Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing.

[peraspera]

Please humor me

Can someone please provide a link or links which contain the alleged email answers from 5P where they state NO Diketones in our juice?

Thanks in advance.

It is against ECF rules to post emails without the express permission of the sender. Someone on Reddit posted the email they got from five pawns in response to a query about diketones in their juices.

 

[godfatherI]

I've been vaping for 3+ years now and I'm very particular about suppliers / diacetyl / AP. I always ask before ordering. I had asked FP via email about diacetyl and AP in their liquids before I ordered and got an email from Rodney saying their juice had none. That and all their BS about best juice / quality sold me.

When I heard about this and after seeing their test results, I asked for a refund on 2.5 bottles of juice I had left from my last order. They asked me to call them, which I did. The only offer was to be put on a list for their new juice line that they note will be reformulated, but their statement on their website says nothing about their new line being diacetyl or AP free.

To me, this is a 100% unacceptable response. Nothing to be done, I guess, but to dump the juice (which I did). As a result, I will NEVER have anything to do with this vendor in the future.

To me, its one thing to sell juice without knowing. It's another to sell juice and tell people something that you know is false.

Blah . . . wankers . . .

 

[Mr.Mann]

I've been vaping for 3+ years now and I'm very particular about suppliers / diacetyl / AP. I always ask before ordering. I had asked FP via email about diacetyl and AP in their liquids before I ordered and got an email from Rodney saying their juice had none. That and all their BS about best juice / quality sold me.

When I heard about this and after seeing their test results, I asked for a refund on 2.5 bottles of juice I had left from my last order. They asked me to call them, which I did. The only offer was to be put on a list for their new juice line that they note will be reformulated, but their statement on their website says nothing about their new line being diacetyl or AP free.

To me, this is a 100% unacceptable response. Nothing to be done, I guess, but to dump the juice (which I did). As a result, I will NEVER have anything to do with this vendor in the future.

To me, its one thing to sell juice without knowing. It's another to sell juice and tell people something that you know is false.

Blah . . . ....ers . . .

My mother always told me, "be careful of what you put in writing." I guess that advice wasn't unique to me -- and I clearly didn't listen! LOL

 

[aikanae1]

I've been vaping for 3+ years now and I'm very particular about suppliers / diacetyl / AP. I always ask before ordering. I had asked FP via email about diacetyl and AP in their liquids before I ordered and got an email from Rodney saying their juice had none. That and all their BS about best juice / quality sold me.

When I heard about this and after seeing their test results, I asked for a refund on 2.5 bottles of juice I had left from my last order. They asked me to call them, which I did. The only offer was to be put on a list for their new juice line that they note will be reformulated, but their statement on their website says nothing about their new line being diacetyl or AP free.

To me, this is a 100% unacceptable response. Nothing to be done, I guess, but to dump the juice (which I did). As a result, I will NEVER have anything to do with this vendor in the future.

To me, its one thing to sell juice without knowing. It's another to sell juice and tell people something that you know is false.

Blah . . . ....ers . . .

I saw their response to diketones questions by talking about their new PG free line. Huh, what ere they thinking? I was really hoping that was a marketing, pr error and not serious. Not addressing concerns is the worst thing a company can do.

Someone asked, "what would you do?" I think I'd ask for samples to be returned for further testing. Depending on the levels, I might suspend sales and if the samples I tested also gave extreme results, issue a recall all while reassuring customers the company was doing everything possible to find the cause and take corrective action.

I'd do that even if it put the company in debt because that's the way I'd want to be treated as a customer. I wish Eleaf had of done the same with their exploding 50w devices. Eleaf blamed "counterfiets" and that's BS.

This is an area of vaping that deserves some clean-up.

What saddens me about 5p is that they appeared to be at the forefront of advocacy funding.

 

[Lessifer]

Has that terms and conditions page always been there on the age verification page, on the 5P site?

 

[kates]

Has that terms and conditions page always been there on the age verification page, on the 5P site?

It must be new - it wasn't there a week ago when I posted a couple of questions on their info page. (They are still waiting for moderation)

 

[godfatherI]

I need to stop thinking about this, but one more. At: AgeLock they say the following:

"To satisfy any consumers who are looking for a line of e-liquids that are completely diacetyl and AP-free, this summer we are introducing a new PG-alternative line of vapor liquids that will deliver the same legendary flavor profiles that Five Pawns is known for, while offering an alternative to people with PG sensitivity. The new line of vapor liquids will also solve the flavor problem for those who have sacrificed taste in pursuit of greater vapor production."

