Flavor Molecules from Perfumer's Apprentace (TFA)?

[AlexTM]

This stuff is exactly what is in the finished flavours we vape, that does not particularly worry me.

However, with amounts like this, it is extremely simple to badly overdose a flavour, and believe me, that is not fun. I played around with a few of them, until exactly that happened to me. If my guess is correct I accidentally used 100 times as much as I wanted. Nothing serious happened - except that my taste buds were screaming and I haven't been able to vape this flavour again.

So, if you use them, make sure you don't use too much - even if that means diluting them twice or thrice.

 

[eikon]

Vaping some Aldehyde C-14 PEACH and OMFG!!! It's GOOD! made a 1% flavor concentrate and added it one drop at a time to 8ml of blank 6mg juice, got to 3% may be a little strong, I'd say maybe around 2-2.5% would be perfect.

 

[jwinkles]

I've ordered several molecules...and have been hesitant to use.... I have btw used the raspberry ketones.
This is what I have found this far...
It enhances my blueberry tobacco blend (all ingredients of my blends this far are tfa)
Using the small glass droppers, 5 drops in a 5 ml works well, 10 drops had a "drying" mouth feel effect.....
I am about to try and expand my experiments into the peach and coconut...

 

[michaelsil1]

If you take a real good look on the site, it states that the items in the Perfumers supplies are NOT meant for inhalation use. Many of these are harmful and not meant to be consumed internally. Someone else posted a week ago and had some really bad effects. We looked up many of those and if you do a search they do state many deadly to adverse affects. Please use only the supplies on the The Flavours Apprentice part of the site.

Even some of the Flavours in the Flavour section have an asterisk and states those are flammable. Electricity heats up the coil and you dont want a flammable ingredient on there.

I dont want to come off as a PITA, but if you harm yourself and the media finds out we could all loose our privilege to vape.

DOnt hate me, Im looking out for all of us.

Good advice, things are hard enough without adding extra complications.

 

[dannyv45]

Imagine you didn't assume I had no knowledge of chem. makeup.

If I need a degree in Latin to pronounce things, I steer clear.
You vape that, tell me how it goes.

Oh, water is a chem. because it is not a singular molecule? We are stupid, tell us more.

No reason to get nasty, it is a simple fact that the chemicals Borednl listed, along with many more, are the basis for flavorings, not just TFA but all brands. Simply put, if you vape flavored juices you vape these chemicals.

Guess the MOD's agree look at MF DOOM's status "Moved On" Good for the MODS we don't need negitivity like that here.

 

[dannyv45]

After reading this thread it does raise some concerns and a bit of confusion. On TPA's site they have flavor molicules listed in the flavor apprentice section

Perfumers Apprentice - Molecules used in Tobacco Blends
After reading this thread my confusion is "Are these safe or not" I've bought the AP and EM from this section. Should I continue to use these?

The sections seem to be seperated into 2 catagories "Aroma molicules" and "Flavor Molicules" so I naturally though being that they are flavor molicules there safe to use.

 

[eikon]

they are not safe as they come, they are pure aroma molecules and need to be heavenly diluted.

Acetanisole
base note
Sweet Anise Vanilla Powdery
CAS # 100-06-1
FEMA # 2005
Can use up to 35 ppm in a flavor concentrate
Can use up to 5% of total concentrate

It recommends up to 35ppm (parts per million) or 0.0035% in a flavor concentrate (for flavoring food). 5% of total concentrate is for perfume.

ALL VAPE JUICES, with the exception of unflavored, are using food flavorings (derived of compounds that are also used in perfume) and use them in concentrations much grater than anyone would use them in food.

Like I said earlier, I made a 1% solution of Aldehyde C-14 (Peach) and at 3% was too strong.

 

[eikon]

After reading this thread it does raise some concerns and a bit of confusion. On TPA's site they have flavor molicules listed in the flavor apprentice section

Perfumers Apprentice - Molecules used in Tobacco Blends
After reading this thread my confusion is "Are these safe or not" I've bought the AP and EM from this section. Should I continue to use these?

