Fellow Christians, A question in regards to the morality of Vape

[earthpig]

I had read in one thread where it is considered non-christian to use e-cigs.
Now I don't have a problem with it, and yet trust me, I'm not going to spark it off in Church but I wanted to get others take on the issue.

I am AOG which most might consider quite narrow in scope and in many cases legalistic, and even among the members I have gotten to know, I have been open about my smoking (yes I'm still working it down and out). Most have no issues with it, except to say it isn't good and then the other comment is " Your body is the temple..." . I get that ands it is part of the reason I'm quitting, and have also started exercise as well as lost ~40 lbs,

When I have brought up the e-cigs to some of the members, they seemed very enthusiastic for me about them. I considered that a plus. I also am in the sideline business of selling e-cigs, and they also have had little issues with it...Definitely a flurry of questions, but when all is said and done, they all ((at least those I've filled in)) seem good with it..

How about you all?

I figure there will be a positive bias here, and expect it but I certainly would love to hear others take on the subject, considering we are of like mind (for the most part) and in like practice here as well.

Dan/Pig

 

[trukinlady]

Romans 14:14 says:
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

1 Corinthians 10:23
23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.

I think it is up to each person to decide. I believe if something--whatever it may be, i.e. vaping, smoking, eating, etc--becomes more important to a person than their walk with Him, then to that person it becomes sin.
God should be first in our lives, above all things. Amen!!

 

[earthpig]

Thanks for responding, trukin...
I think this is actually a tough question for many.

Your first verse is a food reference for Jewish dietary, so I think that's off some.
The Corinthian reference hits on it.

I can't think right off of the reference , but if something we do would make another person fall , don't do it in front of them.
I kind of take e-cigs as a means of doing the opposite to those who smoke. We are sorta leading them off of what is harmful.

 

[Southern Gent]

Thanks for responding, trukin...

I can't think right off of the reference , but if something we do would make another person fall , don't do it in front of them.
I kind of take e-cigs as a means of doing the opposite to those who smoke. We are sorta leading them off of what is harmful.

The act of being a stumbling block? Not hardly. Here is where lies the problem, the determination of what is sin and what is not. The truth of the matter is this: Only the "weaker" brethren would consider vaping, smoking, having a drink with dinner to be a sin. They have no proof that it is sin, only that it is referred by someone else as sin therefore becoming sin. Now consider this, if all Christians simply folded to the doctrine of the "weaker" brethren, where would we be? Soon life would be intolerable and we would be back under law subject to the interpretation of sin. No, not as a stumbling block but certainly an opportunity to teach what the Bible says is sin and what is not. That said, clearly anything that is placed before God is sin.

Your body as a temple is a gross misinterpretation and usage of scripture. If Paul meant this scripture to be used as it has been interpreted for centuries, then Paul is a liar.
Paul later says "that bodily exercise profits little" and that spiritual exercise is where God is found.

Now which do you suppose it is? Is Paul a liar or is our interpretation and usage wrong?
I think I'll go with the latter....

 

[earthpig]

S Gent
Thanks for your take.
It is somewhat were my mindset is as well. I don't consider issues sin unless a conviction is raised by the Spirit, and if we run close to it "we will get the indication". Now there are items spelled out quite clearly but in those grey areas I try and use better judgment and (again) let the Spirit guide/convict.
That also translates in me not being judgmental as well. After all, if there were things to do wrong , good chance I ran the list through.

 

[luceblueboy]

southern gent is exactly right. I've never smoked cigarettes but cigars. I've talked to more people about Jesus through smoking cigars than any other time. They opened up to me because I was on their level. I've been judged to the extreme for this, especially because I'm a youth pastor, but I just shed it off. I know God wanted me at that smoke shop. If I wouldn't have gone then a guy in his 20's would be dead. I never would have met him, convinced him suicide was not the answer, nor been there when his mom died (who was his caretaker since he was epileptic and diabetic, both were living out of their car). I would've never met his mom who started going back to church and died joyful because she got her life back in line with Jesus. After I tell that story, the judges simply can't say a word

 

[Southern Gent]

southern gent is exactly right. I've never smoked cigarettes but cigars. I've talked to more people about Jesus through smoking cigars than any other time. They opened up to me because I was on their level. I've been judged to the extreme for this, especially because I'm a youth pastor, but I just shed it off. I know God wanted me at that smoke shop. If I wouldn't have gone then a guy in his 20's would be dead. I never would have met him, convinced him suicide was not the answer, nor been there when his mom died (who was his caretaker since he was epileptic and diabetic, both were living out of their car). I would've never met his mom who started going back to church and died joyful because she got her life back in line with Jesus. After I tell that story, the judges simply can't say a word

Key word: judges
There is but one and everybody else that votes is wasting their time.

