Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?

[Leaded50]

other thing...how serious do you feel about the 2,3 – pentanedion - (acetyl propionyl) ?
I see some says this are similar to t the danger of diacetyl in inhaling...

 

[Racehorse]

dr. ann hubbs video from smokey joe's article about diacetyls. She discusses DA/AP in e-cigarettes

I won't vape it.

That said, everyone needs to decide on their own risk. When making decisions, I consider the actual consequences, i.e. magnitude of the risk. (as in, are you going to lose 1 eye or 2 eyes if you do x, y, z). IF there is a risk with dap, the consequences can be pretty um.....severe.

In cigarettes, I had no choice because I could not take apart a cig to take out the bad stuff. It was either contine smoking, or quit. With eliquid, I can. That is why it is called an avoidable risk. For me, its easy to avoid and I am more hard line about it, as I remember Dr. F. saying DA and AP don't "belong" in eliquid.

vaping some tasty eliquid is not a fair trade off for my lungs, so that is just how it is for me.

It's a tough decison that each person must make, and my intent is only to share my own thoughts. I think it's a real bad idea for other people to assign little numbers to things and tell me what ppm is acceptable. Esp. if tey are not scientists.

 

[tierrataz]

Early days I learned liquid with dairy, butter, or bakery notes gave unpleasant respiratory distress. I delved into DIY to continue vaping. Tobaccos had been "safe" for me until I tried new flavorings last year and again a recent as the past week. Not all, but a fair number gave the same respiratory response. If it is diketones I am reacting to, it would be nice to have that disclosure.

I would not be surprised if the flavor houses take the stance we are using their products off label. Hats off to Linda at TPA for her research. I believe as others, that the source of the flavoring is the logical point of testing. If they indeed are single molecules that I imagine require chemical analysis to ensure the batch is correct, adding diketones to said analysis should not be difficult.

 

[proteckt3d]

Hy everyone, I don't know if this is the most apropiate place to ask this but was skimming this thread and wanted to ask, just to make sure I understood the scaling right. If one drop of AP/DA is 0.05ml, than that would be 5000ppm in 10 ml of e-liquid? and 10000ppm in 5 ml?

 

[mcginnis314]

All for vaping. All for health. But take out diketones....and 1 year from now everyone will find "ingredient blah blah blah" is not good for our lungs.

 

[LoveVanilla]

All for vaping. All for health. But take out diketones....and 1 year from now everyone will find "ingredient blah blah blah" is not good for our lungs.

Sure, no argument and many will agree. Vaping is new with lots of unknowns. Meanwhile we know diketones present significant inhalation risk to humans, to the point they should never be present without full disclosure. Perhaps a good analogy would be lead in paints -- there were a lot of ...... off parents when lead paint was unknowing used on children's toys.

 

[Capt.shay]

we know diketones present significant inhalation risk to humans, to the point they should never be present without full disclosure.

I don't see how full disclosure is going to make the diketones any safer. If it's sweet and taste good assume they are in there. They probably are. Even if a maker says they aren't. Sometimes even if they have been tested. Accept the risk or don't. It is your choice to vape and your choice to choose those kind of flavors.

 

[stevegmu]

I don't see how full disclosure is going to make the diketones any safer. If it's sweet and taste good assume they are in there. They probably are. Even if a maker says they aren't. Sometimes even if they have been tested. Accept the risk or don't. It is your choice to vape and your choice to choose those kind of flavors.

It is creamy, custards, buttery flavors which are an issue, not sweet flavors, per se...
I can choose not to vape if there is disclosure, whether voluntary, or through regulation...

 

[Capt.shay]

It is creamy, custards, buttery flavors which are an issue, not sweet flavors, per se...
I can choose not to vape if there is disclosure, whether voluntary, or through regulation...

Even fruit flavors often have a touch of cream or custard to take the edge off. I really feel that a vapor should understand that they are probably in there. It would make a lot more sense to me to have juice makers label as diketone free, if they are, like they do with many foods and certain content like fats, carbs, trans fats, etc. It will cost a lot of money to have this stuff tested to prove it is diketon free and they will have to charge more accordingly. With this method, people who are really concerned can be reassured without having to tax the rest of the vaping community just to prove what we already know. If it is sweet, and taste good, chances are there are diketones present.

 

[stevegmu]

Even fruit flavors often have a touch of cream or custard to take the edge off. I really feel that a vapor should understand that they are probably in there. It would make a lot more sense to me to have juice makers label as diketone free, if they are, like they do with many foods and certain content like fats, carbs, trans fats, etc. It will cost a lot of money to have this stuff tested to prove it is diketon free and they will have to charge more accordingly. With this method, people who are really concerned can be reassured without having to tax the rest of the vaping community just to prove what we already know. If it is sweet, and taste good, chances are there are diketones present.

Where have you heard this? From vendors who shamelessly use diacetyl? ProVape e liquids don't have diacetyl and they have a lot of fruity flavors...

 

[Rossum]

Where have you heard this? From vendors who shamelessly use diacetyl? ProVape e liquids don't have diacetyl and they have a lot of fruity flavors...