The sections seem to be seperated into 2 catagories "Aroma molicules" and "Flavor Molicules" so I naturally though being that they are flavor molicules there safe to use.

the site is separated into TPA- TFA, on the TPA side the category is "Aroma and Flavor Molecules" TPA has bases, TFA has ready mixed concentrates made from the bases.

AP & EM are mainstays of e-cigarette liquid, telling a juice maker not to use EM would be like telling a chef not to use salt.

 

[dannyv45]

the site is separated into TPA- TFA, on the TPA side the category is "Aroma and Flavor Molecules" TPA has bases, TFA has ready mixed concentrates made from the bases.

AP & EM are mainstays of e-cigarette liquid, telling a juice maker not to use EM would be like telling a chef not to use salt.

So What I get out of this is it's OK to use flavor molecules from the TFA side (TFA link dropdown/molecules used in tobacco blends) which there seems to be many of in that section, but not OK to use Aroma molecules from the TPA side.

 

[michaelsil1]

So What I get out of this is it's OK to use flavor molecules from the TFA side (TFA link dropdown/molecules used in tobacco blends) which there seems to be many of in that section, but not OK to use Aroma molecules from the TPA side.

That's what I get as well.

 

[Scubabatdan]

If there is any question you can call Linda, I did many moons (Years) ago and have used the following flavor molecules recommended by Linda:
Eugenol
Guaiacol
Phenylacetic
Trimethyl
Phenyl Ethyl

So when in doubt ask.
Highly recommend the Eugenol if you like the Djarum black clove ciggys
Dan

 

[michaelsil1]

If there is any question you can call Linda, I did many moons (Years) ago and have used the following flavor molecules recommended by Linda:
Eugenol
Guaiacol
Phenylacetic
Trimethyl
Phenyl Ethyl

So when in doubt ask.
Highly recommend the Eugenol if you like the Djarum black clove ciggys
Dan

Good to know, what the heck are the rest of those

 

[flintlock62]

dammit Jim, I'm an engineer, not a chemist!

If there is any question you can call Linda, I did many moons (Years) ago and have used the following flavor molecules recommended by Linda:
Eugenol
Guaiacol
Phenylacetic
Trimethyl
Phenyl Ethyl

So when in doubt ask.
Highly recommend the Eugenol if you like the Djarum black clove ciggys
Dan

 

[eikon]

Guaiacol sounds intriguing.

On a side note, if you do decide to play with these, handle the open bottles with care. You really, really don't want to spill any, the raw material makes the flavor concentrate smell weak. The smell would likely linger for months, if not years.

 

[Scubabatdan]

Guaiacol sounds intriguing.

On a side note, if you do decide to play with these, handle the open bottles with care. You really, really don't want to spill any, the raw material makes the flavor concentrate smell weak. The smell would likely linger for months, if not years.

Amen brother!

The Guainacol smells like wood smoke in a bottle, very potent!
Dan

 

[Scubabatdan]

Good to know, what the heck are the rest of those

Phenylacetic - Dirty socks... don't recommend LOL
Trimethyl - Smells like a light dkang tobacco, earthy would be good in a tobacco mix
Phenyl Ethyl - Fruity/Flowery scent

Hope that helps,
Dan

 

[michaelsil1]

Phenylacetic - Dirty socks... don't recommend LOL
Trimethyl - Smells like a light dkang tobacco, earthy would be good in a tobacco mix
Phenyl Ethyl - Fruity/Flowery scent

Hope that helps,
Dan

I want some dirty sock perfume!

Fruity/Flowery in a nice way?

 

[Scubabatdan]

I want some dirty sock perfume!

Fruity/Flowery in a nice way?

