Flavor disappearing with 6W or more power

[Almarma]

Hello,

I was not sure where to start the thread, but as it's very e-liquid related, I'll start it here. I recently got a new Vamo, with VV (Variable Voltage) and VW (Variable Wattage) capabilities. I like to use VW, as I can change my coils and keep having the same vaping experience. But recently I discovered one thing: as I lower the watts, I get less vapor, but more taste !! I'm using 2.8 ohms coils home made for my Vivi Nova, but I have the same problem with 3.1 and 2.4 ones. I use to vape RY4 flavor from Hangsen at 6W, and I was feeling that in the mornings, I had more taste, and after some vapes, the taste went down, and some times I couldn't even feel any taste at all. Recently I tried another Cola flavor (from Decadent Vapor), just to taste a different one. And with this one, I realized that, over 5.5W, the flavor dissapears and it begins to taste metallic. So I stay below 5.5W. The bad thing is that I have less vapor, and it isn't funny. I like to see a lot of vapor, and I wonder how is it possible that some people vape with up to 7 or 7.5W power. Is it because the e-liquids? Is it because the wire I'm using? I'm using nichrome 0.2mm. It's the only one I have right now.

Have anybody else experienced the same thing? I've searching the forum and didn't find any other info about it.

Oh, I forgot to tell, that I'm using aromas and mixing them at 10-15% with Inawera bases (both "dirty neutral 12mg" and pure PG and VG bottles)

 

[dam718]

6W seems awfully low to me... I personally like a warm vape, so I run my coils at anywhere from 8-10W... Anything below 7 feels like I'm smoking an ultra light, and I get no satisfaction at all...

Some juices react differently to varying levels of heat. I have some fruity flavors that I like to vape at lower heat levels (Around 8W) and tobacco flavors I like to vape higher, around 10W.

Just for giggles I just tried my current tank at 6W... Very subdued, very little flavor, hardly any vapor at all. Kinda nasty really... Crank it up to 10, and it's perfect...

I guess my point is here, that what you like is what's most important, and that's exactly why we have variable wattage and variable voltage devices.

Back when it was 3.7 fixed voltage, and everything was 3 ohms... That's what you got...

But now, you can adjust to what makes you happy

As far as wire goes, I use either 32AWG A-1 Kanthal (I Haven't tried nichrome), and wrap fairly consistent 2.5 ohm coils. Or, I'm using standard resistance XL Boge cartos, which measure out around 3 Ohms. But really, that shouldn't matter much...

Perhaps you are having a wicking problem, not so much a coil problem?

What wicking material are you using?

 

[dam718]

Might also have some cold spots in your coils? I'd check that too!

 

[unloaded]

Sounds like wicking problem to me too. It's probably better in the morning because the wick has had all night to soak up juice and its properly saturated. Once you start vaping if the wick can't keep up the dry coils start to glow and give you the metallic taste. I'd try wrapping the coils a little looser. Also have you notched the silicone cap where it meets the wicks? Most likely one of those two areas are restricting your wicks.

edit: One more thing it could be, are you using nonresistance legs for your coils? If not they'll get hot and give an off taste.

 

[Almarma]

Hi! Thanks for your answers. Wow!! from 8 to 10W!!!??? I just tried now to have an idea of the feeling, and after just the second drag the taste is horrible! The wick is a 3mm silica wick from HealtCabin. I also own another one from other vendor, so I'll try with that one. Yesterday I did a new coil using a needle, because with the older one I was getting nasty dry drags, maybe because the wire was too tight. Now it's more wet, I can take several drags without pauses, but keep having this problem with high power.

How can I check the cold spots? I turn the wire 5 times over the wick to make 2.8 ohms coils (sometimes 4, to make 2.6 ohms ones), and I try to keep the same distance between them (as close as possible, but without touching each other).

 

[Almarma]

One more thing it could be, are you using nonresistance legs for your coils? If not they'll get hot and give an off taste.

No, I'm not, but it doesn't taste like rubber. It taste metallic, and the flavor from the e-liquid totally disappears! It becomes like water with metal.

I've tried to cut a very tiny triangle on the silicone cap, as seen on PBusardo tutorial, just to see if it works, but don't feel any difference. Just a bit of smoke inside the tank, meaning that some air is coming inside. What about using two 3mm wick? Is it weird?