 

[stillalive]

I read an utterly ridiculous article on a "Christian" website that seriously compared homosexuality, smoking, and drinking wine with murder, torture, and child molestation. I'm sorry, I don't care if "all sins are equal in God's eyes", I'm pretty sure God is smart enough to know the difference between something that only (potentially) hurts the person doing it and an act of pure evil that hurts and ruins multiple lives!

Personally, I don't even believe any of those first three things are sins. If a consenting adult wants to drink, smoke, or have sex with someone (also consenting) of the same gender, that's really their decision, not the churches'. I believe that God gave the ancient Hebrews (our spiritual if not physical ancestors) commandments like "don't have gay sex," "don't eat pork," "don't touch women who are on their period," and "only poop outside the camping area and bury it when you're done" for safety reasons. We now live in an age of condoms, refrigerators, hand sanitizer, and indoor plumbing, and God seems to have relaxed on those laws a little!

So for me, since I believe God is mainly looking out for our health and safety, I have to believe that they don't care whether we vape or not. We are doing something much healthier than the alternative, and we are not hurting anyone in doing so. I've heard so many "Christians" say ridiculous things about what Christians can or can't do and still be Christian, but I have to say not being allowed to vape is up there with not being allowed to watch television!

 

[Saintscruiser]

Well that was a huge leap.....vaping to homosexuality. Let's go one subject at a time. First and foremost, the rule of thumb is that we compare ourselves to Jesus, not to other people. So, would Jesus smoke? Would Jesus vape? Would Jesus be a homosexual? He is our example, and no where does the Word of God say He did any of these. I can say this without a shadow of a doubt. Our goal in life, once we become a Blood Bought Born Again Christian, is to live and be like Jesus. You see, when you start comparing yourself to other people, you feel rather confident since you haven't murdered anyone, robbed any banks, etc.

Is smoking a sin? For me, yes it was. The Lord convicted me many times about this and I just couldn't stop.....until I discovered an e-cig. I have not smoked a cigarette since last July. Do I miss it? Yes, at times I do.....but I can't see putting that heavy smoke back into my lungs again. So at this point, vaping is much safer that smoking. My doctor is happy about it. I have gained 25 lbs. since last July too. I don't think I could have stopped smoking on my own. My husband did.....cold turkey.....almost 6 years ago. I just don't feel like such a leper anymore. God wanted me to quit smoking because of health problems. I don't put tar and carcinegins (sp) in my lungs anymore. It has been a major step for me and I'm about to celebrate my 10th month without cigarettes. Can I imagine Jesus vaping? No, I can't.

Now I will broach the subject of homosexuality. The Bible is chocked full of relations between men and women. It states many times that homosexuality is sin.....even using the word abomination. Now you either believe that the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of God or you don't. If you do, then you can't miss what the Scriptures say on the subject of homosexuality. I didn't write the Bible....God did, and if someone has a problem with those Scriptures, I can't help it. That is something you have to take up with Almighty God. Do I shun homosexuals? No. I love the sinner, but hate the sin. If people choose to continue living in this lifestyle, they answer to God, not me. I'm a nobody, but I've lived long enough to know that sin has consequences. My mom died of lung cancer because she smoked.....1 year and 7 months ago. She was almost 86 years old. She suffered from her choice in life, but God stayed with her every step of the way.

So there you have it. If this post makes me unpopular, then it does. I wouldn't win any popularity contests anyway! Shalom.

 

[stillalive]

Saintscruiser, if you wear any sort of mixed fabric (cotton polyester blend) then you are committing as much of an "abomination" as me having a girlfriend. The antiquated language of the KJV is extremely misleading to many people today. Ironically enough, my intense Bible-thumping upbringing (extremely conservative Christian school and multiple churches and synagogues!) was what encouraged me to read original texts in as close to the original context as possible. When I did an indepth translation study, I found some MUCH different things than what my pastor or KJV Bible told me!

However, there is a lot of individuality in most religions, and Christianity is no exception. If you personally feel strongly that smoking, drinking, watching television, vaping, or being in a homosexual relationship is wrong, then you certainly shouldn't do something that bothers your conscience. But I think a lot of Christians get confused about the individual part. What's true for one person is not necessarily true for another! I have studied the scriptures intently and in context, spoken long and hard with God and with older Christians I trust and respect, and have finally made peace with who I am. God made me this way, and I personally don't believe anyone who wasn't made this way has any room to speak on that issue. If God didn't make you gay, it probably is a sin for you to be in a gay relationship, lol!

