Found a medical review of vaporizers... this is for a veteran who looks at this area more than I do.
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Well that is interesting since PG is the carrier for the medicine in many athsma inhalers.
Well it's VG that irritates this asthmatic right into not being able to breathe AT ALL. It's like inhaling vaporized glue or tree sap. And I don't think inhaling vaporized echinacea is necessarily a great idea; many plants, such as tobacco! are relatively harmless... until you start breathing in their constituents. Echinacea has such a strong effect on the immune system, I'm not sure that vaporizing it and breathing it is the best way get its value.
Andria
Andria
Oh, I guess that's why IT'S IN MY ASTHMA INHALER! Sorry, I don't breathe in my head, I breathe with my lungs, which cannot handle VG.
Andria
Andria
Well if it wasn't for the medicine in the inhaler the pg would kill you from the throat muscles constricting the reason that it is there it is a way to deliver the meds to the soft tissue and the irratation that occures helps the inflamed area absorb the meds and causes the inhalers to work faster
If your throat burns with vg your coil is burning the juce not vaporizing it
And for the comment about breathing you do breath through your head it is where your mouth and nose are lol (literally I chuckled)
It seems like this whole discussion is about what is in e- liquid (s) and the medical implications
If your throat burns with vg your coil is burning the juce not vaporizing it
And for the comment about breathing you do breath through your head it is where your mouth and nose are lol (literally I chuckled)
It seems like this whole discussion is about what is in e- liquid (s) and the medical implications
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Briefly looked it over. It is a summary and a poorly done summary, at that. The first reference for carcinogens was reference 55: Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes
Link to summary of this reference: Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes -- Goniewicz et al. -- Tobacco Control
"Abstract
Significance Electronic cigarettes, also known as e-cigarettes, are devices designed to imitate regular cigarettes and deliver nicotine via inhalation without combusting tobacco. They are purported to deliver nicotine without other toxicants and to be a safer alternative to regular cigarettes. However, little toxicity testing has been performed to evaluate the chemical nature of vapour generated from e–cigarettes. The aim of this study was to screen e-cigarette vapours for content of four groups of potentially toxic and carcinogenic compounds: carbonyls, volatile organic compounds, nitrosamines and heavy metals.
Materials and methods Vapours were generated from 12 brands of e-cigarettes and the reference product, the medicinal nicotine inhaler, in controlled conditions using a modified smoking machine. The selected toxic compounds were extracted from vapours into a solid or liquid phase and analysed with chromatographic and spectroscopy methods.
Results We found that the e-cigarette vapours contained some toxic substances. The levels of the toxicants were 9–450 times lower than in cigarette smoke and were, in many cases, comparable with trace amounts found in the reference product.
Conclusions Our findings are consistent with the idea that substituting tobacco cigarettes with e-cigarettes may substantially reduce exposure to selected tobacco-specific toxicants. E-cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy among smokers unwilling to quit, warrants further study. (To view this abstract in Polish and German, please see the supplementary files online.)"
Stopped reading or checking after that.
Link to summary of this reference: Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes -- Goniewicz et al. -- Tobacco Control
"Abstract
Significance Electronic cigarettes, also known as e-cigarettes, are devices designed to imitate regular cigarettes and deliver nicotine via inhalation without combusting tobacco. They are purported to deliver nicotine without other toxicants and to be a safer alternative to regular cigarettes. However, little toxicity testing has been performed to evaluate the chemical nature of vapour generated from e–cigarettes. The aim of this study was to screen e-cigarette vapours for content of four groups of potentially toxic and carcinogenic compounds: carbonyls, volatile organic compounds, nitrosamines and heavy metals.
Materials and methods Vapours were generated from 12 brands of e-cigarettes and the reference product, the medicinal nicotine inhaler, in controlled conditions using a modified smoking machine. The selected toxic compounds were extracted from vapours into a solid or liquid phase and analysed with chromatographic and spectroscopy methods.
Results We found that the e-cigarette vapours contained some toxic substances. The levels of the toxicants were 9–450 times lower than in cigarette smoke and were, in many cases, comparable with trace amounts found in the reference product.
Conclusions Our findings are consistent with the idea that substituting tobacco cigarettes with e-cigarettes may substantially reduce exposure to selected tobacco-specific toxicants. E-cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy among smokers unwilling to quit, warrants further study. (To view this abstract in Polish and German, please see the supplementary files online.)"