Kudos to Provape for publishing test results for many of their liquids! I'd respect them even more if they published the test results for their Caramel flavor. Notice there's no test report on that page? I wonder what that means?

 

[SmokinRabbit]

Where have you heard this? From vendors who shamelessly use diacetyl? ProVape e liquids don't have diacetyl and they have a lot of fruity flavors...

My local vendor (Fluid Vapor) tested a lot of their in-house flavors and removed any from their menu that contained diacetyl. This happened almost a year ago. They even had a hand-out about it for a while initially. I haven't specifically asked, but they introduced some new flavors very recently and I assume they tested them. They seem very on top of the whole thing.

 

[stevegmu]

Kudos to Provape for publishing test results for many of their liquids! I'd respect them even more if they published the test results for their Caramel flavor. Notice there's no test report on that page? I wonder what that means?

I don't know. You should ask in the ProVape forum. They usually respond to things like that pretty quick...

 

[Capt.shay]

Where have you heard this? From vendors who shamelessly use diacetyl? ProVape e liquids don't have diacetyl and they have a lot of fruity flavors...

Many mellow fruits with cream and yogurts etc. Just read through the recipes listed here or the many threads on fruits. Also, they can occur naturally and they can also develop in the bottle even if none were added initially. A bottle can test clean when it was made and then develop them as they steep. This is directly from TFA (a major flavor supplier) "Also, Diacetyl can be found naturally in certain fruit extracts, so there is also the potential for trace amounts to be found in some natural extracts."

Recently the good Dr. independently tested several national brands and even a company that prided itself on being diacetyl free tested positive. It is a much more complicated issue then you would believe. There is a ton of info on this site and you can find out a lot more info by doing a little reading.

Bottom line is, vaping is not good for you. If you want to be healthy don't vape. Your a fool to believe that you are going to consistently inhale foreign matter in to your lungs and not eventually have some negative effects. But, it sure beats smoking!!!!!

 

[stevegmu]

Many mellow fruits with cream and yogurts etc. Just read through the recipes listed here or the many threads on fruits. Also, they can occur naturally and they can also develop in the bottle even if none were added initially. A bottle can test clean when it was made and then develop them as they steep. This is directly from TFA (a major flavor supplier) "Also, Diacetyl can be found naturally in certain fruit extracts, so there is also the potential for trace amounts to be found in some natural extracts."

Recently the good Dr. independently tested several national brands and even a company that prided itself on being diacetyl free tested positive. It is a much more complicated issue then you would believe. There is a ton of info on this site and you can find out a lot more info by doing a little reading.

Bottom line is, vaping is not good for you. If you want to be healthy don't vape. Your a fool to believe that you are going to consistently inhale foreign matter in to your lungs and not eventually have some negative effects. But, it sure beats smoking!!!!!

There are probably trace amounts of arsenic in every batch also, but trace amounts are a lot different than, say, what Suicide Bunny or 5Pawns tested at. There is also such a thing as avoiding certain suspect flavors also. Yogurt, really?

 

[Capt.shay]

There are probably trace amounts of arsenic in every batch also, but trace amounts are a lot different than, say, what Suicide Bunny or 5Pawns tested at. There is also such a thing as avoiding certain suspect flavors also. Yogurt, really?

We are talking about trace amounts here. Please tell us what the percentages were in suicide bunny as compared to the natural occurring percentages. You have no idea. Trace amounts of arsenic? You just make stuff up and type it and then act as if it is the truth. And, yes Yogurt. Again you have no idea of what you speak. I am done with any attempt at having adult conversation with a poster who just pulls stuff out of his derriere.

 

[stevegmu]

We are talking about trace amounts here. Please tell us what the percentages were in suicide bunny as compared to the natural occurring percentages. You have no idea. Trace amounts of arsenic? You just make stuff up and type it and then act as if it is the truth. And, yes Yogurt. Again you have no idea of what you speak. I am done with any attempt at having adult conversation with a poster who just pulls stuff out of his derriere.

20000 chemicals were found in a study of bottled water... Of course there are trace amounts. The 2 companies I mentioned either falsified or lied about very high amounts in their e-liquids, not trace amounts...
I want some Smakoun flavored e-liquid. Now that would be good, and diecetyl free...

 

[Rossum]

Yep, the concern here isn't about trace amounts. It's about amounts that are orders of magnitude greater than something that would be considered a "trace".

 

[Hoosier]

Sure, no argument and many will agree. Vaping is new with lots of unknowns. Meanwhile we know diketones present significant inhalation risk to humans, to the point they should never be present without full disclosure. Perhaps a good analogy would be lead in paints -- there were a lot of ...... off parents when lead paint was unknowing used on children's toys.

I love this analogy. Mainly because the only company exempted from 3rd party testing of lead is the same company that imported the lead based toys in the first place. Ain't our law makers wise fellows?

 

[ST Dog]

Yep, the concern here isn't about trace amounts. It's about amounts that are orders of magnitude greater than something that would be considered a "trace".

Anything measured in ppm or ppb is a trace amount. If it wasn't a trace amount it'd be reported as a larger unit, like mg or even ug (micrograms).

Nicotine for example is generally not a trace amount.