I'm having this idea right now:



Only one wick comes out from each side, but inside, with the coil, there are two wicks. Maybe this makes it more wet, and more vapor will come, and maybe it will be more temperature tolerant... Just guessing, I think I'll try this right now

 

[CASEACE79]

Yeah 6 watts is really low. I vape between 13 and 15w in a genesis atomizer and get hardly if any flavor loss. I'm not very well versed in vivi novas so please forgive my ignorance here but what you're talking about sounds like a short to me. In a genesis atty when you get a short you get a really metallic taste. Also if you are over wicking you can get flavor and vapor loss too but it sounds more like a short to me.

 

[Almarma]

Tried. Not good. Very difficult to keep the coil at the end of the wick without falling apart. When it falls, the taste is pure metal . Horrible.

But during the test, I realized that the other kind of wick I had before, has a very different taste than the one from HC. So I'm thinking now that my problem is the wick. I never did it before, but I'm considering now to boil the wicks to try to remove any taste coming from it, and do more testing. Weird thing, as HealtCabin is a very popular shop, and they must sell tons of wick. Strange that I'm the first complaining.

 

[Almarma]

Thank you, but I don't think it's a short. If so, the resistance would be very low and the Vamo has short protection and even doesn't work below 1.2 ohms. And it works fine and I can check and read the ohms values and they are correct. I'm more and more considering moving to an AGA-T to have something consistent to vape and create fog in my living room

 

[dam718]

If you're using silica wicks, the best way to check for cold spots in your coil is to screw the bottom assembly with the newly wound head and wick on to your PV. Leave the tube and top cap off. Remove the rubber cover from the top of the head, so you can see the coil and wick. If the wick is totally dry dab a bit of juice onto the coil and wick. Now you wanna dry burn until the coils start glowing. You want all the wraps of the coil to glow with the same intensity. If they are not you can use a straight needle to separate the coils from each other. I don't have much of a method really, just keep separating the coils until the space between them looks even, and they all glow bright orange. I also try to keep the coil on the wick as close the the middle of the head assembly as I can, don't like it touching either side.

The trick you're trying with the two wicks, try this instead... Use 1 long wick to drape over either side, and another very short wick over the top of he long one. It would accomplish the same thing you were attempting with the two wicks in your illustration. I believe that shorty wick is referred to as a flavor wick.

 

[dam718]

Oh, you know what I forgot to mention... Before I wrap my coils I use a small brazing torch to heat up the resistance wire I'm gonna be using. It's supposed to burn off oils from manufacturing and such.

I would imagine these impurities burn off after a couple of vapes, but I'm not too sure, I've never NOT brazed my wire... I also always boil my wick, no matter what material it is. I've tried a lot too... Cotton square braid candle wick, cotton yarn, cheesecloth, gauze, cotton balls... I always go back to silica...

 

[Almarma]

Very interesting tips! I'll try both things: the flavor wick, and to boil them, because I already burn the wire before doing the coil (I read that somewhere else and it works. It also helps to blend it easier. Thanks for the reminder anyway).

I'll hopefully try it tomorrow and will post the results here. Thanks everybody for the help!

 

[XfooYen]

If you're using Vivi Novas then 6-8 watts is where you want to be at. You'll get burnt at high wattage for sure. The others recommending high wattage, are using genesis attys which run very good when they're hot. Juice plays a factor in this as well. Some juice likes cooler temps while others taste better with more power behind them. YMMV. You have to experiment. You could have a wicking issue. Don't forget to tilt and swish when your tank is below 2/3 full. Another thing that could be happening is the dreaded "flavor block". Drink plenty of water. Change flavors. Brush your teeth with cinnamon toothpaste. Vape less often. There's a lot of suggestions to combat flavor block but the best is to stay ultra-hydrated and wait it out.

 

[unloaded]

I think it's the hot legs giving you the metal taste. If any part of the resistance wire is dry and glowing you'll get that metallic taste. I can't stand it, reminds me of how a wet dog smells. If you're torching your wire go ahead and torch your silica wick while you're at it. I do that every time on my RBAs and bypass the breaking period. Another thing that might be happening, is your Vamo in RMS mode, No2? If not, it is probably overshooting what you have it set at. You can find videos on how to get rid of the hot legs for the Vivi Nova, if you don't have NR wire you can double the resistance wire by twisting it together for the legs, it's not perfect but usually lowers the resistance enough to keep them from glowing.

Here's a walk through on the NR legs, you might have a slightly newer version but it should be close enough:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ystems/295410-vivi-nova-rebuild-tutorial.html

 

[CASEACE79]

You could also switch to SS mesh instead. It's supposed to taste cleaner and there is debate that it's healthier also. Here's a video on how to do it. The only thing I would do differently is to torch it with a butane torch.(can find either at a hardware or cooking store)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UcPZcxW9tTk

 

[Almarma]

Another thing that could be happening is the dreaded "flavor block".