Stopped reading or checking after that.
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Frak, and here I thought FUD stood for Fraked Up & Dumb.!!!??
All my supplies used to mix DIY juice, don't have any of that, and most are proven beneficial. Also the fiber chosen to wick, and wire used to transmit current, well, they don't have any of that either.
all sounds fraked up and dumb to me, just saying Thinking most of those studies are linked back oh several years ago, where the poly fill on cartomizer's used may have contained traces of all those found chemicals, but to get them to come out, most likely would have to run out of juice and burn your wick, otherwise fluid dynamics would insure no burning would take place.
All my supplies used to mix DIY juice, don't have any of that, and most are proven beneficial. Also the fiber chosen to wick, and wire used to transmit current, well, they don't have any of that either.
all sounds fraked up and dumb to me, just saying
Thinking most of those studies are linked back oh several years ago, where the poly fill on cartomizer's used may have contained traces of all those found chemicals, but to get them to come out, most likely would have to run out of juice and burn your wick, otherwise fluid dynamics would insure no burning would take place.
You're not getting what I'm saying at all; VG doesn't BURN my throat, it shuts my lungs down COMPLETELY.
PG doesn't burn my throat or lungs or anything at all, not even when I first started using it DAILY almost 30 yrs ago.
Please don't presume to tell me what happens in my own body. VG makes me completely unable to BREATHE, and I'm certainly not the only one who has problems with it.
Andria
That is so weird! But I've heard it again and again here.
I'm just the opposite (because I'm a guy? [kidding])
I can't take PG. It makes me cough and irritates my throat. It took me a while to identify the problem. When I switched to VG only DIY mixes the coughing subsided somewhat.
Now, of course, most DIY flavors come with PG as a carrier, which makes completely eliminating PG in DIY quite a challenge. What I have found is that If I add small amounts of distilled water to smooth out or thin [some of] my juices - it works, and sometimes even partially neutralizes the PG that is present in the flavor carriers.
I'm not saying I think I'm "allergic" to PG - just say I've identified it as the ingredient that makes me cough.
Yeah, sometimes I get a little choked up, if I take a particularly big hit, or inhale it just the wrong way or something. Being asthmatic, I had to learn how to inhale *just right* when I was a smoker, actually a fairly shallow inhale, and I have to be a bit careful with vaping too. Naturally I've always taken mouth-to-lung inhales, and it has to be done kinda slowly, so I think I kinda already had the "vaping technique" even as a smoker, just because my lungs wouldn't let me inhale too deeply, or too much, though I did need to slow it down even more, for vaping, to get a decent amount of nicotine.
I'm not really a DIYer too much yet, though I mix some pre-made juices, and add a bit of that "Flash" additive to some sweeter juices so there's a little more throat hit; I have to customize everything I buy, since I do need at least 75% PG, and my normal nic level is 10mg, not one of the standard levels. I've actually been thinking that I need to ease the PG up just a bit more, maybe 78%. I've tried 80% but the vapor was just a *mite* too thin.
With me, for VG, think of paint -- with thick paint, it goes on much more thickly; a 2nd coat of thick paint will even soften thick paint below it, and take FOREVER to dry. VG is so thick that my lungs can't clean it away fast enough to keep it from building up and narrowing my bronchioles, which brings on tightness, wheezing, lack of air, asthma attack. It also gives me a sensation in my lungs like I need to cough up, but nothing moves; I can feel it in there, but it's just a coating, I can't actually cough it out. It's horrible -- it's given me a lot of empathy for my cat, when she's struggling with a hairball.
Andria
You really need to be careful with that fine line you're walking.
I suppose you've identified the juice products that are just right for you. Was probably a quite expensive enterprise.
I guarantee that once you bite the DIY bullet completely, you'll never go back to vendor pre-mixed juices, I never will….
I'm not a control freak normally, and I'm definitely no expert "mix master", but when it comes to stuff that goes into my lungs…..I feel safer KNOWING….
What's the alternative? Smoking cigarettes? Yeah, that was really good for my lungs. NOT.
Not really sure why so many here think I'm doing something "dangerous" by vaping, or by using high-PG -- if it was truly dangerous, would any of us be doing it? Would there be PG in asthma inhalers?
