FDA FDA's leaked guidance for PMTAs confirm deeming reg would ban >99.9% of nicotine vapor products

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DC2

Tootie Puffer
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Jun 21, 2009
24,161
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San Diego
I'm going to stop obeying red lights when there are no other cars in sight. If enough people do likewise, they won't be able to stop us.
I often turn left on a red light when there are no cars coming.
And, of course, only if I am sure there are no cops.

I've also been known to not even slow down for stops signs sometimes.
Again, only when there are no cars and no cops around.

After 50 years of driving on this planet, my driving record is spotless.

I'm so bad.
:laugh:
 

nicnik

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 20, 2015
2,649
5,220
Illinois, USA
I often turn left on a red light when there are no cars coming.
And, of course, only if I am sure there are no cops.

I've also been known to not even slow down for stops signs sometimes.
Again, only when there are no cars and no cops around.

After 50 years of driving on this planet, my driving record is spotless.

I'm so bad.
:laugh:
Yay!

And everybody knows, just because the light turns green, doesn't mean it's safe to proceed...
 

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
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saint paul,mn,usa

One of the infamous supposed lies from BT. Don't get me wrong. I am not claiming BT
are any thing close to being paragons of virtue. The fact of the mater is nicotine in and of
itself hasn't been of any real heath concern since the 1964 Surgeon Generals Report on Smoking
said as much.


"
page 41
The habitual use of tobacco is related primarily to psychological and
social drives, reinforced and perpetuated by the pharmacological actions
of nicotine.
Social stimulation appears to play a major role in a young person’s early
and first experiments with smoking. No scientific evidence supports the
popular hypothesis that smoking among adolescents is an expression
rebellion against authority. Individual stress appears to be associated more
with fluctuations in the amount of smoking than with the prevalence of smoking.
The overwhelming evidence indicates that smoking-its beginning,
habituation, and occasional discontinuation-is to a very large extent psychologically
and socially determined.
Nicotine is rapidly changed in the body to relatively inactive substances
with low toxicity. The chronic toxicity of small doses of nicotine is low
in experimental animals. These two facts, when taken in conjunction with
the low mortality ratios of pipe and cigar smokers, indicate that the chronic
toxicity of nicotine in quantities absorbed from smoking and other methods
of tobacco use is very low and probably does not represent an important
health hazard. "
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/nnbbmq.pdf

We now know that what the BT representatives were attesting too was more or less
true. If not technically 100% true, it was true enough for a reasonable person
to conclude they were not perpetuating a lie.
http://www.formindep.org/The-myth-of-nicotine-addiction.html

I am all for making reasonable comparisons concerning health claims as it pertains
to smoking v vaping however, perpetuating myths alleging the supposed lies of
BT will ultimately backfire. Personally having smoked for 38 years and having
to live through the humiliation and, forced segregation imposed on me by my
own government I am acutely aware of the consequences that arise from what
is essentially a misrepresentation of fact used to promote social and political
outcomes.
Respectfully submitted,
Mike
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
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Aug 24, 2013
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Last edited:

OldBatty

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Nov 28, 2014
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Nicotine is so dangerous, our government chose to indemnify the tobacco industry of liability for the consequences of its use in cigarettes and addict themselves to tax revenues from their sale.

Yep, got it. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Thanks.

Good luck all. :)

p.s. But skoony, you're a repeat offender :)...FDA proposes banning more truthful claims about vaping, challenges Judge Leon's 2010 court ruling | E-Cigarette Forum

So it is safe to say that tax revenue is far more addictive than nicotine.

Oh and I have been a repeat offender for posting that quote. Just remember it is in chapter 4 page 32 of the original report, page 41 of the on-line .pdf.
 

nicnik

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 20, 2015
2,649
5,220
Illinois, USA
One of the infamous supposed lies from BT. Don't get me wrong. I am not claiming BT
are any thing close to being paragons of virtue. The fact of the mater is nicotine in and of
itself hasn't been of any real heath concern since the 1964 Surgeon Generals Report on Smoking
said as much.


"
page 41
The habitual use of tobacco is related primarily to psychological and
social drives, reinforced and perpetuated by the pharmacological actions
of nicotine.
Social stimulation appears to play a major role in a young person’s early
and first experiments with smoking. No scientific evidence supports the
popular hypothesis that smoking among adolescents is an expression
rebellion against authority. Individual stress appears to be associated more
with fluctuations in the amount of smoking than with the prevalence of smoking.
The overwhelming evidence indicates that smoking-its beginning,
habituation, and occasional discontinuation-is to a very large extent psychologically
and socially determined.
Nicotine is rapidly changed in the body to relatively inactive substances
with low toxicity. The chronic toxicity of small doses of nicotine is low
in experimental animals. These two facts, when taken in conjunction with
the low mortality ratios of pipe and cigar smokers, indicate that the chronic
toxicity of nicotine in quantities absorbed from smoking and other methods
of tobacco use is very low and probably does not represent an important
health hazard. "
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/nnbbmq.pdf

We now know that what the BT representatives were attesting too was more or less
true. If not technically 100% true, it was true enough for a reasonable person
to conclude they were not perpetuating a lie.
http://www.formindep.org/The-myth-of-nicotine-addiction.html

I am all for making reasonable comparisons concerning health claims as it pertains
to smoking v vaping however, perpetuating myths alleging the supposed lies of
BT will ultimately backfire. Personally having smoked for 38 years and having
to live through the humiliation and, forced segregation imposed on me by my
own government I am acutely aware of the consequences that arise from what
is essentially a misrepresentation of fact used to promote social and political
outcomes.
Respectfully submitted,
Mike
A couple of them answered saying they don't believe that smoking is addictive. The others, I guess, were just towing the Surgeon General's line.
 
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rico942

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 12, 2013
1,444
3,057
Carlsbad, CA
I often turn left on a red light when there are no cars coming.
And, of course, only if I am sure there are no cops.

I've also been known to not even slow down for stops signs sometimes.
Again, only when there are no cars and no cops around.

After 50 years of driving on this planet, my driving record is spotless.

I'm so bad.
:laugh:

If no one sees it, it never happened ... ;)

Kinda like stealth vaping ... :sneaky:
 

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
5,692
9,952
68
saint paul,mn,usa
Nicotine is so dangerous, our government chose to indemnify the tobacco industry of liability for the consequences of its use in cigarettes and addict themselves to tax revenues from their sale.

Yep, got it. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Thanks.

Good luck all. :)

p.s. But skoony, you're a repeat offender :)...FDA proposes banning more truthful claims about vaping, challenges Judge Leon's 2010 court ruling | E-Cigarette Forum
How do I plead? guilty as charged on all counts Your Honor.
:cool:
mike
 

bnrkwest

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 6, 2011
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Somewhere out there
What is interesting is that they say any product considered to be a smoking cessation device will be considered a drug or device and not a tobacco product. So they are trapping us either way. So how can FDA say vaping is a tobacco product but nicotine gun is not? Is nicotine gum classed as a drug now? This is very confusing!
 
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