flavoring stability

[pineappledan]

In my never-ending quest for the best root beer flavor, I continue to encounter the same problem. When I first get a flavor, I give it the sniff test to determine if I will like it, then mix up a 10ml sample batch. I've narrowed my selection down to 2 "favorites"nestop olde tyme root beer, and root beer from a supplier banned from ecf due to their supply of pure nicotine. I like both of these flavors a lot, but...
Both flavors fade really fast for me. One of them was stored in a refrigerator and 1 oz was removed for active mixing. The first ounce was pretty good, but by the second ounce, the flavor tasted more like rubbing alcohol(no alcohol listed as ingredient, but it doesn't mean it's not used in the flavoring). This liquid was stored in a plastic bottle. The other, the onestop brand, was stored in a glass, light blocking bottle, and again, the first ounce is good, but the second is bland(no alcohol flavor)
I always shake well before use, flavorings never come in contact with other chemicals, and the product is less than a month old before it loses it's flavor qualities.
I do have flavor west rootbeer and that flavor never seems to go bad, but it's not the root beer flavor I want.
So, do some flavors oxidize at extremely fast rates and this is normal? Has anyone had similar experiences with other flavors?

 

[AzPlumber]

Okay, first question, why do you know what rubbing alcohol tastes like?
I've seen several flavoring manufacturers recommend storing flavoring in cool, dry, dark conditions but not in the refrigerator.

 

[pineappledan]

Okay, first question, why do you know what rubbing alcohol tastes like?
I've seen several flavoring manufacturers recommend storing flavoring in cool, dry, dark conditions but not in the refrigerator.

Recovering alcohlic
Yea the refrigerator thing was kinda a bad idea but worth shot. I must also state that the batch consistency for that flavor stinks. I purchased a new bottle of it(it's really cheap) and the flavor is lackluster and I have a feeling it'll soon taste like it's older brother. The onestop flavor was not refrigerated and stored in a cool, dry place.

 

[subwayaznm]

I used to keep mine in a Plastic Bin that I had under my Kitchen Sink. And never noticed a flavor change in the Flavors. DOn't know the science behind it but that is what I did for a couple of years

 

[AzPlumber]

I think root beer is one of the plastic tank crackers so probably contains highly volatile flavoring molecules. Storage in glass would be best, allow temperature of bottle to acclimate to ambient before opening and open only briefly while mixing.

 

[subwayaznm]

I think root beer is one of the plastic tank crackers so probably contains highly volatile flavoring molecules. Storage in glass would be best, allow temperature of bottle to acclimate to ambient before opening and open only briefly while mixing.

Yes and might have Alcohol in it as well. Which would dry the oils out of the plastic.

 

[satchvai]

You can try Real Flavors Root Beer Float. 100% VG and steeps out strong.

 

[pineappledan]

You can try Real Flavors Root Beer Float. 100% VG and steeps out strong.

I'll absolutely try it! I'll try all root beer flavors. I go through the stuff like candy and I'm willing to try them all. I like root beers with a little "mouth hit" to them

 

[IDJoel]

I think root beer is one of the plastic tank crackers so probably contains highly volatile flavoring molecules. Storage in glass would be best, allow temperature of bottle to acclimate to ambient before opening and open only briefly while mixing.

That's a good thought about the volatile compounds. If that is the case; I would also suggest (besides the glass bottle) to use a solid cap vs. a dropper cap. The soft rubber of the dropper is quite porous and will allow the volatiles to escape quickly.

 

[pineappledan]

This is all good stuff. The onestop bottle is the best one I currently own. It's dark blue glass with a solid cap, but has a plastic dropper flush with the neck, kinda like a vodka bottle but for drops, not ounces. I think its called a euro dropper.

 

[IDJoel]

This is all good stuff. The onestop bottle is the best one I currently own. It's dark blue glass with a solid cap, but has a plastic dropper flush with the neck, kinda like a vodka bottle but for drops, not ounces. I think its called a euro dropper.