Yes, in a nice way
Dan

 

[Borednl]

Hmm, just out of curiosity, I did the calculation on necessary dilution with pure guaiacol, done in a practical way and using fractions to keep it simple. As a flavor molecule, it's recommended at 2PPM or 1/500,000 dilution. I measured 38 drops to a ml using a dropper I have with PG just now. Assuming guaiacol drops the exact same amount as PG from the same dropper.. (I could mix it at .1ml with something like .9 ml of PG to start out with if I wanted to ensure the drop size is more accurate, but that would complicate my equation below and possibly ruin a syringe.)

10ml bottle = 380 drops.
1/380 <-- First 10ml bottle mix (1 drop Guaiacol, 279 PG drops)
1/38 of above solution = 1/14,440 <-- second bottle (use near 1ml PG or 37 drops, with 1 drop of above solution)
14,440 / 500,000 = 0.02888 (percentage of final solution needed to arrive at 2PPM)
if there are 380 drops in a 10ml bottle, then..
380 x 0.02888 = about 11 drops needed in a 10ml bottle to reach 2PPM. (or almost .3ml, depending on how you want to measure it - Though I imagine e-liquid would probably need to be more potent, so probably up to 1ml)

For Acetanisole, it's recommended at 35PPM, or about 1/28,571th's
1/380 <-- First 10ml bottle mix (1 drop Acetanisole, 279 PG drops)
380 / 28,571 = ~0.0133 Percentage needed to arrive at about 35PPM
So, if we have 380 drops in a bottle
0.0133 x 380 = ~5 drops

Or another way to look at it,
1/380th = first solution
then how many 1/380th solution is needed in 380 drops to reach 1/28,571th's dilution?
1 drop would be 1/380th of the first solution, or 1/144,400th's solution
If we divide 144,400 by 28,571, we come to about 5 drops out of 380

To check our math:
5/380 (five drops of the first diluted solution) x 1/380 (each being 1/380th of the final solution) = 5/144,400 or to simplify close to PPM, 7/7 x 5/144,400 = 35/1,010,800 (close enough to 35PPM for me)

 

[Scubabatdan]

Hmm, just out of curiosity, I did the calculation on necessary dilution with pure guaiacol, done in a practical way and using fractions to keep it simple. As a flavor molecule, it's recommended at 2PPM or 1/500,000 dilution. I measured 38 drops to a ml using a dropper I have with PG just now. Assuming guaiacol drops the exact same amount as PG from the same dropper.. (I could mix it at .1ml with something like .9 ml of PG to start out with if I wanted to ensure the drop size is more accurate, but that would complicate my equation below and possibly ruin a syringe.)

10ml bottle = 380 drops.
1/380 <-- First 10ml bottle mix (1 drop Guaiacol, 279 PG drops)
1/38 of above solution = 1/14,440 <-- second bottle (use near 1ml PG or 37 drops, with 1 drop of above solution)
14,440 / 500,000 = 0.02888 (percentage of final solution needed to arrive at 2PPM)
if there are 380 drops in a 10ml bottle, then..
380 x 0.02888 = about 11 drops needed in a 10ml bottle to reach 2PPM. (or almost .3ml, depending on how you want to measure it - Though I imagine e-liquid would probably need to be more potent, so probably up to 1ml)

For Acetanisole, it's recommended at 35PPM, or about 1/28,571th's
1/380 <-- First 10ml bottle mix (1 drop Acetanisole, 279 PG drops)
380 / 28,571 = ~0.0133 Percentage needed to arrive at about 35PPM
So, if we have 380 drops in a bottle
0.0133 x 380 = ~5 drops

Or another way to look at it,
1/380th = first solution
then how many 1/380th solution is needed in 380 drops to reach 1/28,571th's dilution?
1 drop would be 1/380th of the first solution, or 1/144,400th's solution
If we divide 144,400 by 28,571, we come to about 5 drops out of 380

To check our math:
5/380 (five drops of the first diluted solution) x 1/380 (each being 1/380th of the final solution) = 5/144,400 or to simplify close to PPM, 7/7 x 5/144,400 = 35/1,010,800 (close enough to 35PPM for me)

Monkey wrench time, the guaiacol I got from TFA was 10% guaiacol not sure if that is 100% or 10% on their website.
Dan