But the bottom line is that we all need to do what is right for ourselves without trying to force other people to conform to our standards. After all, we don't like it when people who believe differently from us try to tell us what we should do or believe, right? Do unto other as you would have them do unto you. But for most Christians, I think it's fair to say that most of us don't consider smoking evil and sinful, despite what my mom says to the contrary. I don't think of it as being any more sinful or evil than a cup of coffee or a bacon cheeseburger.

 

[Saintscruiser]

I don't have a problem with you living your life in anyway you wish. If you wish to smoke, do it. If you wish to vape, do it. If you've chosen the way you wish as far as sexual orientation, do it. I'm not trying to stop you. I was talking about Scripture, and Jesus being our example.

What I do take note on is that you called the Holy Bible 'antiquated.' I'm glad you have studied the Scriptures, because after all that studying, you should know better! So what you're saying is 'God is ol' fashioned. He's not hip or in the zone.....meaning He should be gellin' like Magellan.' You're saying that to the Creator of everything? The created will never be smarter or greater than the Creator. Where were you when He was setting up the foundations of the earth. Did He ask your opinion on anything? When He said in Genesis, "Let Us make man in Our image," were you one of the 'Us?' I think not. This 'antiquated' Book has described history correct, all the way down to today. There will never be peace in the Middle East. God gave the children of Israel the land that He promised them. They are a tiny nation, surrounded by huge Arab nations. As of this moment, Israel still stands as God is protecting them. Praise God!!! Amein!!! And that's all I gotta say on that.

 

[stillalive]

I said the language of the King James Version is antiquated. Huge difference, hon. It was also fairly poorly translated, alas. But since hopefully everyone realizes Jesus didn't walk around speaking King James' English, hopefully people will look into what God *actually* said rather than what some strongly biased interpreters said they said several centuries ago! I'm probably putting too much hope in humanity...

 

[trukinlady]

I read an utterly ridiculous article on a "Christian" website that seriously compared homosexuality, smoking, and drinking wine with murder, torture, and child molestation. I'm sorry, I don't care if "all sins are equal in God's eyes", I'm pretty sure God is smart enough to know the difference between something that only (potentially) hurts the person doing it and an act of pure evil that hurts and ruins multiple lives!

Personally, I don't even believe any of those first three things are sins. If a consenting adult wants to drink, smoke, or have sex with someone (also consenting) of the same gender, that's really their decision, not the churches'. I believe that God gave the ancient Hebrews (our spiritual if not physical ancestors) commandments like "don't have gay sex," "don't eat pork," "don't touch women who are on their period," and "only poop outside the camping area and bury it when you're done" for safety reasons. We now live in an age of condoms, refrigerators, hand sanitizer, and indoor plumbing, and God seems to have relaxed on those laws a little!

So for me, since I believe God is mainly looking out for our health and safety, I have to believe that they don't care whether we vape or not. We are doing something much healthier than the alternative, and we are not hurting anyone in doing so. I've heard so many "Christians" say ridiculous things about what Christians can or can't do and still be Christian, but I have to say not being allowed to vape is up there with not being allowed to watch television!

Saintscruiser, if you wear any sort of mixed fabric (cotton polyester blend) then you are committing as much of an "abomination" as me having a girlfriend. The antiquated language of the KJV is extremely misleading to many people today. Ironically enough, my intense Bible-thumping upbringing (extremely conservative Christian school and multiple churches and synagogues!) was what encouraged me to read original texts in as close to the original context as possible. When I did an indepth translation study, I found some MUCH different things than what my pastor or KJV Bible told me!

However, there is a lot of individuality in most religions, and Christianity is no exception. If you personally feel strongly that smoking, drinking, watching television, vaping, or being in a homosexual relationship is wrong, then you certainly shouldn't do something that bothers your conscience. But I think a lot of Christians get confused about the individual part. What's true for one person is not necessarily true for another! I have studied the scriptures intently and in context, spoken long and hard with God and with older Christians I trust and respect, and have finally made peace with who I am. God made me this way, and I personally don't believe anyone who wasn't made this way has any room to speak on that issue. If God didn't make you gay, it probably is a sin for you to be in a gay relationship, lol!

But the bottom line is that we all need to do what is right for ourselves without trying to force other people to conform to our standards. After all, we don't like it when people who believe differently from us try to tell us what we should do or believe, right? Do unto other as you would have them do unto you. But for most Christians, I think it's fair to say that most of us don't consider smoking evil and sinful, despite what my mom says to the contrary. I don't think of it as being any more sinful or evil than a cup of coffee or a bacon cheeseburger.