Euro dropper is correct. I doubt that would be a problem. I know one of our resident chemists (Kurt) prefers, and uses those routinely, for both long, and short, term storage and use (and he is big on controlling oxidation and loss of desired volatiles). So feel fairly confident saying that is not the problem.

I have read other posts from DIYers that have mentioned there ARE certain flavors that just don't last long (age well) once mixed into a recipe. But I can't recall any such comment in regards to that applying to the unmixed concentrated flavoring. Bummer!

You mentioned previously that you draw off about and ounce for a working portion. I wonder if the resulting headspace is what is causing your problem? Perhaps, if you broke the larger sized bottle down into smaller bottles and minimized headspace, that might slow/eliminate the problem?

 

[pineappledan]

Euro dropper is correct. I doubt that would be a problem. I know one of our resident chemists (Kurt) prefers, and uses those routinely, for both long, and short, term storage and use (and he is big on controlling oxidation and loss of desired volatiles). So feel fairly confident saying that is not the problem.

I have read other posts from DIYers that have mentioned there ARE certain flavors that just don't last long (age well) once mixed into a recipe. But I can't recall any such comment in regards to that applying to the unmixed concentrated flavoring. Bummer!

You mentioned previously that you draw off about and ounce for a working portion. I wonder if the resulting headspace is what is causing your problem? Perhaps, if you broke the larger sized bottle down into smaller bottles and minimized headspace, that might slow/eliminate the problem?

That is an interesting point. I think I'm going to invest in 5 or 6 glass euro dropper bottles because I think they're cool, the colored ones block light, and maybe keeping the air out could help preserve flavor. Thanks

 

[IDJoel]

That is an interesting point. I think I'm going to invest in 5 or 6 glass euro dropper bottles because I think they're cool, the colored ones block light, and maybe keeping the air out could help preserve flavor. Thanks

Just a thought. I could be completely full of dookie too! If you try; I would love to hear your results.

 

[pineappledan]

Just a thought. I could be completely full of dookie too! If you try; I would love to hear your results.

I'll take full of dookie ideas at this point.

 

[dannyv45]

What you describe is quite interesting. I've never experienced a flavoring fading that quickly. I just bought a 30ml bottle of the OSD Olde tyme root beer so I'll have to watch out for that and follow this thread closely.

 

[pineappledan]

Ok, quick update. I tried shaking my flavoring, for a ridiculous amount of time. Like 5 minutes. And I am getting more flavor out of it. That's the one stop flavor, the other one didn't do as well, but this is good news for me!

 

[dannyv45]

I usually shake my flavors before using but I guess I'll have to give the root beer an extra good shake before using. I have a lot of OSD flavors and many over 4 months and none seem to have a fade issue. It may be just the root beer so I'll just have to try it when it arrives.

 

[Kurt]

I have found many flavors in plastic will fade with time. I try to keep my bulk flavors in glass now, and yes, for some I use the euro dropper bottles from here:

Aromatherapy Dropper Bottles | Wholesale | Specialty Bottle

Pick you color, then size. More size options with amber. Might be cheaper than getting them from an ecig vendor. I like them because they can't spill with the eurodropper inserted, and I use a syringe for dispensing. Dark glass is not important, I don't think, and there are lots of good options for bottles online.

The more volatile flavor molecules, which are generally small and "high frequency" notes, tend to escape through plastics over time, leaving a vague nondescript flavor after months or years. I think fridge is fine in a glass bottle, as long as its sealed well and you bring it to room temp before opening, to avoid water absorption.

If you must use plastic bottles, PET is probably the best for longevity, although there are plasticizers in PET plastic that will leach into the flavor. LDPE (normal e-liquid dropper bottles) will be pretty porous to O2, but it does not have plasticizers.

 

[dannyv45]

Hi Kurt,

What the OP was saying is the root beer flavorings (Not the mix) fade after only a month. Which I found very surprising. Of the 2 the OP tried they were from different manufactures and one came bottled in glass (OSD) which is the flavor I just received (Bottled in glass w/ euro dropper). I have not tried the flavor yet but fading in such a short amount of time is very unusual. I'll mix some this weekend and see if there's an issue here.