If I don't walk this particular fine line, then I'll smoke. That's all there is to it.
Andria
Ok folks...we aren't enemies with each other in here...
Sit back, take a vape and enjoy the day we have been gifted with
Sit back, take a vape and enjoy the day we have been gifted with
What's the alternative? Smoking cigarettes? Yeah, that was really good for my lungs. NOT.
Not really sure why so many here think I'm doing something "dangerous" by vaping, or by using high-PG -- if it was truly dangerous, would any of us be doing it? Would there be PG in asthma inhalers?
If I don't walk this particular fine line, then I'll smoke. That's all there is to it.
Andria
Whoaa..slow down! All I said was be careful….
Long story short.
2009. My first Journey
Me. Total rookie. I bought some juice (banana I think or coconut), from a somewhat popular/reputable online vendor.
Now this is America, right? Business is business, right?
So who can blame a businessman who gets a super deal on some juice of somewhat dubious origin, and proceeds to make a profit from said juice?
Enter the consumer (me).
I vaped this stuff shortly before bedtime. I didn't like the taste at all, tasted kinda chemical and nasty at the same time, but I was afraid that if I didn't vape it, I'd go outside and smoke a cigarette and "Bam", the wheels would fall off the wagon. Like I said, I was a rookie - short on resources - long on determination to quit smoking. So I vaped it.
When I went to bed that evening, I had some of the scariest, hallucinogenic, nightmares I have ever experienced in my life! I awoke in the middle of the night sweating, headachy with stomach pangs, my heart palpitating and my breathing severely attenuated. My taste buds were actually standing up on my swollen tongue! I cannot recall how I got through that night.
Later the next day, when the symptoms subsided (except the headache), I do remember considering myself lucky to still be alive.
I will never, ever forget that experience.
Moral: Business is Business. End of story.
Yeah, I was sold some 18mg, my first time to a vape shop. Big mistake, but I didn't know that, until it gave me terrible stomach pain and nausea. Next day, I went to another store around here, and got some 12mg. Same story, really, though it took a little longer to hit me. After that I ordered some 6mg, which turned out to be JUST RIGHT, at the time -- since I was still smoking. It was also a really good substitute, taste-wise, for my cigarettes. It wasn't long after that, that I was able to cut down my smoking to zero.
I just don't get all these folks that seem to be scared of PG. I've been inhaling that stuff for 30 yrs, in my asthma inhalers, and it's never given me the slightest problem, other than, yes, it's hygroscopic, which I didn't understand, until vaping made my borderline-dehydration go off the charts and screw up my electrolytes. But I've learned to deal with it with daily coconut water, so that's a non-issue now; VG actually is also hygroscopic; my main problem with it is that it's just too thick. I've tried diluting it with water, but it makes my attys pop too much, so I just stick to about 75% PG, and all's good. I also like a good strong throat hit, and you really can't get that with high-VG -- I had to vape that Virginia I like in a high-VG formulation when MFS was out the PG version, and the taste was fine, but there was no TH at all, which was really unsatisfying, and it really bothered my lungs; I got back to their high-PG formulation as soon as it came back in stock, and within a week my lungs were fine.
Andria
I just don't get all these folks that seem to be scared of PG. I've been inhaling that stuff for 30 yrs, in my asthma inhalers, and it's never given me the slightest problem, other than, yes, it's hygroscopic, which I didn't understand, until vaping made my borderline-dehydration go off the charts and screw up my electrolytes. But I've learned to deal with it with daily coconut water, so that's a non-issue now; VG actually is also hygroscopic; my main problem with it is that it's just too thick. I've tried diluting it with water, but it makes my attys pop too much, so I just stick to about 75% PG, and all's good. I also like a good strong throat hit, and you really can't get that with high-VG -- I had to vape that Virginia I like in a high-VG formulation when MFS was out the PG version, and the taste was fine, but there was no TH at all, which was really unsatisfying, and it really bothered my lungs; I got back to their high-PG formulation as soon as it came back in stock, and within a week my lungs were fine.
Andria
Ok. Seems you've got a handle on it.
Maybe we've experienced/learned through some of those "bad trips".
But on the bright side - we're still here, so we must be doing something right.
Urban Legends: So round, so firm, so fully packed, so free and easy on the draw.
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