I said the language of the King James Version is antiquated. Huge difference, hon. It was also fairly poorly translated, alas. But since hopefully everyone realizes Jesus didn't walk around speaking King James' English, hopefully people will look into what God *actually* said rather than what some strongly biased interpreters said they said several centuries ago! I'm probably putting too much hope in humanity...

stillalive;

This subject is way Off Topic. If you would like to debate, please take it to the Outside forum. It doesn't belong here.

 

[trukinlady]

Well that was a huge leap.....vaping to homosexuality. Let's go one subject at a time. First and foremost, the rule of thumb is that we compare ourselves to Jesus, not to other people. So, would Jesus smoke? Would Jesus vape? Would Jesus be a homosexual? He is our example, and no where does the Word of God say He did any of these. I can say this without a shadow of a doubt. Our goal in life, once we become a Blood Bought Born Again Christian, is to live and be like Jesus. You see, when you start comparing yourself to other people, you feel rather confident since you haven't murdered anyone, robbed any banks, etc.

Is smoking a sin? For me, yes it was. The Lord convicted me many times about this and I just couldn't stop.....until I discovered an e-cig. I have not smoked a cigarette since last July. Do I miss it? Yes, at times I do.....but I can't see putting that heavy smoke back into my lungs again. So at this point, vaping is much safer that smoking. My doctor is happy about it. I have gained 25 lbs. since last July too. I don't think I could have stopped smoking on my own. My husband did.....cold turkey.....almost 6 years ago. I just don't feel like such a leper anymore. God wanted me to quit smoking because of health problems. I don't put tar and carcinegins (sp) in my lungs anymore. It has been a major step for me and I'm about to celebrate my 10th month without cigarettes. Can I imagine Jesus vaping? No, I can't.

Now I will broach the subject of homosexuality. The Bible is chocked full of relations between men and women. It states many times that homosexuality is sin.....even using the word abomination. Now you either believe that the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of God or you don't. If you do, then you can't miss what the Scriptures say on the subject of homosexuality. I didn't write the Bible....God did, and if someone has a problem with those Scriptures, I can't help it. That is something you have to take up with Almighty God. Do I shun homosexuals? No. I love the sinner, but hate the sin. If people choose to continue living in this lifestyle, they answer to God, not me. I'm a nobody, but I've lived long enough to know that sin has consequences. My mom died of lung cancer because she smoked.....1 year and 7 months ago. She was almost 86 years old. She suffered from her choice in life, but God stayed with her every step of the way.

So there you have it. If this post makes me unpopular, then it does. I wouldn't win any popularity contests anyway! Shalom.

Well said, Sis!

 

[earthpig]

Thank you Trukin.
It has drifted.
My point is there are written issues considered non-negotiable in the realm of sin. I won't get into a banter about how KJV varies from NIV or Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic . Most of those issues are easily resolved by going back to original language and have been proven out for generations (2000-4000yrs) as to what is correct and moral as per the relation to law and grace. Most are not even, and are far from grey areas.

My point is when it comes to the non-described issues that are matters for the Spirit to wring out in our lives. I have my own opinions of what is correct here and have a Spirit indication (to a degree) on the vaping front.
Now I ask, how the Spirit has directed others in this ""grey"" area.

Pig

 

[stillalive]

stillalive;

This subject is way Off Topic. If you would like to debate, please take it to the Outside forum. It doesn't belong here.

It was not off-topic in the least. The OP asked other Christians their opinions on vaping as it relates to the Bible, and received very few replies. I replied answering the question with SEVERAL different examples to explain why I believe what I do as a Christian, and someone decided to hone in on one and start a debate. I did nothing wrong, and yet you sided with the real "trouble-maker" if there was one. Since gay people are clearly not welcome in this forum, peace out.

 

[Saintscruiser]

It was not off-topic in the least. The OP asked other Christians their opinions on vaping as it relates to the Bible, and received very few replies. I replied answering the question with SEVERAL different examples to explain why I believe what I do as a Christian, and someone decided to hone in on one and start a debate. I did nothing wrong, and yet you sided with the real "trouble-maker" if there was one. Since gay people are clearly not welcome in this forum, peace out.

I guess you are referring to me. I only answered your post, Still. You are the one who brought up the subject. I chose to answer it. I don't hide from adversity. I do my best to put forth what Scripture states as, like I have already mentioned, I believe the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of God and Jesus is our example.

Why is it that people believe that God parted the Red Sea but can't grasp the fact that He can also write a Book? He has the power to do miracles, but can't write a Book through man and have it put together......okay.

 

[trukinlady]

I am closing this thread before this gets out of hand.