Five Pawns Brings Out Legal Big Guns, Cloud 9 Removes Testing Results
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We've topics about this already. 
Also bringing lawsuits against competitors is just bollocks imo.
Atm we've CL9s results and the "official" 2014 reports of 5p. The huge issue here as i see it, is that they knew their values are slightly higher than desirable, they claimed they're free from such products. (based on 2014 report.) Once tested from another company and it shows way way higher values they dig their heads in the sand for a long while, deleting fb comments etc.
And now when they finally made an official statement they threathen the company.
All in all this is just hurting us vapers in the long run, giving the FDA ammunitions for "regulations".
There's discussions about this in the e-juice section and in the dimitri topic here in general.
Also bringing lawsuits against competitors is just bollocks imo.
Atm we've CL9s results and the "official" 2014 reports of 5p. The huge issue here as i see it, is that they knew their values are slightly higher than desirable, they claimed they're free from such products. (based on 2014 report.) Once tested from another company and it shows way way higher values they dig their heads in the sand for a long while, deleting fb comments etc.
And now when they finally made an official statement they threathen the company.
All in all this is just hurting us vapers in the long run, giving the FDA ammunitions for "regulations".
There's discussions about this in the e-juice section and in the dimitri topic here in general.
Congrats on shooting yourself in the foot, 5P.
My half-bottle of Castle Long will be my last...
(Not like I wasn't planning that before they sued, don't care much for false advertising...)
My half-bottle of Castle Long will be my last...
(Not like I wasn't planning that before they sued, don't care much for false advertising...)
I don't really have a legal opinion (IANAL and all that) but I look at it this way.
Acme Pickles sells their pickles to Piggly Wiggly.
Acme claims their pickles are gasoline-free.
Piggly Wiggly tests the pickles sold to them by Acme, and finds them to actually contain gasoline, and informs their customers.
Acme now sues Piggly Wiggly for telling their customers about the gasoline.
Something doesn't seem right.
Acme Pickles sells their pickles to Piggly Wiggly.
Acme claims their pickles are gasoline-free.
Piggly Wiggly tests the pickles sold to them by Acme, and finds them to actually contain gasoline, and informs their customers.
Acme now sues Piggly Wiggly for telling their customers about the gasoline.
Something doesn't seem right.
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Flavorless is the best thing for anyone who's overly worried about the juices. And you/they can DIY some flavors from companies that provides what their essences contains. In that way you know exactly what you're vaping.
Perfect analogy IMO.
From the article (numbering of the list is done by me):
1 - FDA is looking to provide that. To make sure vaping is as safe as it can be.
2 - FDA is seeking such requirements.
3 - FDA is going for this. Affordability is less relevant than safety. Can't survive in the new regulated market? Sucks to be you.
4 - FDA has this covered.
5 - FDA will cover the US standardization and hopefully the world will comply. Resistance is futile.
Good to know "we" are on the same side as FDA proposed deeming.
1 - FDA is looking to provide that. To make sure vaping is as safe as it can be.
2 - FDA is seeking such requirements.
3 - FDA is going for this. Affordability is less relevant than safety. Can't survive in the new regulated market? Sucks to be you.
4 - FDA has this covered.
5 - FDA will cover the US standardization and hopefully the world will comply. Resistance is futile.
Good to know "we" are on the same side as FDA proposed deeming.
I suggest you to listen to this interview.
FDA barely knows how an ecigg works. How should they deem what is safe or not?
"3 - FDA is going for this. Affordability is less relevant than safety. Can't survive in the new regulated market? Sucks to be you."
Atleast in sweden this means that all companies out there atm will go bankrupt. Since it cost about 10 grand if not more to test EACH juice. Altho us swedes got bigger worries since FDA approved won't mean anything for us due the EU directive. So the cost-effectivness might differ in the US (To test liquids etc)
Also atleast in swe, regulated market would = Big tobacco.
Anyway listen to this interview and u'll see that FDA isn't to be trusted atleast in my opinion.
Classic ad hominem reasoning.
I don't know what standards if any should become the norm in our industry, but you are dismissing what the blog writer has proposed by claiming that's exactly what the FDA wants to do.
I think our community would be better served if you argue for or against the standards above, never mind what the FDA wants to do.
Arguing for the standards is arguing for FDA regulation.
Or can you name another body with the legal authority and resources to regulate this industry? One with the legal ability to punish those that do not comply with the standards that have been proposed? After all, you can't enforce standards if everyone is allowed to do what they want with impunity, right?
Ya, and this weekend untold houses WILL burn down because they have made fireworks safe and sane. LMFAO.
Now send the Acme pickles to 3 different labs, lab one shows gasoline, lab two shows no gasoline or any other contaminants, lab three shows mouse droppings & belly button lint but no gasoline.
If you are Acme and know and can prove there is no way gasoline contamination occurs at your facility, what then...
Acme buys all the ingredients used to make pickles from the same place every other pickle maker does. Odd how a competitors pickles doesn't contain gasoline, or , do they?
Then the question is, WHAT IS the standards? Why do we need our "big brother" to watch over us?
Atleast i can speak for the EU regs and those are riddic, we will be back to the stone-age of vaping, and the BT making the juice. Because it's all about the money.
And EU is worse than what FDA wants to regulate. And if you check the interview i posted with DR.f it clearly shows that FDA has no clue about vaping at all atm. Why do so many put trust in them of what's safe or not?
And as it stands atm, NOONE knows the truth of what is safe or not. Nor will we know until about 10-20 years of studies. Just like with tobacco.
Although the studies that's out there is speaking in our favor. But it can never be safe as FDA wants it to be. Even when it's safer than smoking.
Regulations such as x juice can only contain y % of that might be good on paper. But we still don't know what kind of % that's safe or not. Especially comparing to cigarettes.
We don't realy know if diketones is bad yet, in the ammount we're inhaling. It might possibly be, but we can't tell for sure. Sure it would be better without all of these. But why do we need a "big brother" to watch over us?
Sry for the big rant, i've just no trust in the FDA. They have the money needed for studies, yes. But will they do it correctly and unbiased? I highly doubt it.
Money and corruption plays a huge part in this.
Listened to part of the interview. Feel free to draw my attention to part you think is most relevant to the debate at hand. For surely, not all of it is.
It's a lot of money to test juice for all known or possible things that could be at plausibly harmful levels. I would think the crowd that favors transparent testing for AP/DA would favor this. For them, it is one thing and perhaps the only thing. For FDA, it is many things, which some consumers / perhaps majority of mass public, will deem rational and worthwhile. If you can't comply, that will suck for survival of your company. But apparently some vapers are very okay with vendors fronting 100% of the costs to appease their inflated concerns.
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