First Coil Build

[Mordacai]

@MacTechVpr, I'll take achievable accuracy over unobtainable precision.

As winding with constant tension which is evenly applied is nigh on impossible to perform by hand, plus there's also variations in the wire itself that have to be taken into account too.

So as long as you get achievable accuracy, your doing well. And accuracy is good.

 

[MacTechVpr]

@MacTechVpr, I'll take achievable accuracy over unobtainable precision.

As winding with constant tension which is evenly applied is nigh on impossible to perform by hand, plus there's also variations in the wire itself that have to be taken into account too.

So as long as you get achievable accuracy, your doing well. And accuracy is good.

I've actually worked with quite a few people over 6 years and very early on to my surprise the precision of the human hand amazed me. It's readily observable that once you reach the point of adequate elongation turns will cease to separate. The wind will remain coherent on it's own. No tweaking, no raking and no rocket science required. You now have a wind rigid enough to benefit from rapid precise and internally stable enough to achieve a very consistent oxidation. There is an observable repeatable consistency attainable by doing so that is not present in standard or spaced coils.

I wouldn't say it if I couldn't do it. I believe proof is in the imagery.

Tehnsioned Contact Micro Coil, MacTechVpr

• MacTechVpr
• Jun 25, 2015
• coil contact tensioned

As for variations in the wire, strain by elongation mitigates some of those surface imperfections in wire Ø as they are themselves minute. Much as one would flatten dough with a roller. Even so, you're right and even tensioned micros develop grey zones at times from imperfect wire but they are less common and quickly yield to oxidation. When persistent, tensioning has proved a worthy diagnosis tool for serious deviation in the diameter (or turn-to-turn incongruity of diameter from inconsistent tension, as you mentioned). That is, you throw it out and wind a better one in less than 30-sec's.

What's important to me isn't trying to persuade anyone one way or the other. I simply wish more folks try and achieve this simple goal. I believe from the results working with so many satisfied users over the years that the benefits are worth the very short learning curve to achieve it. In fact, making a less than "accurate" coil may perhaps be more effort for many overall and in the long run.

You get the resistance that you make.

Good luck Mordicai, and all.

 

[HigherStateD]

I've actually worked with quite a few people over 6 years and very early on to my surprise the precision of the human hand amazed me. It's readily observable that once you reach the point of adequate elongation turns will cease to separate. The wind will remain coherent on it's own. No tweaking, no raking and no rocket science required. You now have a wind rigid enough to benefit from rapid precise and internally stable enough to achieve a very consistent oxidation. There is an observable repeatable consistency attainable by doing so that is not present in standard or spaced coils.

I wouldn't say it if I couldn't do it. I believe proof is in the imagery.

Tehnsioned Contact Micro Coil, MacTechVpr

• MacTechVpr
• Jun 25, 2015
• coil contact tensioned

As for variations in the wire, strain by elongation mitigates some of those surface imperfections in wire Ø as they are themselves minute. Much as one would flatten dough with a roller. Even so, you're right and even tensioned micros develop grey zones at times from imperfect wire but they are less common and quickly yield to oxidation. When persistent, tensioning has proved a worthy diagnosis tool for serious deviation in the diameter (or turn-to-turn incongruity of diameter from inconsistent tension, as you mentioned). That is, you throw it out and wind a better one in less than 30-sec's.

What's important to me isn't trying to persuade anyone one way or the other. I simply wish more folks try and achieve this simple goal. I believe from the results working with so many satisfied users over the years that the benefits are worth the very short learning curve to achieve it. In fact, making a less than "accurate" coil may perhaps be more effort for many overall and in the long run.

You get the resistance that you make.

Good luck Mordicai, and all.

What are your thoughts on tools like the curo cooler, that attempt to keep tension up, or is your method far superior?

 

[MacTechVpr]

What are your thoughts on tools like the curo cooler, that attempt to keep tension up, or is your method far superior?

There are two methods for imparting shape in metals. One is "forming" which essentially is bending (what a coiler does). Coiled forms can be made appearing to be fully touching but are merely in very close contact.

The other method is strain (tension, or elongation in this case). Unlike forming which may leave micro gaps, strain forces the surfaces together so they can't be any closer. Tension actually evens out the internal crystalline structure of the wire, improving it's performance. The consistent resulting coil shape oxidizes more readily and uniformly at low voltage which locks in that stability, form (rigidity) and behavior.

Is it work? Yeah. Every bit as much as using a coiler. But I think having seen so many folks of varying skills make these that the results are more predictable and repeatable.

And as I keep reminding folks, you can use strain to make stable spaced winds as well. Although not with the concentration of output (and compact presentation to airflow) that a closed contact coil achieves.

Hail me anytime if you try.

Good luck.

