Nate - All very good points that I cannot dispute. This is definitely a war over semantics. It is somewhat of a shame that the tobacco bill did not go the extra step to define nicotine in an existing category or possibly even a new.
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Jo-
Thank you for the acknowledgement that there are valid reasons for concern, especially in the coming weeks. If you are unable to address my concerns, could you pass them on to others at the ECA? Maybe they can weigh in on this?
-Nate
Nate - DoneI am also forwarding on your idea regarding regulation. Found the thread over at VF.
jo
Thank you
I look forward to hearing anything they have to say on the matter(s).Do you have a link or something? You're being pretty vague here.
If I could find it I would post the link my freind--it is right in one of the FDA threads and it would not be right for me to call out who stated it--but they did and they would know--I would hope. It stated that the report would be released on the Wendsday following the FDA's release of their results and it was in answer to my question whether or not NJOY or SE had any tests to refute the FDA's findings.
Sun
It looks like this (what used to be posted on the header of their website) statement is probably what you are referring to:
(emphasis mine)NJOY said:
I don't see a claim that they, or that the Exponent independent study, found NJOY products to completely clean. Maybe safe enough to not pose a health risk, but certainly not "clean as a whistle."
If you're referring to a different NJOY statement than the one made above, I'd love to see it.
Sun is correct that nJoy did do it's own study regarding their products and the findings were to be very positive, clean. They were supposed to release it last Wednesday, however, they came out with a review of the FDA study instead.
The only thing I can come up with is that their lawyers have withheld it due to current litigation. Who knows... but I will certainly follow up and ask.
One thing to also remember is that the FDA report was done at levels that would not necessarily be done by anyone when studying the toxicity of products within a cigarette or an NRT. There would be no need as ppm would pick up whatever would need to be seen. The FDA report was done in ppb instead of ppm which is what testing is usually done in. This could be another reason the study was withheld. This is only my speculation.
It is extremely possible that the toxicity report done by the third party lab on nJoy's behalf was done in ppm, and the report could very well have been "clean as a whistle". As I have not actually seen the report this is only my assumption.
The only thing I can come up with is that their lawyers have withheld it due to current litigation. Who knows... but I will certainly follow up and ask.
One thing to also remember is that the FDA report was done at levels that would not necessarily be done by anyone when studying the toxicity of products within a cigarette or an NRT. There would be no need as ppm would pick up whatever would need to be seen. The FDA report was done in ppb instead of ppm which is what testing is usually done in. This could be another reason the study was withheld. This is only my speculation.
It is extremely possible that the toxicity report done by the third party lab on nJoy's behalf was done in ppm, and the report could very well have been "clean as a whistle". As I have not actually seen the report this is only my assumption.
Our House--It was a post and I can not find the damn thing. It stated that NJOY had already done a study and was going to release it and it did not contain any by-products and was going to be released. Then out of the blue comes this POST study that was done after the FDA's study. A key word search for it is not pulling it up.
Sun
I read almost all of the messages and NJOY's release but admittedly did not memorize them. But here is my recollection of events and things said:
The FDA had a press release stating the electronic cigarettes were found to contain nitrosamines and DEG, a chemical akin to a common ingredient in antifreeze.
As we all know, the press took the bait and started spewing headlines that e-cigs contain antifreeze.
NJOY said that none of their samples included DEG.
The report NJOY subsequently released backed that claim up. None of their samples included DEG and were, therefore, "clean". However, their samples did include nitrosamines. But that was to be expected since their liquid is derived from tobacco. The point they made is the level of nitrosamines is comparable (or less than) the levels found in FDA-approved NRTs.
I do not recall NJOY ever claiming that their samples were completely clean from nitrosamines. Just DEG.
The FDA had a press release stating the electronic cigarettes were found to contain nitrosamines and DEG, a chemical akin to a common ingredient in antifreeze.
As we all know, the press took the bait and started spewing headlines that e-cigs contain antifreeze.
NJOY said that none of their samples included DEG.
The report NJOY subsequently released backed that claim up. None of their samples included DEG and were, therefore, "clean". However, their samples did include nitrosamines. But that was to be expected since their liquid is derived from tobacco. The point they made is the level of nitrosamines is comparable (or less than) the levels found in FDA-approved NRTs.
I do not recall NJOY ever claiming that their samples were completely clean from nitrosamines. Just DEG.
Sun -
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...a-press-release-7-22-repost-6.html#post439454
Posts 37-40 are our conversation... Is this what you were referring to?
Greg--the issue goes to the fact that NJOY stated that they had done one PRIOR to the FDA's--hence we all thought that NJOY was on the ball and SE was not---only to find NJOY releases a post FDA test. So where is the pre-FDA test?
Sun
Don't forget the government and the cigarette manufacturers sleep together. can you say loss of Ka Ching!!!!
It's only been a week, but I put down the analogs the minute I was able to vape and I have not looked back since....except to cut back on my vaping because of the nicotine (I cant stop)
Once I get my nic under control, I will be waning and smoking 0nic fluids!
I have been the same way. Smoke free since my first vape.
What is funny to me is that propolene glycol is the solution they use in fog machines. The same ones you see at parties, dance clubs, weddings et. . . . Everyone is inhaling that at those functions. So they better ban the fog machine huh?
Well, either that or put nicotine and flavoring in it.
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I really wish that was the case and it was that simple---do a little more reading in the news section and you will see what we are up against.
Sun
If only this were true. There is far more to the FDA requirements than a labelling regulation. Look more closely at their arguments.
If one isn't careful with PG, there can be some undesirable symptoms. Johnson Creek publishes the safety sheet on PG. You will find the potential symptoms listed there. Caution is good. After all, I didn't normally light a cigarette off a gas stove burner. Some of my friends did
Dave
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