First Coil Build

[Mordacai]

Here's the threads if you want more info, but be warned they are a long read.

Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!
Rayon Wick - Better Flow, Flavor, Longevity, and Nic Hit!! - Pt.2

Folks either use Grahame Cellucotton 100% Rayon, or if you can find it Rayon pharmaceutical coil.

 

[YorkMan]

OK thanks!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I know that I need to study and figure this out for myself but may I ask one simple question?

Are the coil wraps supposed to touch one another or somehow be spaced apart? That is confusing to me for uninsulated wire. I’m used to transformers and coils in audio electronics, not heater coils!

Kanthal by design (it's been around a century) is a heating wire and exudes an alumina (oxide) layer which insulates touching (closed contact) wires electrically. This allows turns to share heat between each other effectively and averting uncontrolled overheating. Otherwise, resistance and accordingly heat output may rise unpredictably. The problem with many winds and products I've seen by the way.

So if you wind with strain producing as above in my picture it's quite simple to "cure" or pre-burn the coil with some low voltage electrical pulses to precipitate the oxidation process (you will observe the surface changes). Such coils tend to fire very evenly end-to-end rather than inside-out which is a clue to their thermal efficiency. But the real treat is that they vape very cool. And that's the tell so to speak that reveals you are vaporizing or conducing that heat to the wick more effectively.

It's a neat trick and I wish I'd been able to pass it along to more folks these past 6-years. Hope you try it and enjoy it.

Try and and figure out early on if the batteries you're using are adequate to the amps you will draw, and…

Good luck.

p.s. 7/64" (2.778mm) is a common bit size and my go to for most single wire single coils as pictured above. But 2.5 is certainly fine. As you add more dia. you'll increase juice flow which will mean more power to get to the vape temp (you like). So want more vapor, inc power and Ø.

 

[HigherStateD]

Kanthal by design (it's been around a century) is a heating wire and exudes an alumina (oxide) layer which insulates touching (closed contact) wires electrically. This allows turns to share heat between each other effectively and averting uncontrolled overheating. Otherwise, resistance and accordingly heat output may rise unpredictably. The problem with many winds and products I've seen by the way.

So if you wind with strain producing as above in my picture it's quite simple to "cure" or pre-burn the coil with some low voltage electrical pulses to precipitate the oxidation process (you will observe the surface changes). Such coils tend to fire very evenly end-to-end rather than inside-out which is a clue to their thermal efficiency. But the real treat is that they vape very cool. And that's the tell so to speak that reveals you are vaporizing or conducing that heat to the wick more effectively.

It's a neat trick and I wish I'd been able to pass it along to more folks these past 6-years. Hope you try it and enjoy it.

Try and and figure out early on if the batteries you're using are adequate to the amps you will draw, and…

Good luck.

p.s. 7/64" (2.778mm) is a common bit size and my go to for most single wire single coils as pictured above. But 2.5 is certainly fine. As you add more dia. you'll increase juice flow which will mean more power to get to the vape temp (you like). So want more vapor, inc power and Ø.

I've been able to replicate that even heating effect with SS316L. I'll have to try with kanthal next.

 

[YorkMan]

Fascinating! Thanks for the great explanation, I appreciate it.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've been able to replicate that even heating effect with SS316L. I'll have to try with kanthal next.

If it's strained wound, magic happens. Thermal output is outstanding and consequently less power wasted as wick receives a very even distribution. Consequently cooler vape at any power gauge by comparison. However, all that means is you're getting closer to the theoretical of the wires potential. If you actually want warmer, thicker wire can get you more vapor at a more manageable temp. That's the vision I had as I started working wire with beginners in the 32 gauge era. Those suckers were hot. But they didn't need to be. Honestly, had I not tested it to an effective end I would have failed with early micro's.

You can also space strained winds (before or after oxidation which is aided by precise contact) but you lose some of the rigidity inferred by tensioning and accordingly some of the durability. You can also lose it by over-burning, as it increases the wire malleability some rigidity is lost. If you limit to low V and pulses you retain a good amount of memory in the wire. Such that I've had clean winds often returned to me after many months, even a year.

I think Kanthal is a wonderful wire for beginners because of the stability of its resistivity. Particularly when taken advantage of by strain winding taking it closer to its optimal.

Have fun with it.

Good luck.

 

[Dr. Seuss]

@YorkMan, you should take a few hours out and watch some build videos on youtube. I guarantee seeing a few done right before you will move you along a lot faster than tinkering on your own. It’s been more than once I’ve been set in my ways thinking I’m doing everything as refined as can be and then I’ll see someone do some little trick and wonder why I didn’t think of it.

A few videos I can think of would be wicking, making spaced coils, tricks for getting your wires to light up evenly, proper placement inside the atty (airholes), just things like that. Seeing someone wrap a tight coil may help you along also. Youtube is an amazing tool for all walks of life.

Depending on how deep you want to go, investing in a good coil making kit will make a night and day difference as well. I started off wrapping around a nail I pulled out of the wall and then picked up a kit and now my coils are epic (if I do say so myself), I enjoy taking time and getting it all perfectly symmetrical and balanced, getting the cotton exactly even etc.