 

[Mordacai]

@MacTechVpr, if somebody made something that uses elements of a lathe, a pickup winder / coil winder, was manual, small and could cover 1mm to let's say 10mm (bigger than anyone would use, hopefully). They could make a fair amount of money.

 

[MacTechVpr]

@MacTechVpr, if somebody made something that uses elements of a lathe, a pickup winder / coil winder, was manual, small and could cover 1mm to let's say 10mm (bigger than anyone would use, hopefully). They could make a fair amount of money.

Have had the same idea for a small black box. Changes in gauge and ultimate resistance are challenging.

Really do believe we humans have an advantage in precision. Certainly tooling could do it but I think pricey. Depends on the volume of demand per machine. But consider just how many of us vape at exactly .8Ω say. What would be required of a machine (not human operated) with the kind of versatility to satisfy the breath of preferences we have. We're talkin $$$. I believe winding approaches are a natural gift that will always keep us vaping our best regardless of what others may think we like. Doesn't matter how accurately you wind, but the best you can do for you. Rebuilding is our vape freedom.


Good luck.

p.s. There was a physicist on board who published specs and prints for a fairly sophisticated mech powered jig just after strain winding was introduced on super_X_drifters thread. It can be done. An effort was made on the Tensioned Micro thread for a more sophisticated approach. Over-shooting the ideal elongation point is easy with mechanicals, thinning wire too much. It not only increases res towards the level of a lower gauge but drives wire quite hot, even to the point of leads heating equiv to turns.

 

[YorkMan]

Hey I had a ME course like this!

 

[Mordacai]

True @MacTechVpr, that's why I am thinking old school manual mechanical for simple coils only. Could possibly be done reasonably cheaply with some ingenuity and off the shelf components.

Something that can make complex coils would probably be best computer controlled, as it could reduce costs compared to making it old school mechanical (either manual or powered). As mechanical would be complex and complex usually means expensive. Either way it would be expensive.

 

[YorkMan]

I still can’t believe the enhanced flavor I’m getting with this second coil set up. I was starting to think that all the talk of flavor that I have been reading is bs or from people with super palates. This is more enjoyable that I thought it was going to be.

 

[AngeNZ]

I still can’t believe the enhanced flavor I’m getting with this second coil set up. I was starting to think that all the talk of flavor that I have been reading is bs or from people with super palates. This is more enjoyable that I thought it was going to be.

Do you feel like you've just walked on the moon? I did after my first successful RTA build It wasn't pretty at all, but vaped like a winner

 

[YorkMan]

Yes this vaping experience is way more than I ever expected. That build looks much better than my first one!

 

[HigherStateD]

Yes this vaping experience is way more than I ever expected. That build looks much better than my first one!

Looks better than my first attempt as well. Now I mostly do redonkulous modern art, and preheat and temp control to moderate the lunacy.

I have ventured back to mtl, and am not quite sure I can work 28ga SS to anything near vapable. Modern art holds it's shape sooo easily.

 

[YorkMan]

Wow! Send me one of those!

 

[HigherStateD]

Wow! Send me one of those!

That's my mech build. Geekvape juggernaut SS316L wire, 2mm ID, Ohm's out at 0.14 cold. It's stupid how easy it is to form.

 

[YorkMan]

Y’all are gonna really like this one!

 

[KurtVD]

Great, I have a 2.5 spool to wrap on. Based on first experience and previous advice I gotta trim the wick width to 7.5mm to get it through without distorting the coil? I can do that.

I always had a tendency to try and stuff to much cotton into my coils, which made the wicking a dreadful experience (seriously), a bit like you describe it. Only the last two months I have realised that the vapour is just as good if I use less cotton, but the wicking is so much easier! Also, you will see that it's going to be really hard to remove the cotton in a few days, when you want to change the wick without installing a new coil. In my experience, it's usually slightly harder to remove it than it was to insert it.
Bottom line, use less cotton, at lot less. I try to make the cotton glide through the coil, with just a bit of resistance. Obviously it also depends on how much cotton you need for your tails, but with a 3mm coil, you should be fine.

 

[YorkMan]

Interesting, I didn’t use much cotton on this one at all. I was trimming a shoelace and I used the trim instead! Probably not quite enough.

 

[HigherStateD]

Interesting, I didn’t use much cotton on this one at all. I was trimming a shoelace and I used the trim instead! Probably not quite enough.

Maybe a touch more in the shoulder on the left, but a little less on the one on the right. Bet it Vapes well though.

 

[Mordacai]

@YorkMan, tail on the left is looking a little short compared to the one on the right. But you're certainly getting better.

Here's a photo of my SS316L TC build on an Exvape Expromizer V4 (2.5mm ID, 0.34mm round wire, 7 spaced wraps), forgive the grubby appearance due to use due to trying to refine the wicking.

 

[HigherStateD]

Pardon the less than ideal coil shape, but the wick looks good(to me) and vapes well.
First is dry, then wet.