Wow!! I'm pretty sure now I have a flavor block!! I've been reading other threads about it, and I've the symptoms: not drinking so much water, acid feeling staying on my tongue... I'm trying to vape less today, and drinking a lot of water. Sometimes, I can feel the taste for less than one second, then the flavor disappears from my mouth and becomes acid, but I can smell the flavor some more time around me, and I can smell the flavor from the drip tip. It's really amazing, I never realized that could happen. That's why I was blaming the wick and the coils, because I never could imagine that a "flavor block" could happen!


Anyway, the problem with the watts is still there, but I shall wait until I get my flavors back into my tongue . Maybe I get a bad taste because my tongue is getting weird flavors over 6W. Let's see...


Thank you for all the info!!

 

[Almarma]

You could also switch to SS mesh instead. It's supposed to taste cleaner and there is debate that it's healthier also. Here's a video on how to do it. The only thing I would do differently is to torch it with a butane torch.(can find either at a hardware or cooking store)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UcPZcxW9tTk

Thanks! I'll try with SS mesh, but later, when I get a new AGA-T. I think it will be my next experiment . Vivi Nova's place to experiment is really tiny

 

[Almarma]

Update on my problem:

After some days drinking A LOT of water and vaping less, I realized that it was true, I was suffering "Flavor block". I'm suffering it yet, but less and less. And it's pretty amazing how the body get used to some things: after thinking of it, and trying to observe my tongue, I started to notice like a tiny "burning" feeling on it. I'm feeling it yet, but less and less. I also tried other flavors, and I can feel them much stronger than RY4. Is crazy how, RY4, being the strongest flavor I have, is like vaping water, but with others, I get a lot of taste. Now I'm using a 555 kind, and it's really good.

About the problem with the watts, it's there yet. Well, with the 555 I can raise it to 6W, which is an improvement, but not anymore. Anyway, I'm using now an old 2.3 ohm coil which I made some weeks ago. Yesterday I did very carefully a 2.6 one, with the loops very very close to each other, but without touching, and not strangling the wick (I've read some info about that: the closer the loops, the hotter they get in less time. And it makes a lot of sense to me). Let's see...

Oh, and I want to thank everybody who answered me trying to help. Thank you very very much for your comments and ideas!

 

[CASEACE79]

A buddy of mine was having some similar issues with his vivi nova tanks. The problem isn't the wattage being used but more of a wicking issue. What he did to fix the issue was to remove the rubber cap with the metal tip in it and hasn't had an issue since. Hope this helps.

 

[Almarma]

A buddy of mine was having some similar issues with his vivi nova tanks. The problem isn't the wattage being used but more of a wicking issue. What he did to fix the issue was to remove the rubber cap with the metal tip in it and hasn't had an issue since. Hope this helps.

Hi!

Thanks for the ideas! Finally I fixed it! With double wick! I cut a bigger hole on the top's rubber, and used two full length wicks, with four loops of nichrom, getting a 3,3 ohms coil. That way, I warranty a wet coil always, and it works really really well. I also made another one with just 3 loops, getting a 2,6 ohms one, and it also works very good. Another thing I tried to see how well it is working, was to vape outside (I live in the north of Norway). When it's very cold, the liquid gets thicker, and I got dry burnt puffs very often. Now, with double wicks, with a loot of space to pump liquid to the coils, it works really really good. I think this is very interesting, and I've realized it works in a much more efficient way. When we vape, we need wet coils, to boil the liquid. Then, when it's hot and boling the liquid, the coil needs a fast supply of liquid to keep boiling it. Otherwise, we get burnt taste.

Here is the new coil with two 3mm wicks. The same as usual, but using two wicks. Easy to do. Four loops here gave me 3.3 ohms.


Here are the cuts I did on the rubber on the top of the head.


And here it's all assembled. Bigger place, no constrictions on the wicks, but also no open holes, so there is not flooding at all:



So I'm really really really happy with the performance now:
- I get better flavor
- Much more vapor (I can set it up to 6.5W now without problem)
- The same experience with each drag, even with a lot of consecutive ones
- No problem vaping inside or outside with cold weather: less affected by the thickness of the liquid
- Less tilt-dependent experience too. This is fantastic too!
- Easier to build: Because I need less loops to make the coil, I have more room on the sides, so there are less chances to have a short.

I seriously recommend everybody out there using Vivi Novas to try the double wick! I was thinking on buying an AGA-T to have a better experience. Now I'm not so sure . Maybe I just buy some more Vivis to have several flavors on them to avoid the flavor block.

Thank you everybody for the suggestions and ideas!