Check out some youtube vids and you’ll know exactly where to take it and then you can tweak it to how your preferences would have it. Good luck with it.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've been able to replicate that even heating effect with SS316L. I'll have to try with kanthal next.

Then you have a very well made wind HSD. I'll have to revisit 316L at some point. Primarily for tobacco. I had some moderate success with very close non-contact wound on screws. With the juices I was working with it played better with rayon. Unfortunately for me rayon seemed to mute some accent notes in complex recipes I enjoy. While like most I find primary flavors flourish with rayon and more so alongside ss. Sorta like the brass section throwin shade on the rest of the band if a tad loud. For tobacco stainless might have to be a compromise to deter gunking along with eliminating some of the absolutes in my pantry.

Thanks for the feedback.

Good luck.

 

[Mordacai]

@MacTechVpr, a lot of folks mention about using Genesis style atomisers with mesh wicks for Tobacco flavours.

Never tried it myself though but seeing as though the wicking used will be some SS mesh, I can see that the flavour would not be affected much if at all.

Anyone know any good Genny clones?

 

[Mordacai]

And sorry @YorkMan, coils that you use in wattage/power/voltage modes are fine with their wraps touching.

They're called contact coils and are considerably easier to wick than spaced coils that are used for TC.

 

[YorkMan]

Oh that makes sense re coil contact. Thanks!

 

[YorkMan]

Second coil/wick build is better! I notice more flavor in the vape. Not expecting that so probably a real effect.

 

[Mordacai]

@YorkMan, looking much more refined now. You can afford to get the wraps closer together, it'll improve things even further.

What wire is this build? Just wondering if it's a TC capable build or not.

And if you want a reasonable spaced TC coil build idea, you can copy my method if you so wish. First of all, I use a Stainless Steel Knitting needle in the relevant diameter for a form. Then I wrap 2 coils at once using 2 pieces of wire then untangle them from each other. Put 1 of the coils at a time back on the needle and squeeze the coil together, then you have a reasonable spaced coil.

 

[MacTechVpr]

View attachment 830095 View attachment 830097 Second coil/wick build is better! I notice more flavor in the vape. Not expecting that so probably a real effect.

Congrats, much better symmetry (consistent contact). Notice your 4 center turns burned in a diff color. Diff thermal temps in operation. Note coils seems to be spreading across the top, accordion-ing if you will. Stress loading with weight of the wick. Makes top of turns spread, bottoms closer varying heat distribution.

Careful too with cotton sag as it continues to break in. Wick may then lose contact with the top of the end-turns. They may go hot as well as the leads. Won't see it in op except perhaps in dim light. Intensity may be below the visible spectrum. But you will def sense it in the vape. Some peeps will go wow this thing is really wailing, if they happen to like that temp. But suppose that's not your preference…it's just not vaporizing optimally.

For spaced turns strain will add some durable rigidity that survives the burn in.

For a pin vise to use common drill bits or drill blanks (up to 4mm Ø)…

Swivel Head Pin Vise with Wood Handle

Nudge me anytime for the method or see the links earlier. Good your testing spacers first for contrast. I'd say closer and neater is best. Think charcoal in your grill.

BTW, for the rda in the pic 3mm would appear to be a bit much for the limited airflow. Check the dia of the 4-airholes. I usually start matching the cum diameter to wind. Without enough air vaporization will be limited.

Good luck.

 

[Mordacai]

@MacTechVpr, nice idea on the use of a screw for making spaced coils.

But I think that if you have a build deck where you can secure the wire across it on opposite sides (Psyclone Entheon or Vapefly Holic for example), you can take out any remaining slack and tension it further when installing the coil.

 

[YorkMan]

Thanks all for the info! It’s Kanthal wire.

 

[YorkMan]

Can ya tell me exactly what winding with strain means? I’ve been trying not to ask....

 

[MacTechVpr]

@MacTechVpr, nice idea on the use of a screw for making spaced coils.

But I think that if you have a build deck where you can secure the wire across it on opposite sides (Psyclone Entheon or Vapefly Holic for example), you can take out any remaining slack and tension it further when installing the coil.

Actually, think about it…it distorts the strain inherent to the wind. Tension is pulling, it minutely stretches the wire, lessening it's resistance. And consequently in relationship to the rest of the wind. All the steps we use in installation have the potential to distort or vary resistance end-to-end potentially resulting in variations in output.

So pull at your own risk.

Good luck.

 

[HigherStateD]

Can ya tell me exactly what winding with strain means? I’ve been trying not to ask....

Tensioning is the difference between a loosely gathered pile of rope, and a TIGHTLY wound coil.

So with wire, you'd want to secure one end in a vise or pliers, and pull as you twist. This extra force forms the wire into a shape, that less easily unwinds. It makes for a more uniform, coil, as there is less slack to flex

 

[YorkMan]

OK I’ll try that on my next coil, thanks!