The first clause of the first sentence and the next clause are unrelated. PG-alternative has nothing to do with juice being diacetyl and AP free. Its a completely misleading because implies that PG is the reason that juice has diacetyl and AP. Worse, it makes it seem like they are actually doing something (which, maybe they are), but what they are doing re: diacetyl and AP (if anything) has nothing to do with the new PG free line they are releasing.

If I were a new vapor and had no clue, then what they wrote could make me feel better. I'm not, and it just makes me feel like they are trying to continue a deception.

Again, Ugh . . . wankers . . .

Done now.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I need to stop thinking about this, but one more. At: AgeLock they say the following:

"To satisfy any consumers who are looking for a line of e-liquids that are completely diacetyl and AP-free, this summer we are introducing a new PG-alternative line of vapor liquids that will deliver the same legendary flavor profiles that Five Pawns is known for, while offering an alternative to people with PG sensitivity. The new line of vapor liquids will also solve the flavor problem for those who have sacrificed taste in pursuit of greater vapor production."

The first clause of the first sentence and the next clause are unrelated. PG-alternative has nothing to do with juice being diacetyl and AP free. Its a completely misleading because implies that PG is the reason that juice has diacetyl and AP. Worse, it makes it seem like they are actually doing something (which, maybe they are), but what they are doing re: diacetyl and AP (if anything) has nothing to do with the new PG free line they are releasing.

If I were a new vapor and had no clue, then what they wrote could make me feel better. I'm not, and it just makes me feel like they are trying to continue a deception.

Again, Ugh . . . ....ers . . .

Done now.

Feel better, you are not alone. Check...

Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing. | Page 18 | E-Cigarette Forum (#1)

Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing. | Page 18 | E-Cigarette Forum (#2)

 

[bky16]

Couldn't find the details of testing result. Is Queenside safe ? I still got half a bottle to go.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

This is the Canadian Trade Industry's association (ECTA) recommendations for retailers.
Anything between ND and 100 of AP requires disclosure, Anything above 100ppm should not be sold.
Your queenside is 3.5 times higher than their maximum allowed.

Ecta's chart:

 

[Pinggolfer]

I need to stop thinking about this, but one more. At: AgeLock they say the following:

"To satisfy any consumers who are looking for a line of e-liquids that are completely diacetyl and AP-free, this summer we are introducing a new PG-alternative line of vapor liquids that will deliver the same legendary flavor profiles that Five Pawns is known for, while offering an alternative to people with PG sensitivity. The new line of vapor liquids will also solve the flavor problem for those who have sacrificed taste in pursuit of greater vapor production."

The first clause of the first sentence and the next clause are unrelated. PG-alternative has nothing to do with juice being diacetyl and AP free. Its a completely misleading because implies that PG is the reason that juice has diacetyl and AP. Worse, it makes it seem like they are actually doing something (which, maybe they are), but what they are doing re: diacetyl and AP (if anything) has nothing to do with the new PG free line they are releasing.

If I were a new vapor and had no clue, then what they wrote could make me feel better. I'm not, and it just makes me feel like they are trying to continue a deception.

Again, Ugh . . . ....ers . . .

Done now.

Isn't this what it says?

By clicking "I agree," entering this site or purchasing products from Five Pawns Inc. you certify and agree that you are over 18 years of age and that products purchased from Five Pawns Inc. are to be used solely by persons over the age of 18. You agree that no claims about safety, health benefits or uses for the products were specifically stated by Five Pawns Inc.. You assume all liability for proper use of the products purchased from Five Pawns Inc.. Five Pawns LLC will not be held liable for any personal and/or property damage, illness, injury or financial loss caused by the use of the products or inability to use the products purchased from Five Pawns Inc.. Products sold by Five Pawns Inc. have not been reviewed by the FDA and are not intended to treat, diagnose, prevent or cure any disease. Comments/reviews posted by visitors or customers of Five Pawns Inc. or associated websites do not represent the opinion of Five Pawns Inc. or its employees or representatives.

