comprehensive testing of the liquid content and its effects to be done by independent lab in the US.

 

[Coco]

Sar, thank you very much for your suggestion, but pls tell me which lab is the independent lab in US, I want to do some thing for this industrial, but I can't promise any thing, I just want to say: I would like to try

 

[Sar]

Sar, thank you very much for your suggestion, but pls tell me which lab is the independent lab in US, I want to do some thing for this industrial, but I can't promise any thing, I just want to say: I would like to try

Coco, the best way to do something like this would be with the Electronic Cigarette Association (ECA) -- a trade organization that is based in US. They have a website and also subforum here.

Their website:
Electronic Cigarette Association

The subforum here:
ECA - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

You can find contact information there. Please contact them. If you are serious, you will need to let them know who you are and what organization or companies you speak for.

 

[Coco]

I heard that some famous e-liquid manufacturer want to associate with some ecig manufacturer and NJOY to do something for this case now, but the e-liquid manufacturer hope to talk face to face, hope that it is the real news, if it is, then I think maybe they will have a meeting next week

 

[jpeters1]

Hello everybody,
Long time listener, first time caller.

I have literally read all 54 pages on here and just have a few rants/ points/ thoughts.

It is extremely obvious that this is a money issue, no question about that. When the tobacco companies and groups such as the American Heart and Lung Association are on the same side, that raises a big red flag for me as it should for the rest of the world. I.E. Media of all types and the general public itself. How can the majority of people not find it strange that in the times of being "green", the F'n Dumb A**'s trying to fight this issue with such force and nothing but idiotic accusations lacking valid points/proof. If they want to go down that road then lets compare this with the issue of conventional VS Hybrid and natural gas vehicles which were brought out for the sake of emissions emitted into the air we share. Companies panic because they are going to lose money. Perhaps tobacco companies should take a leading step and jump on to be the first to market their tobacco derived nicotine into carts for people like us whom chose the obviously healthier choice to vape. A lot of folks will never quit smoking cigs and these companies are IMHO in no danger of going under. I won't even touch the "child" argument because I am a 27 year old who will be enjoying a video game and eating candy as I vape later today while enjoying a flavored beverage of choice because it is what I; as an adult consumer; enjoys. I will leave it at that. It is plain to see there is much less risk involved all around whether for 2nd handers, chilren and consumers. Its all about the Benjamins baby.

Also:
Comparing an analog and a PV is like comparing apples to oranges which I believe is part of the problem. I myself do not like the fact that they make PV's to even remotely resemble a cigarette. For this reason I purchased the brown Smoore 401 w/ green LEDto not give the illusion that it is an "analog". I believe the more we keep referring to vaping as smoking etc. etc., the more we just set ourselves up to be let down. They are two different animals and should be treated as such with regulations and laws protecting all parties involved. (Including our right to know what we consume into our bodies and our right to make decisions based upon those findings) We need to voice the fact that though these have been coined as Electronic cigarettes that you "smoke"; they are in fact; neither. We must eliminate the term cigarette from these products and forums when referring to Vaping devices and actually; everywhere related to PV's. I will prove my point in one sentence.

cigarette
Noun:
a thin roll of shredded tobacco in thin paper, for smoking [French: a little cigar]

Does that sound anything like a PV to any of you?

Sorry for the length of this post but after 54 pages; I had to get this off my chest. There are many things I would love say but have been covered to death on here so I will spare you all the re-runs. There were more that weren't covered but in the midst of my ranting I forgot. To be continued perhaps....

MEANS TO OUR E.N.D.S. Electronic-Nicotine-Delivery-Systems

Jason P

PS: I know a few bar owners around SLC, UT and will be making the rounds to have them make the announcement that they are Vapor Friendly and Welcomed Establishments. We need to get the word out so maybe we should all do the same.

Thanks for reading.

 

[seminolewind]

I agree with you about the PV's looking like and referred to as e-cigarettes, and all the verbs that go with it. I like my box mod, it looks like a mini cell phone.
But, as much as I don't want PV's to be associated with analogs, it was exactly the association that got us all here in the first place.

Smokers do not have any rights, smokers' input means squat, no matter what a smoker says, as long as you're a smoker, no one hears you or wants to here you. When smokers quit and swear that the PV was the Godsend they were looking for, much of society will believe that we have discovered something that will allow us to get around smoking "rules"; we are always up to no good.
This lady at work claims I didn't really quit smoking because I still make the habitual actions, inhale, exhale, hand to mouth. I tell her that those actions do not and never hurt anyone. It was the burning tobacco that's the bad thing. She will not even listen to me. And this is a woman whose best friends are smokers.

 

[careful_193]

OH, just got the news today about the FDA's report, and the ban in Oregon. Did SE and Njoy give these samples or were they hijacked? I know alot of people on this forum have reported receiving e-cig supplies that were tampered with. Like I said on another thread, the FDA was doing this testing all along-otherwise they could not call it a drug delivery/device combo. product. Like sun said earlier, the FDA has brought the hammer down. I expect other states will follow suit soon. These companies in China need to "step up to the plate", like someone had mentioned earlier. SE and Njoy took on the FDA, and the outcome looks bleak. For all the suppliers: Now what?... Getting stuck with e-cigs and cannot market them... What about all the e-smokers that rely on them to not smoke cigarettes? However, I am still hoping the e-cig will be tested and regulated. We all need to know what we are vaping-I personally, would like to know. I am ticked off at the FDA for this "Phillip Morris Tobacco Bill"- Nothing will change-and people will keep on dying from smoking their cigarettes...Somebody better come up with a way for us to vape legally, smokers need this, (or a similar product)to simulate the action of smoking, the whole "hand to mouth"thing is a *itch to overcome. Yay FDA, and YAY big tobacco, once again-thank you for continuing to screw over the american public!

 

[seminolewind]

It boils down to fear. Fear that their cash cows will dry up and fear that they might actually have to listen to a smoker with respect, and actually acknowledge that we are entitled to fair treatment.

A few weeks ago, I was standing outside of Red Lobster vaping, and this woman walks by and makes a face and starts fanning the air. It didn't matter to her that there was no smoke and no one smoking. It mattered that she got to show her disdain to a lowly smoker . We've been too obliging for too long.

 

[djmikekc]

Feel free to steal, paraphrase etc:

One simply MUST be wary of the motivation behind the campaign to ban the sale of electronic cigarettes in the United States. Actual foul smelling, cancer-causing paper-wrapped tobacco combustion devices WILL cause the deaths of over 400,000 Americans this year, as they do every year. Why should our government want to prevent the 100,000 of us (so far) who have used the e-cig to completely quit or significantly reduce our smoking habit from choosing a safer way to receive our doses of nicotine?

If a news reporter would go past the FDA press release and dig into the science of the study, she would find that the actual data shows that the e-cig is orders of magnitude safer than the analog alternative produced by Big Tobacco. In fact, the FDA didn't compare the safety of the e-cig to an actual cigarette, but to a nicotine inhaler produced by Big Pharm. As it turns out, the facts presented in the study tell us that those two products are equally safe.

I plan to exercise my certain unalienable Right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness by breaking up with Big Tobacco and hooking up with vaporized liquid nicotine. I would appreciate it if Uncle Sam minds his own business.

The scariest words in the universe - "we are the Government, and we are here to protect you."

 

[stavros flatley]

There's so much money / power against ecigs.

It's going to be an uphill battle for common sense to prevail.