 

[kates]

By clicking "I agree," entering this site or purchasing products from Five Pawns Inc. you certify and agree that you are over 18 years of age and that products purchased from Five Pawns Inc. are to be used solely by persons over the age of 18. You agree that no claims about safety, health benefits or uses for the products were specifically stated by Five Pawns Inc.. You assume all liability for proper use of the products purchased from Five Pawns Inc.. Five Pawns LLC will not be held liable for any personal and/or property damage, illness, injury or financial loss caused by the use of the products or inability to use the products purchased from Five Pawns Inc.. Products sold by Five Pawns Inc. have not been reviewed by the FDA and are not intended to treat, diagnose, prevent or cure any disease. Comments/reviews posted by visitors or customers of Five Pawns Inc. or associated websites do not represent the opinion of Five Pawns Inc. or its employees or representatives.

It does - very wise of them to have added this disclaimer in the last few days.

 

[Wow1420]

Isn't this what it says?

By clicking "I agree," ...

Once you click through the T&C, try godfather's link again, or cut 'n paste his link. Then you'll should see the "test results" page being discussed.

 

[Racehorse]

It does - very wise of them to have added this disclaimer in the last few days.

Even though it amounts to a hill o' beans, just like those thinking LLC is a way to avoid personal liability.

There is plenty of case law on these things.

There is a REASON the "big players" in the marketplace have gone DAP free.....NJOY, etc. instead of relying on "creative" legal blurbs......

 

[Visus]

Its truly sad a company with a great future and legacy ahead cannot resolve these issues.
I did want to try 5P super glad I did not..
That Disclaimer is hardcore..

 

[Pinggolfer]

This is the Canadian Trade Industry's association (ECTA) recommendations for retailers.
Anything between ND and 100 of AP requires disclosure, Anything above 100ppm should not be sold.
Your queenside is 3.5 times higher than their maximum allowed.

Ecta's chart:

This is very interesting as ECTA shows Castle long as having no DA and 80 AP under the limits while Cloud 9 shows Castle long as having 70 ppm DA and 900 AP. Five Pawns shows Castle long as have no DA and 75.7 AP. 3 tests by 3 labs and 3 different results. I did email Dr F and in his words. Well, there is some acetyl propionyl in there. Not extremely high for someone consuming average amounts (3-4ml per day).

 

[Wow1420]

This is very interesting as ECTA shows Castle long as having no DA and 80 AP under the limits while Cloud 9 shows Castle long as having 70 ppm DA and 900 AP. Five Pawns shows Castle long as have no DA and 75.7 AP. 3 tests by 3 labs and 3 different results. I did email Dr F and in his words. Well, there is some acetyl propionyl in there. Not extremely high for someone consuming average amounts (3-4ml per day).

On one of the other threads, it was mentioned that steeping possibly increases the amount of DA and AP as a chemical reaction between precursor substances in the flavor components. That could explain the variation between the different test results. I'd really like to see someone do some testing to show if this really does occur.

 

[zoiDman]

On one of the other threads, it was mentioned that steeping possibly increases the amount of DA and AP as a chemical reaction between precursor substances in the flavor components. That could explain the variation between the different test results. I'd really like to see someone do some testing to show if this really does occur.

I would like to see that Also.

But what I am Very Surprised with is Why no one else has Tested Five Pawns e-Liquids to Confirm or Deny the Claims made by Five Pawns/Cloud9.

 

[Wow1420]

I would like to see that Also.

But what I am Very Surprised with is Why no one else has Tested Five Pawns e-Liquids to Confirm or Deny the Claims made by Five Pawns/Cloud9.

I'll be really surprised if anyone else cares to risk a legal battle with 5P by publishing any more test results.

Besides, 5P's own results are bad enough, what's to be gained by proving even higher levels?

 

[zoiDman]

I'll be really surprised if anyone else cares to risk a legal battle with 5P by publishing any more test results.

Besides, 5P's own results are bad enough, what's to be gained by proving even higher levels?

There is just Something Wrong when Retailers/3rd Parties are afraid of Testing an e-Liquid to ascertain its Ingredients.

It Doesn't Speak well to the way that Five Pawns does Business. Or the Level of Transparency the e-Cigarette market has when it comes to what Consumers are Putting into their Lungs.